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My list was not intended to change anyones mind just to express my points, just out of interest why do you think it is imbalanced? I am not being antagonistic I would like to know, honestly.

because you deliberately listed games that you personally aren't interested in, or worse think are shit. your opinion came across as heavily biased.

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The score should also represent the review writers opinion though.

I never said that discussing them in terms of right and wrong, just that the score shouldn't rely on context to be a dependable method of assesing a game.

Obviously the review will provide more detailed discussion of the same point, but for a game that I know in advance - such as KOTOR 2 - a nine is all I need to see that the writer liked the game. If KOTOR 2 had been given a 4 then I'd need the review to explain what has gone wrong.

The score should be a short-hand way of coming to a snap decision about a games quality. If it requires context then it isn't doing it's job.

To discuss a review of a game you need to read the review. That includes arguing about scores. Scores do have a role to play though, it's just that they are more often than not asked to do more than they are capable of on here.

I totally agree - a review score should represent the review writer's opinion, because it's the text that comes first and then the score when we write, not the other way round. Writing to a score, rather than scoring an opinion, isn't the way to go... it's just unprofessional.

However, you've also summed up what I was trying to say at the end - to discuss a review of a game, you need to read the review. What annoys me (not to any great length... but a mosquito bite can be just as irritating as one from a lion in my mind) are people who go "How can they give it an X? It's worth at least a Y, in my opinion". Yes, you're entitled to an opinion - that's the luxury of being a human being. But ranting about a difference in opinion without knowing the full facts is just pointless.

Anyhoo... had this discussion enough times to know when to stop.

And as far as the Australian version of the mag goes - obviously, it cribs much of its content from the UK version (albeit a bit late, and aside from various localised news stories) but we have nothing to do with its layout, some reviews which are done specifically for the Oz market - usually stuff we've chosen not to review over here because we don't feel it's good enough - and little things like the back page editorial. Strangely, our names don't make it into the back of the mag even though we write most of it... you'd almost think that the bloke in charge of it (can't remember his name off-hand... Michael something?) does it all by himself, wouldn't you? :dry: ;)

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God this thread is a fucking travesty.

As if the poor bastards at GamesTM don't have it hard enough (you know, being magazine journalists outside London), they have to put up with some of the most moronic posts of the week.

I've only ever bought one issue of GamesTM. Wasn't fussed. In the end I knew I really didn't need another games mag other than Edge.

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God this thread is a fucking travesty.

As if the poor bastards at GamesTM don't have it hard enough (you know, being magazine journalists outside London), they have to put up with some of the most moronic posts of the week.

I've only ever bought one issue of GamesTM. Wasn't fussed. In the end I knew I really didn't need another games mag other than Edge.

well i'm sure that will cheer the Gtm staffers up ;)

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As for them wanting to know more about this eagerly anticipated release, i will give them the pro's and cons of what i know so far from reading on here n forums,the web, talking to people who have it and playing it myself.

If your posts are indicative of the advice you're giving out, your ability to offer a balanced viewpoint on this issue is questionable to say the least.

a 10 year old game tarted up and some wee trippy tetris game.

Your argument that its all about TEH GAMEZ and that the real issue is your hate of the Playstation Crowd's simplistic love of all things Sony, sort of breaks down when you blindly knock two fantastic titles. And they'd be fantastic titles on any platform. It reeks of fanboyism and that why you've been rightly called on it. ;)

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The problem is that your original post was solely aimed at denouncing how crap you think the PSP is by unrepresentatively listing some American franchise games. Which you've not played. Which marks you down as an idiot. And then you followed it up by saying "did I touch a nerve" without a question mark. Which makes it a statement. Which means you knew you were trying to aggrevate people. Which marks you down as  a bigger idiot.

