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Twin Peaks

CS2x

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scottcr

scottcr

Posted
Posted

sunk in now

 



I loved that... the finale is the complete opposite of what anyone expected.  Almost felt like a different show... felt like a pilot for a new show.  Perhaps that's the idea behind it.  It never ends.

 

I wouldn't hold your breath for another show.  I think that's just the way it is.

 

Looking forward to the Final Dossier though

 

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Mr Ben

Mr Ben

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"We live inside a dream"

 

 

Is Audrey the dreamer? The Bang Bang bar has had some unlikely bands playing for such a small out of the way club, so this works, however James and Hulk hand showing up there kind of ruins that, somewhat, unless the entire Season 3 has been a dream.

 

Also the car, motel and even where the car was parked outside the motel, all changed once Coop and Diane had sex - The motel was one story when they pulled up, and once Coop leaves its at least two stories tall. The car is a different model in the morning, and is also parked the opposite side of the car park, and facing the other way. This points to it being a completely different world, rather than time, as all the guns (in the diner), vehicles (while Coop was driving to the diner) etc were modern.


Has Coop entered the "real" world once he leaves the motel? There has been a few hints dropped that there could be another series btw, so dont give up on this.

 

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Ravern

Ravern

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Posted
On 8/30/2017 at 23:06, Ravern said:

I'm a bit concerned by people worrying that everything won't be wrapped up next week.  We're not going to get a bit with Cole going "oh yeah and the black box in episode 1 was a portal to the lodge and Coop-as-Dougie lives to the age of 63". There will be plenty of ambiguity left.

 

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Ravern

Ravern

Posted
Posted

Oh yeah and it was brilliant. "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?!"

 

I like this, from a commenter on avclub:

 

"Maybe it’s Baby’s First Critical Analysis to suggest that Twin Peaks: The Return is an extended meditation on both itself and the original run of episodes, but that’s the most coherent interpretation I have so far. I guess the only insight less piercing than that would be “Dale Cooper symbolically represents the show,” but I’m going there too. Dale Cooper, like Twin Peaks, has been on ice for 25 years. Dale Cooper, like Twin Peaks, is composed of two seemingly irreconcilable halves: one wacky, humorous, and inconsequential, the other violent, bleak, and frightening. For Dale Cooper, like Twin Peaks, these halves are kept strictly separate, and are even in a state of implied hostility against or imbalance with one another. But—as it would be with Twin Peaks—for Dale Cooper, when one of these halves achieves victory over the other, it’s over. It can’t continue without both of them. Or at least, if it did continue, it wouldn’t be Twin Peaks.



If Twin Peaks: The Return is about itself, and the process of its own creation, it seems to primarily explore three anxieties about returning to this material: the fear of repeating itself, the fear of meddling with the original, and the fear that the entire project is irrelevant or impossible. 

Repetition is used to unflattering effect throughout the series. Repeating sound effects or vocal clips are used to invoke anxiety and dread when Richard Horne robs his grandmother, and when Sarah Palmer is at home drowning her sorrows alone. The borderline monstrous creature locked up in the Twin Peaks Sheriff’s Department jail repeats words and noises seemingly unthinkingly. The Woodsman’s incantation, repeated over and over again through a radio broadcast, puts everyone who hears it to sleep. And of course Dougie Coop, famously, just repeats back to people whatever they say to him—and achieves fawning adoration in so doing, since he’s essentially telling people exactly what they want to hear. Without wishing to read too much into the filmmakers based on their work, it’s not hard to imagine this as being a nightmare scenario for Lynch and Frost: just repeating themselves without thinking, flattering their audience, and being met with uncritical adoration and success for just giving people what they claimed they wanted.

As for meddling with or tarnishing the original, that’s what the two-part finale, especially the final episode, seemed to be about. By Part 17, the story is very much over. Ed and Norma are together, the Log Lady has given her final prophecy, Lucy finally understands cell phones, the Doppelganger is defeated, and BOB is destroyed. Fuckin’ BOB is destroyed! The interdimensional manifestation of human evil! It’s over! The story’s finished! But Dale Cooper, our symbolic stand-in for the show itself, can’t help himself from trying to meddle with the legacy of the original run. Solving Laura’s murder, absolving her killer of guilt, and moving on and forgetting her story was the cardinal sin of season 2 of Twin Peaks. Cooper’s attempt to erase her tragedy altogether, though well-intentioned, is the ultimate desecration of the original work. Through Dale Cooper, the show’s in-universe avatar for itself, Twin Peaksfeigns caving to its schmaltziest instinct to wrap up its story with a neat little bow, and give a happy ending to everybody, up to and including the dead girl. But a tidy, happy ending is so anathema to everything Twin Peaks represents that attempting to force one causes it to literally become a completely different show.

 

This leads to The Return’s final anxiety: that truly returning to Twin Peaks is somehow impossible, or maybe pointless anyway, that reassembling the cast and gathering them in the same locations to continue telling the same story isn’t going to magically revive the unique magic of Twin Peaks. In Part 18, after his trip to the past to “save” Laura, Cooper is no longer “100% awake.” He’s stilted and hardened, in a way that doesn’t map fully to any of the personalities he’s inhabited throughout the show. He fucks, something that is practically inconceivable of “our” Coop. When he wakes up the next morning, he’s surprised to find that his name has changed. When he meets a character he thinks he knows, he’s confused to learn she’s actually a different character. When he returns her, excruciatingly, manually, to Twin Peaks, she doesn’t even recognize it. Dale Cooper is not in the same show anymore. Twin Peaks is not the same show anymore. He’s trying to force this new show to be Twin Peaks again, but it can’t be. Too much has changed. How could it possibly have been the same show, after all this time? Twin Peaks is coming back? “What year is it?” Is it future, or is it past?

If these really were the anxieties that Frost and Lynch intended to explore (and again, I’m talking out my ass after a single viewing here) then they were, in my opinion, unfounded. The Return was in no way an uncritical repeat performance of the original, it wasn’t a cash-in or a retread, and rather than meddling in or undermining the original, it expanded on it and added new layers to it. If they were exploring more general artistic anxieties about retreading old ground, then I think this is a divine, bizarre, extended meditation on that familiar problem, especially now in an era where long-dormant properties are being constantly resuscitated. Or, if I’m way off base from their artistic intentions, then this is at least what I took away from the work. It’s a little trite, as I said, to make the “art about art/art about itself” interpretation, especially of something as dreamlike and resistant to straightforward interpretation as Lynch’s work, but he’s dabbled in stories about stories before, and even specifically movies about the making of movies, so this would be in his wheelhouse."

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Grobbelboy

Grobbelboy

Posted
Posted

This was spectacular. 

 

Spoiler

No predictable, epic showdown between Cooper and Booper, but an unsatisfying depiction of glove guy (a character hastily introduced a few episodes ago whilst delivering some exposition about his convenient super powers) knocking out the Bob orb in undoubtedly intentionally simplistic bossfight-like fashion. It doesn't really solve anything. The idea of a neatly packaged Ultimate Evil to beat is misguided. That's why episode 18 is so essential. There is no nicely tied-up happy ending and Cooper's naive odyssey to Bring Laura Home ends in a perfect disillusion. There won't be a season 4, this is what Lynch wanted to show and tell. 

 

I'll post something more coherent at a later time. 

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Rsdio

Rsdio

Posted
Posted

Agreed.

 

 

I hope this is how it ends. Obviously I want more Lynch, faults and all, but it's hard to imagine a better, more haunting ending.

 

I'm glad someone else was reminded of Beefheart! While we're on associations it was hard not to think of another of the most memorable screams going, what with episode 18 spending time in Odessa (albeit one, fittingly, in another time and place):

 

170px-Eisenstein_Potemkin_2.jpg

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Exidor

Exidor

Posted
Posted

It's both exactly what I expected and at the same time nothing that I could ever have predicted.

 

Spoiler

I love that Lynch was basically "Right fuck this noise, here's your ending to the series. Now I'm going to do a feature length sequel to FWWM."

