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Am I The Only One Who Is Dissapointed?


Gigga
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It's not fun, it's just rubbish. Apparently, when questioned about the lack of snipers in the first game, Jason Jones said it was no fun walking into a room and dying instantly from God knows what or where. Pity he seems to have since forgotten all about that...

So yes, forget Legendary, if you haven't already decided not to bother. It's not the fun challenge it was in the original, it's just a tedious memory test chore.

Join ussssss.

I must admit (to hoots of derision, no doubt) to packing in Legendary very early on, in the middle of the Pelican bays. Yes, that bit's doable (obviously), but I just found it more a chore than a challenge. I never felt that way on Halo Legendary (even Into The Belly Of The Beast - which was a little too hard, IMO - seemed a fluid battle); some of the set pieces in H2 seemed stodgy by comparison, relying on equal parts of luck/bloody-mindedness/running away where possible, in order to get through. Or, as you say, memory tests I guess. Whatever, they just didn't seem so malleable, or so much like a playground for trying different combat/exploration tactics.

In fact, with the new Legendary I was reminded of nothing less than PSO Ep2 c-mode, compared to Ep1 c-mode: I knew that, even if I struggled past all of the in-between bits, I just never wanted to face waves of one-hit-kill snipers, or see the bloody boss battles ever again (especially having read some of the accounts of that appalling Tartarus bore-fest at the end). And I'm sure you'll recognise that feeling of "ah, fuck it - it's really not worth all the effort" that came over me in both instances.

Evidently, some will disagree; but, for me, Heroic is where it ends. I'm going to have a few more plays on that, but, ultimately, I'm certain I won't be going back to this game anywhere near as much as I did the first.

Of course, if I was anything other than shit beyond belief on multiplayer, that'd make a big difference to its longevity; and equally obviously, if I'd never played Halo I'd be a lot more satisfied with this game. But I would argue that it's not unreasonable expectations that have led to this disappointment, but an entirely reasonable one: that the campaign mode would have the drama, the sense of scale, the scope for creativity, and the number of memorable (combat) moments, that the first had. IMO it hasn't, and not by a long chalk.

It's all been said before, I know, but this *is* a good game and, at the same time, a huge let down. Maybe it's Mario Sunshine syndrome in some ways, but I guess that's simply a measure of how great a single-player game Halo really was. I'm just surprised that some of the stuff they had nailed - the best, most open level designs from the original, the lack of bosses, the bits where AI rather than weight of numbers or ridiculous abilities made the combat challenging - were discarded for the follow-up.

Or maybe I'm just too old and out of condition for this sort of slog. I suppose I'll find out when Echoes is released.

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On another note, what's with the execrable "inspired by" songs on the soundtrack album? It ranges from meh (Breaking Benjamin and Incubus) to utter shat (Hoobastank).

That Breking Benjamin song is actually in the game, albeit without the vocals. It's played during the "Maybe we should sit this one out" fight at the end of the 12th level.

The first Incubus track is partly in the game too during the banshee bit on the gas mining facility.

I agree with you about the Hoobastank trak being terrible, but I think a special mention goes to "Never Surrender". It's just a generic dance tune with Halo 2 soundbytes spliced in. "Okay, I'm shutting you down!" <_<

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Join ussssss.

I must admit (to hoots of derision, no doubt) to packing in Legendary very early on, in the middle of the Pelican bays. Yes, that bit's doable (obviously), but I just found it more a chore than a challenge. I never felt that way on Halo Legendary (even Into The Belly Of The Beast - which was a little too hard, IMO - seemed a fluid battle); some of the set pieces in H2 seemed stodgy by comparison, relying on equal parts of luck/bloody-mindedness/running away where possible, in order to get through. Or, as you say, memory tests I guess. Whatever, they just didn't seem so malleable, or so much like a playground for trying different combat/exploration tactics.

In fact, with the new Legendary I was reminded of nothing less than PSO Ep2 c-mode, compared to Ep1 c-mode: I knew that, even if I struggled past all of the in-between bits, I just never wanted to face waves of one-hit-kill snipers, or see the bloody boss battles ever again (especially having read some of the accounts of that appalling Tartarus bore-fest at the end). And I'm sure you'll recognise that feeling of "ah, fuck it - it's really not worth all the effort" that came over me in both instances.

Evidently, some will disagree; but, for me, Heroic is where it ends. I'm going to have a few more plays on that, but, ultimately, I'm certain I won't be going back to this game anywhere near as much as I did the first.

Of course, if I was anything other than shit beyond belief on multiplayer, that'd make a big difference to its longevity; and equally obviously, if I'd never played Halo I'd be a lot more satisfied with this game. But I would argue that it's not unreasonable expectations that have led to this disappointment, but an entirely reasonable one: that the campaign mode would have the drama, the sense of scale, the scope for creativity, and the number of memorable (combat) moments, that the first had. IMO it hasn't, and not by a long chalk.