The other problem is that deep down the majority of us don't give a flying fuck about what you think, we actually discuss on mature terms what we feel is good on a particular system and what isn't. And this gets clogged up by posts from people such as yourself which consists of poorly-typed drivel. This happens many times, and it's extremely boring. You're also quite misguided if you think an imbalanced list is going to change people's minds.

I'm guessing you bought a PSP then?

I think the whole idea of the original post was saying that the PSP is gonna be more mainstream than the frickin' ford fiesta.

anybody who has worked in the games retail industry will realise that 90% of games players are uneducated morons, skanky old chavs and benifit fraudsters, and it is extremely irritating that they cannot see past sony and their ps2, and soon the PSP.

And whilst I'm joining in with this debate ,its a fact, you have more money than sense if you spent over 300 quid for the sake of a few months on a console that is practically guaranteed to knacker out before it should and a game you cannot fully enjoy because of a language barrier.

and as for the witty comeback of, "you've forgotten the question mark"

that guy should go back to gamefaqs and see if there is a 15 page translation of

'Mega mega denshitsu crystal factory' and do a search for the terms 'grow up'

and if you don't give a flying fuck about what he says, why bother posting?

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I think the whole idea of the original post was saying that the PSP is gonna be more mainstream than the frickin' ford fiesta.

of course it will, but only people considered 'hardcore' have them right now. it's preposterous to suggest that "chav gamers" are all importing PSP's from Japan and playing Lumines or Metal Gear Acid.

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anybody who has worked in the games retail industry will realise that 90% of games players are uneducated morons, skanky old chavs and benifit fraudsters, and it is extremely irritating that they cannot see past sony and their ps2, and soon the PSP.

:D

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its a fact, you have more money than sense if you spent over 300 quid for the sake of a few months on a console that is practically guaranteed to knacker out before it should and a game you cannot fully enjoy because of a language barrier.

that's about the only part of your post i agree with, the rest just reads like a PS2 is the mainstream and sucks rant.

I'll not have that about a machine that brought me Ape Escape 2, Devil May Cry and Ico.

Unless this is all one giant hilarious beard.

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A freind of mine who works in a GAME store has been flashed a PSP by 4 different people.

If they go into game, they ARE chavs.

Its not like importing them is that hard nowadays, you can just walk into CEX and buy one for the right price.

if you take a sample of people who own PS2's and a sample of PSP importers my guess is that the former is considerably less 'hardcore' than the latter. the PS2 market is big enough to incorporate more 'hardcore' or 'arthouse' software into it's lineup. that small(ish) demographic are the ones who are buying PSP's right now, but you believe what you want.

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I'm guessing you bought a PSP then?

I think the whole idea of the original post was saying that the PSP is gonna be more mainstream than the frickin' ford fiesta.

anybody who has worked in the games retail industry will realise that 90% of games players are uneducated morons, skanky old chavs and benifit fraudsters, and it is extremely irritating that they cannot see past sony and their ps2, and soon the PSP.

And whilst I'm joining in with this debate ,its a fact, you have more money than sense if you spent over 300 quid for the sake of a few months on a console that is practically guaranteed to knacker out before it should and a game you cannot fully enjoy because of a language barrier.

and as for the witty comeback of, "you've forgotten the question mark"

that guy should go back to gamefaqs and see if there is a 15 page translation of

'Mega mega denshitsu crystal factory' and do a search for the terms 'grow up'

and if you don't give a flying fuck about what he says, why bother posting?

So much anger...

you do know that anger leads to the darkside don't you :D

Amongst the vitriol and overblown buzzword riddled nonsense you do actually make one good, but fucking obvious point...

That in any media the most popular examples are never the most artistically valid works...

However this is flawed as only the elite within each media dictate which are artistically valid.... so it could be argued as being snobbery

Look at movies.. top of the charts is a load of High-octane popcorn nonsense... All the best films are seen by 3 film students and the beardy art-cinema owner...

Or music... top of the pops is riddled with shite and the best bands sell 14 records to the jounralists of NME who spend their entire lives bemoaning the fact that "chavs" purchase shite music.

Now maybe you could explain why all this gets you frothing at the mouth quite so badly when every other media has exactly the same issue?

I ignored the idiotic points regarding chavs etc as that is just a rather over-simplified of categorising everyone in life...

Everyone who owns PS2/PSP/console you don't like is a chav... if only life were that simple

Again I ask this brutally simple question.

Why the hell do you rage and wail and gnash your teeth so much about a small pile of electronics and who buys it and for how much? Why hate it all so much ... it never hurt you...

I think Ferraris are a waste of time and money... however I don't berate people publically for purchase them or call them names or insist that the makers are the spawn of satan..

Jesus get some fucking perspective ;)

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I think it was actually the developers that brought those games to the ps2, because they would most likely sell shit loads.

well devil may cry 1 did.

ico......hmmm

ape escape 2.....double hmm

anyway

I own a ps2 and love it for some of the exclusives, but you can't deny that the machine was a technilogical sham from its inception, somehow being flaunted as the new generation of hardware when it was only marginally more powerfull than the dreamcast. Its the majority of the owners that piss me off and their total denial that any console is better than it.

the only way the ps2 has sold 75 odd million consoles worldwide is the fact that 50 million of them have disc read errors.

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I think it was actually the developers that brought those games to the ps2, because they would most likely sell shit loads.

well devil may cry 1 did.

ico......hmmm

ape escape 2.....double hmm

anyway

I own a ps2 and love it for some of the exclusives, but you can't deny that the machine was a technilogical sham from its inception, somehow being flaunted as the new generation of hardware when it was only marginally better of than the dreamcast. Its the majority of the owners that piss me off and their total denial that any console is better than it.

the only way the ps2 has sold 75 odd million consoles worldwide is the fact that 50 million of them have disc read errors.

seriously, if you are not joking then you need to take yourself aside and have a word. do you hate CD players because most of the music purchased to play on them is shit ?

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Its the majority of the owners that piss me off and their total denial that any console is better than it.

And you raging about it on public forum pouring out so much vitriol sticks you in roughly the same category as those who you decry!

You've obviously never attempted to rise above it :D

it is the argument and attitude of a 13-year odl so ignore it.

I play the games I like on the system that they are on... I have no preference to a specific system that would be utterly ludicrous...

A system is not crap unless it is technologically inept to the point where decent games are impossible... and I can't think of many machines that fall into that category

Games can be good or crap...

For instance ... every single game on a platform could be utter bollock... it does not make the platform or hardware rubbish....

But if you prefer to think of people who buy Gran Turismo as chavs then feel free... you have the freedom to be as blinkered as you desire

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a you telling me that the ps2 is a technilogical wonder , far superior to that of the gamecube and xbox?

This has to be one of the worst attempts at putting words into someone's mouth I've ever seen.

That, or a massive exercise in point missing.

(...or a comedy account :D)

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maybe I can't rise above it, I love games and I play games, for the gameplay.

But you can't deny the fact that we are soon to be stuck with less gaming formats because of joe public's complete inability to see past the sony branding.

Its the same with bloody, EA, but don't get me started on that.

oops, too late we have, I took my ps2 into work one day and replaced the demo pod with mine, put on the US OPS2 mag demo on it.

60+ people tried it that day

60+ people played need for speed underground 2

not one person played metal gear solid 3

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I feel like the the only sane person in britain at times.

You remind me so much of myself back in 1997 when the Sega Saturn was failing...

Right before I simply got over myself and bought a PlayStation.

Seriously, you're not saying anything here that hundreds of ex-fanboys haven't said a million times in the past.

Saying that, I still suspect you're 'avin' a chuckle.

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I feel like the the only sane person in britain at times.

a you telling me that the ps2 is a technilogical wonder , far superior to that of the gamecube and xbox?

.::: If you can read that in the words above your post, then I think we need to kill this thread quickly.

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