 

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Grobbelboy

Grobbelboy

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Posted

A beautiful post stolen from the Something Awful forums:

 

Spoiler

Theory and analysis, long and meandering so feel free to skip:

In Part 2, the Arm-tree discusses the number 253 with Cooper, along with the phrase "time and time again." In Sheriff Truman's office, time begins to get wonky and the clock moves back and forth. Time is stuck at exactly 2:53. This is where the Arm is going to call Cooper back for the next phase of their plan: to save Laura Palmer, because to quote the Log Lady in both Season 3 and the Bravo introduction to the pilot: "Laura is the One." What this means is ambiguous, but she seems to be the antithesis to Judy.

From there the Lodge pulls away those with knowledge of just what the hell is going on: Coop and Diane who had been trapped living inside the White Lodge as Naido, and Cooper calls for Gordon at the last moment taking him, too. For those in the Sheriff station, time is frozen at 2:53. Cooper is taken to yet another back entrance to the Lodges - the Great Northern basement - and uses his own room key to open it (obviously this makes no sense - perhaps the key was attuned to the Lodges since he took it with him inside? Lodge logic is illogical). From there things are pretty plain: the plan of Cooper and Mike is to time-travel via Jeffries, the only human who has time-travelled in the series thus far, using the non-linearity of the Lodges, and save Laura Palmer from her fate.

Cooper succeeds in saving Laura's life. When she is whisked away at the end of Part 17, she is taken by the White Lodge (which is obviously the "home" where the Cooper in the FWWM timeline is taking her to, not the Palmer household) to a new, safer life - as Carrie Page in Odessa, TX. The White Lodge entrance is at Jack Rabbit's Palace and Odessa, TX is home to the world's largest jackrabbit. Laura's memories are perhaps Dougie'd and she lives her new life there.

Twin Peaks the Series is not entirely undone. There is still a Missing Persons case for Cooper to investigate in the town. BOB is still there for them to battle. Coop would still follow Annie into Glastonbury Grove. Nothing major is undone except Laura's murder. We can assume FWWM ends with Leland going to the Cabin, finding only Ronette, and becoming increasingly hostile. It's possible he even kills Ronette there, but the disappearance of the troubled prom queen is just as likely to set off the town just as much as her murder.

From Laura's disappearance Coop is pulled into his own past, but things in the Red Room are different. The Arm-tree echoes Audrey's lines in her dreamreality ("Is it the story of the little girl who lived down the lane? Is it?"), hinting that Audrey might have been deposited there - perhaps the nurse who took Annie's owl ring transferred it to Audrey somehow? Coop's reaction to Dead-Laura's whispering is different, too: In episode 2 it was a pained grunt but now it's a "huh" of confusion. The Red Room Cooper we see in Part 18 is learning all of this for the first time, but now knows what he has to do. This is solidified by Leland's urging him to "find Laura," which is the key to everything. Note: This is not the Doppelganger Leland but the real one without BOB corruption - Doppelgangers have grey eyes in the Lodge, as seen in the Season 2 finale and with DoppelCoop in the beginning of Part 18.

Part 2's version of all of this is different. After meeting with the Arm-Tree Cooper emerges into a Red Room hallway with some weird shifting effects. He then heads for a curtain but is blocked and has to turn back. In Part 2 Cooper finds Leland as well but enters FROM THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE ROOM. Instead of being blocked he uses whatever Lodge power/knowledge he has and opens the entrance to Glastonbury, the same way he came in. There Diane is waiting for him, but it is 25 years later in the Laura-dead timeline. Cooper has to awaken Laura, but she's not alive here.

Here Cooper and Diane retain the knowledge, despite the fact that they're now probably somewhere around Part 1 of Season 3 time-wise, hence why they question their identities (having been replaced by Doppelgangers and Tulpas respectively). Thanks to Cooper's intuitive understanding of the Fireman's cryptic clues, he knows how to get to the reality where he saved Laura - driving to the point where he and Diane cross realities, though there is danger they may lose themselves. Cooper can feel the electricity there and even sees another symbol of Judy - the electric tower. He looks at his watch (is it 2:53?) and steadies himself. I'm not sure exactly where they are geographically at this point - 430 miles away from Twin Peaks, it would seem. They drive through the gate and come out in darkness, changed.