It's all been said before, I know, but this *is* a good game and, at the same time, a huge let down. Maybe it's Mario Sunshine syndrome in some ways, but I guess that's simply a measure of how great a single-player game Halo really was. I'm just surprised that some of the stuff they had nailed - the best, most open level designs from the original, the lack of bosses, the bits where AI rather than weight of numbers or ridiculous abilities made the combat challenging - were discarded for the follow-up.

Or maybe I'm just too old and out of condition for this sort of slog. I suppose I'll find out when Echoes is released.

Hey, I still think that overall, it's ace - it's just Legendary that's crushingly disappointed me. And that's mainly due to the snipers.* Can't believe you packed it in without doing the bays, man...you're definitely slippin'! Interesting call re. Super Mario Sunshine there and the Episode 2 C-Mode comparison rings true for as well.

Oh, and you better check out the Echoes thread before making that purchase - it sounds bastard hard from the descriptions so far!

*Okay, if I'm honest, the thought of fighting the Brutes depresses me as well, especially when they decide to do that glitchy, beserker spaz out thing of theirs...

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While I love sniping those Covenant mo-fos I hate being on the receiving end. That might be hypocritical, but I don't care. Being killed without warning is just not cool. Kool of Kool And The Gang would not approve and neither do I. That's how uncool it is.

Not only do I agree wholeheartedly, but the way you put it is just about the funniest thing ever! :rolleyes:

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i think Halo 2 has a better single player game than Halo 1. i think a lot of people have raised their expectations far too high and in the process forgotten about Halo 1's shortcomings (repetitive level design, literally repeating levels, the library).

I agree to a point. i certainly think the delta halo level was better than anything in halo 1. i just think we all wanted a campaign that was 20 hours of that consistent quality.

When it hits its peaks its better than anything IMO. But its got far less peaks than Halo 1's campaign.

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Its amazing they ignored what made the original different and great and but the normal FPS stuff back into Halo 2. I really don't think the weapons are that balanced anymore, you can get away with never using half of them. The brutes are just plain rubbish, and the appearance of bosses really pisses me off espically after they said it was a bad thing to have bosses in games.

as already, delta halo is great and that was like the silent cartogrpaher, at least for a while. then the snipers started appearing again.

its still great though, but like many here I'm almost angry at how much bungie screwed up.

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Played co-op for the first time at the weekend, and it really is great fun. Just racing the Warthogs around that circular bit of Delta Halo was enough for me.

The carnage is also maximised in co-op, especially when there are Brutes around. Two of you lobbing grenades as Brute shots are firing and other Brutes are charging at the two Chiefs. I never get tired of seeing Brute corpses go flying.

I really think some of you need a nice stress relieving massage before sitting down to play it again with a nice beer and a spliff, forget all your pre-conceptions about what you were expecting, and just HAVE FUN. It is there to be had, you just need to take it less seriously. I mean, man, getting angry with it? What's that all about?

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I really think some of you need a nice stress relieving massage before sitting down to play it again with a nice beer and a spliff, forget all your pre-conceptions about what you were expecting, and just HAVE FUN.

And I think that some of you need to stop acting like some absurd kind of reverse-Cackies and accept that not everyone enjoys the game as much as you do.

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I really think some of you need a nice stress relieving massage before sitting down to play it again with a nice beer and a spliff, forget all your pre-conceptions about what you were expecting, and just HAVE FUN. It is there to be had, you just need to take it less seriously. I mean, man, getting angry with it? What's that all about?

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that Bungie raped my childhood, obviously. Halo 2's campaign mode is solid, competant stuff. It's just that - in my opinion - it never comes close to matching the high points of the original. There's too much filler and not enough killer.

I don't think it's simply a case of looking at the original with rose-tinted specs, either. I can remember feeling equally underwhelmed when I first got my hands on Halo (the Pillar of Autumn is not a great opening level by any stretch). However, at some point during the campaign it just 'clicked' for me. That click never materialised with Halo 2.

I'm glad you're enjoying it though. <_<

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Really don't see what the problem is with the single player game so far...

Granted, it got off to a poor start, but once on earth it's been picking up ever since. Everything that Halo got right is here as well, from the balance of the weapons, the protracted and genuinely adrenaline pumping battles, the fantastic musical score and engaging set pieces.

Don't know what the problem with playing as the arbiter was either... I enjoyed it, and the boss level at the end of that level was real seat of your pants stuff.

... and please, don't mention backtracking. I can't stand it when people see this as negative. "You need to make your way back to the hanger"... oh man.. it involves backtracking.. big deal! It's all the better because the flood are in full force and the places is falling to bits around you. Sheeshhh.. some people.

Single player, so far, has had as many wonderful "gaming moments" as the first one for me.

However, on the flip side, my live experience has been a bit "meh" so far... Probably because no-one on my friends list uses Xbox live anymore, so I'll need to add some of you guys. So far, they've been empty affairs with no banter.

Now.. must get it finished before Echoes comes out....

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Ouch. