Jump to content
IGNORED

The Rllmuk Metal Thread

shirubagan

By shirubagan
in Music

 Share

Recommended Posts

jonathanhoey

jonathanhoey

Posted
Posted
Well, the pulling apart of it really. It's pretty fucking tiresome. There isn't any band in the world that would make people go to this kind of lengths to rip apart and find fault and generally try to tear it down than Metallica, it's like people WANT it to be shit. And you (universal you, not you you) can argue that "Metallica shouldn't have to resort to these techniques". Well, maybe not, but either fucking enjoy it, or don't. Don't spend hours finding things to fault. I have no idea what some of you are yammering on about, and I'll most likely love it anyway so I suppose this little rant is of minute consequence anyway, but for fucks sake, give it a fucking rest and talk about something else.

Aye, fair enough. In my defence, I don't want to find fault, I want to love it. And for the most part, I do. Some of the solos are awful, though. You'll see what I mean when you listen to it.

As for waiting till Friday, that's also fair enough, but I've already paid full retail for it on pre-order, so I don't feel guilty at all about listening to it now that it's available. -_-

Anyway, no more Metallica comments from me for now, other than to say I hope they do bring these songs out in Rock Band. But that's for another thread really.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Transient Curse

Transient Curse

Posted
Posted
It is, but some of us don't have it till Friday on principal -_- Anyway, yeah, you're right, we should discuss more in here. At the minute it just seems like a witch hunt.

EDIT: to Wah.

Dunno, I think the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive really. Certainly I think it's pretty good, just some complaints about production issues, there are worse examples of autotune (there's some proper laugh out loud ones on Angels and Airwaves first album, and presumably their follow up) but there aren't many albums where you can talk about autotune, drumming, guitar solos, whatever other feature with a group of people all listening to an album at the same time for roughly the first few times. It's not that different to when Discussion has a big topic at the top of the page for a week, just so happens that this is a thread operating like a folder and other topics are getting pushed down for a bit.

As for waiting for friday, Principle, schminciple, I've already paid for it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
moosegrinder

moosegrinder

Posted
Posted
Aye, fair enough. In my defence, I don't want to find fault, I want to love it. And for the most part, I do. Some of the solos are awful, though. You'll see what I mean when you listen to it.

As for waiting till Friday, that's also fair enough, but I've already paid full retail for it on pre-order, so I don't feel guilty at all about listening to it now that it's available. -_-

Anyway, no more Metallica comments from me for now, other than to say I hope they do bring these songs out in Rock Band. But that's for another thread really.

Nonononon, that's not what I meant!

Sigh, I think I'm on me cycle. I'm off home now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SomeNaiveChump

SomeNaiveChump

Posted
Posted

As far as I'm concerned extensive discussion and criticism of an album is great. This just happens to be a massive release right now so everyone is listening to it, and it's getting criticised proportionally. It doesn't help that a lot of the drumming and guitar playing is genuinely horrendous, let alone the production issues.

If you don't want people to criticise you, don't leave terrible way-out-of-time drums and guitar solos which would make most pub-level guitarists hang their heads on your record. Then don't loudness master and autotune your shit til it's practically unlistenable.

It's because there's not enough voices shouting 'this is fucking shit!' that so many albums are still allowed to be released sounding this bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SomeNaiveChump

SomeNaiveChump

Posted
Posted

Autotune is a process which takes natural-sounding vocals and tunes them so that they're perfectly in key as if played on a keyboard. Obvious example is Cher - Believe but it's widely used now. It stands out like a sore thumb because human vocals aren't supposed to sound like consistent, perfectly-tuned synthesised waves which flick happily from perfect note to perfect note with nothing in between.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Transient Curse

Transient Curse

Posted
Posted
Autotune is a process which takes natural-sounding vocals and tunes them so that they're perfectly in key as if played on a keyboard. Obvious example is Cher - Believe but it's widely used now. It stands out like a sore thumb because human vocals aren't supposed to sound like consistent, perfectly-tuned synthesised waves which flick happily from perfect note to perfect note with nothing in between.

Sorry but I don't think that's right, autotune's totally fine to use but when a vocal is significantly out of tune and for a prolonged period that it's use is obvious and problematic. I'd bet it's on most albums now but crucially is used to accurately correct performances which are something like a low number (less than 15, say) cents (hundredths of a semi-tone out of tune) out of tune. Auto tune shouldn't be used to save bad vocals, it's there to improve already good vocals, or should be. The results should be undetectable and will take nothing from a vocal performance.

Cher's believe isn't a product of Autotune, it's a product of a Vocoder, whilst the two are related a vocoder is used to, as you say, allow a vocal to be manipulated via a keyboard and whatever the recorded vocal a new tune applied and to filter the voice.

Autotune will sound similar when set at high, and crucially, fast correction settings but they're not really useable ones unless you're trying to create an effect. Tuning can also be plotted, in a more labour intensive application, to dictate the notes a voice (or instrument) will take.

I agree however that a great vocal performance is what everyone really wants on their recordings. Any time you can hear auto tune at work I always think "Why didn't they send the singer back to the vocal booth for another few passes"

Is this Loudness thing the reason I can't listen to Down II, I loved the first album and couldn't get on with the 2nd due to production issues. The distortion killed it for me.

Could be the shit songs?

:(

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kevvy Metal

Kevvy Metal

Posted
Posted

Autotune is a useful tool. To make tiny little adjustments if required. No one should be able to hear if it's used properly. Unfortunately, some idiot, lazy fucktard engineers go over board with quantising vocals and crush the fuck out of the singers natural vocal inadequacy, thinking it's a bad thing.

Most commercial records sound like they're sung by robots nowadays. bullshit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mars

Mars

Posted
Posted
Toxic Holocaust.

Aye, I heard them Linked off a Municipal Wastes' Myspace page. They sound a little more to the Death Metal side.

I'm loving this Thrash Metal resurgence. It seems to be pushed hard by Earache records. Just about all of these new Thrash bands have records out on Earache.

Municipal Waste. (a bit too punk imo)

Bonded by Blood. (awesome! sounds a lot like Exodus, unsurprisingly)

Violator. (FUCKING awesome)

Evile. (lot like Slayer)

THE ALBUM COVERS!!! :(

capa_chemical_mini.jpg

l_460bef80ce8db07d7c152a000852a699.jpg

BondedByBlood-FeedTheBeast.jpg

lol

Thank you! :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wintermute

Wintermute

Posted
Posted
Without wishing to offend anyone, I wish that there'd be more discussion and debate in the sort of detail that has accompanied this Metallica release. I had thought about how this is a "metal" not "metallica" thread but how it was nice to have regular contributors offering their thoughts on one subject. IMO I think this is what the Music folder should be for, not endless lists which is what most threads are IMO.

Well, I would have thought that Metallica would be one of the few acts on the planet that could garner this kind of discussion in this thread. Metal is a broad church and it'll be a rare occasion where there's a release important enough for everyone to chime in with an opinion. Personally speaking, I could go into quite laborious detail about the records I love and why I love them (erm, or hate, as the case maybe), but my tastes seem to substantially differ from most here so that in-depth discussion doesn't tend to occur. I would imagine that's true to some degree for everyone, we're all at a metal gig but in different mosh-pits. Or something.

I still love reading all your thoughts though, whatever the subject. I've not heard the new Metallica, nor do I care, but the discussion has been interesting regardless.

Or, to summarise: \m/

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SomeNaiveChump

SomeNaiveChump

Posted
Posted
Sorry but I don't think that's right, autotune's totally fine to use but when a vocal is significantly out of tune and for a prolonged period that it's use is obvious and problematic. I'd bet it's on most albums now but crucially is used to accurately correct performances which are something like a low number (less than 15, say) cents (hundredths of a semi-tone out of tune) out of tune. Auto tune shouldn't be used to save bad vocals, it's there to improve already good vocals, or should be. The results should be undetectable and will take nothing from a vocal performance.

It's most problematic when used on almost every note on an album for no reason whatsoever (Hetfield's live vocal is fine, leave it the fuck alone!). Autotune as it's used here (and in plenty of other places) is gratuitous and absolutely not undetectable. Even if the final record is mastered in a civil manner (which the leaked promo certainly isn't), the whole thing sounds like Hetfield was using a vocoder throughout. It's laughable.

Largely, if you need to use autotune (except if it's for a deliberate effect like that of a vocoder) then you shouldn't be anywhere near a vocal mic in the first place. Autotune will rarely improve an already-good vocal such as Hetfield's here; its very use and the ridiculous perfect notes and transitions which result are enough to reduce the quality of said vocal by several orders IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinbee

Twinbee

Posted
Posted

Well generally, what I was hoping for was for Metallica to really raise their position in my estimations, and from what I've heard, they've certainly done that. I had completely written them off after St. Anger, and even the Rick Rubin association did nothing for my expectations.

That they seem to finally be giving us what (some of us) want, is cause for celebration at Twinbee Towers.

As a sort of aside, I really wish there was ONE BAND that could pretty much unite all Metalheads in general appreciation, and, Maiden aside (cos I'm not really a fan), I think only maybe Pantera ever found that sweet spot in the last 15 or so years. Catchy enough for the 'meat n potatoes' metal fans, but heavy enough for the more extreme metal fan.

What's been nice is that, production talk aside, as WahWah said, it's nice to have everyone buzzing about a single release.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinbee

Twinbee

Posted
Posted
Largely, if you need to use autotune (except if it's for a deliberate effect like that of a vocoder) then you shouldn't be anywhere near a vocal mic in the first place. Autotune will rarely improve an already-good vocal such as Hetfield's here; its very use and the ridiculous perfect notes and transitions which result are enough to reduce the quality of said vocal by several orders IMO.

I think Perry Farrell uses one almost permanently (I remember reading an interview with Barney Greenway years and years ago, stating that he hated Jane's Addiciton because of this), but I never found that a problem with JA records. Hell, I think he was using one when I saw them live - his mic was plugged into this weird box covered in knobs, that he kept fiddling with. He referred to it as his box of tricks. Drugged up loon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Transient Curse

Transient Curse

Posted
Posted
It's most problematic when used on almost every note on an album for no reason whatsoever (Hetfield's live vocal is fine, leave it the fuck alone!). Autotune as it's used here (and in plenty of other places) is gratuitous and absolutely not undetectable. Even if the final record is mastered in a civil manner (which the leaked promo certainly isn't), the whole thing sounds like Hetfield was using a vocoder throughout. It's laughable.

Largely, if you need to use autotune (except if it's for a deliberate effect like that of a vocoder) then you shouldn't be anywhere near a vocal mic in the first place. Autotune will rarely improve an already-good vocal such as Hetfield's here;

Well, obviously it's out of tune enough for them to want to correct it. That warbling sounds like it's having to do quite a lot of work to get it to be in tune so perhaps his vocal wasn't fine. I imagine it wasn't a great performance and was significantly out of tune.

its very use and the ridiculous perfect notes and transitions which result are enough to reduce the quality of said vocal by several orders IMO.

You've ignored what I've said about the amount of correction that autotune should be used for though, it's not audible at all if the performance is good to start with, and set correctly. I'm talking about under assessment in isolation, not seeing if sounds alright in the mix. It can totally be undetectable and effect vocals positively. Autotune doesn't mean that a vocal can never be out of tune for a start, there's plenty of room for inflection and humanity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jonathanhoey

jonathanhoey

Posted
Posted
You've ignored what I've said about the amount of correction that autotune should be used for though, it's not audible at all if the performance is good to start with, and set correctly. I'm talking about under assessment in isolation, not seeing if sounds alright in the mix. It can totally be undetectable and effect vocals positively. Autotune doesn't mean that a vocal can never be out of tune for a start, there's plenty of room for inflection and humanity.

I think Sync does know that. There's autotune on some of his old band's stuff (not Sync on vocals) and I'm sure he said it's fine - a useful tool when used in moderation. I think you're actually both defending the same side of the argument. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Transient Curse

Transient Curse

Posted
Posted
I think Sync does know that. There's autotune on some of his old band's stuff (not Sync on vocals) and I'm sure he said it's fine - a useful tool when used in moderation. I think you're actually both defending the same side of the argument. :(

Well he should know I'm right!

:P

Faith No More are a contentious issue waiting to happen, surely? I like the newer stuff and can't really be bothered with the old stuff. Bloody hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
DonRumsfeld

DonRumsfeld

Posted
Posted

I think I remember reading that this album was supposedly recorded in standard E tuning to evoke the feel of the 80s stuff, Live they tune to E-Flat I think so it could be the reason for Het struggling on the higher notes. I haven't noticed it myself, but ain't listened to it since the afternoon.

I'm still loving the album, it's delivered more than I thought possible out of them, I don't mind the sloppy guitar solos either it's just good to hear them. Also it's so good to hear James magnificent right hand back on blistering form.

As a sort of aside, I really wish there was ONE BAND that could pretty much unite all Metalheads in general appreciation, and, Maiden aside (cos I'm not really a fan), I think only maybe Pantera ever found that sweet spot in the last 15 or so years. Catchy enough for the 'meat n potatoes' metal fans, but heavy enough for the more extreme metal fan.

What's been nice is that, production talk aside, as WahWah said, it's nice to have everyone buzzing about a single release.

I agree with Twinbee, it's been a long time since there's been a metal release that's generated discussion from everyone and it's good (I'll disagree with Pantera I only ever thought they'd half a good album :( ). It's the fragmented nature of metal, we've all our own wee niches and it's rare that there's a release that everyone has a vested interest in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.

  I accept