Their new selves are Richard and Linda, new lives not unlike Dougie for Coop before. They are both in danger here of losing their true personalities in this world where Laura survived. They pull up to a motel (the same one where Jeffries stays?) and Diane sees her true self reaching out. The true Diane disappears. They sleep together in the hotel room, Cooper obviously different as well. During their lovemaking, Diane covers Cooper's face as she is subsumed by her new self - she no longer recognizes Richard, because he's still mostly Cooper. Horrified, Linda leaves in the middle of the night.

Cooper awakens, confused, but recalls the Fireman's message vaguely when he reads the note. He emerges from the room into a different parking lot, now in Odessa, and in fact with a different car (Richard's?), though he pauses - he's a bit confused by the situation, but resigns himself to the mission: Find Laura. 

He wanders to Judy's, assuming he's been put in the right place and right time just like the Fireman put DoppelCoop in the right place and right time to get taken out by Lucy and Freddie. Coop expects to find Laura here but does not and goes on a hunch that Alive-Laura is still connected to Judy's. His temperament is changed by becoming Richard - he is more harsh, but still has an unchecked sense of what is good. Dale Cooper is a cowboy hero and he saves a random waitress on the way to finding Laura.

At Alive-Laura's house he sees the pole and hears electricity, a sign that he's on the right track. Here he meets Carrie Page, the Dougie Jones to her Laura Palmer - notable, however, is that Kyle MacLachlan is never credited as Dougie Jones, but Sheryl Lee receives a credit for both Laura AND Carrie. At the front door Carrie has no knowledge of Laura but does seem to bristle at the mention of Sarah Palmer (most certainly Judy/the Jumping Man and I would also assume most certainly the girl who ate the Frogroach). Coop wants to bring Laura to Sarah for unexplained reasons - possibly to destroy Judy.

In Carrie's house, Coop finds a few odd things: a corpse with what looks to be a BOB orb emerging from its stomach, a white horse in front of a blue plate, and white paint next to an assault rifle. It would appear that Carrie is still being attacked by agents of Judy even in this reality, though she can kill them. She is attempting to hide her self-defense murder by painting over the scene of the crime, though it's been awhile as the corpse is attracting flies. The horse is decor, but looks like a pupil: the horse is the white of the eyes.

Carrie and Cooper travel to Twin Peaks where Carrie falls asleep and Laura peeks through ("In those days I was too young to know any better"). They arrive at their destination but are met by Lodge Spirits (now Tremond, before Chalfont) at the door to the Palmer Household. It's unclear whether Cooper knows the Chalfont/Tremond/lodge connection, but he definitely recalls the name Chalfont from Carl Rodd's explanation of the trailer in FWWM. The fact that Alice Tremond and her husband seem to be awake when it's obviously early morning (the RR Diner is closed) should be hint that they're a front. 

Dejectedly Cooper leaves with Carrie, but he reconsiders. He hears a bit of radio static, stumbles a bit, and asks "What year is this?" It's the "future", not the "past," though Cooper isn't so sure. Carrie, meanwhile, is also affected by this and hears Sarah/Judy's call. Here Laura awakens "100%" inside Carrie, now with her memories of the horrors she suffered in her previous life - all of which, save for her final murder, still occurred. She screams and, recognizing this, the Palmer house - controlled by Judy and the Black Lodge - shuts off. We're left with the final mystery of just what Dead-Laura whispered to Coop.

tl;dr: Cooper created a new timeline, but everything that happened happened. The past, however, dictates the future and Cooper exists now separate from himself (two Coopers) in the "future" of Season 3. This is definitely left open for a Season 4, where Cooper/Laura must confront Judy.

 

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Sprite Machine

Sprite Machine

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Posted

This will be discussed and dissected for years to come, probably. Episode 18 was a frustrating watch because I didn't feel I had even the basis of understanding what was happening for most of it, whereas at least I could follow the urgency and drama of Ep17.

 

Why did Coop and Diane travel through a portal in their car to... nighttime? Why did they stay at a motel? Why did Diane see a double of herself by the reception? What happened to Coop's fucking emotions?! Why did the letter imply they've changed their names? Has the universe changed around them, and did it change that night or before that night? The motel and car were different in the morning. Are Coop and Diane Richard and Linda, then (so the other Richard is unrelated, a red herring)? What does Coop know or not know about what he's doing during any of this (like, how does he know to go to a diner and ask for another waitress's address)? Why drive hundreds of miles with notLaura to meet her notMother, who is notThere anyway? Is her mother 'Judy'? Is that the evil inside her?

 

And...

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO AUDREY?!!!

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Purin

Purin

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Sprite Machine said:

This will be discussed and dissected for years to come, probably. Episode 18 was a frustrating watch because I didn't feel I had even the basis of understanding what was happening for most of it, whereas at least I could follow the urgency and drama of Ep17.

 

 

  Hide contents

Why did Coop and Diane travel through a portal in their car to... nighttime? Why did they stay at a motel? Why did Diane see a double of herself by the reception? What happened to Coop's fucking emotions?! Why did the letter imply they've changed their names? Has the universe changed around them, and did it change that night or before that night? The motel and car were different in the morning. Are Coop and Diane Richard and Linda, then (so the other Richard is unrelated, a red herring)? What does Coop know or not know about what he's doing during any of this (like, how does he know to go to a diner and ask for another waitress's address)? Why drive hundreds of miles with notLaura to meet her notMother, who is notThere anyway? Is her mother 'Judy'? Is that the evil inside her?

 

 

And...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO AUDREY?!!!

 

 

 

 

bhey were going to the original motel which I think is some kind of inter-dimensional junction (mayne the one where Jefferies is at). Diane seeing herself is probably an effect of crossing dimensions. Coop is different now (and is now Richard), they actually discussed how they might be different afterwards.

 

Just remember... "we are inside a dream".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Bazjam

Bazjam

Posted
Posted

Episode 18 was a confusing watch, much the same way as Inland Empire and Lost Highway were on first viewing. Films that I absolutely adore now after multiple viewings and online discussions. I think in time (and I already somewhat do) I will see this as an awesome ending to what has been an absolutely amazing season. 

 

I was mainly surprised by the final episode as I thought for sure that Lynch was going to wrap things up. Can only assume he's hoping for another season. 

 

Also, those last ten minutes of episode 17! Wow, just pure emotion. 

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scottcr

scottcr

Posted
Posted

Back in Coops dream at the start of series 1... The arm says 'Laura' is his cousin. Mike and Bob were both evil, I'm assumed both born of Jai Do... we saw that Bob was born from Jai Do in episode 8... in the same episode, the Fireman formed Laura. Does that mean the Fireman and Jai Do are brother and sister?  The Fireman spends eternity putting out the fires created by Jai Do.

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scottcr

scottcr

Posted
Posted

A Bit of numerology funtimes.. but plays out as Coop starts resetting things and Laura realises who she is at the end...

 

Everything starts changing at 

 

253. Which equals 10. The number of completion. Represented as a circle, 1+0 is 1, the start again.

coop, Cole and Diane then go to use key 315 in the hotel, where mike takes him to see PJ. 315 added is 9

PJ decodes the Owl/Judy symbol as the number 8. Or an infinity symbol. Also, two circles at the same time. Coop/Dianne, Richard/Linda. Maybe

 

After rescuing Laura from BOB in the original timeline, Laura is blasted out of the lodge, coop goes to find her and meets Diane. Coop and Diane drive 430 miles to the substation that lets them travel to the motel

 

430 is 7

 

They also go into room 7 for some pumpin

 

the next major number he sees is the 6 on the telegraph pole outside 'Laura's' house 

 

(Door number 1516 - 13?) 1+3 is 4... (stretching here)

 

3 painting on the wall in the house, 3 flowers in circles. Just below, 3 stacked big rolls.

 

2 - twin peaks

 

laura is the 1

 

Back at the start of the circle, to repeat again.

 

 

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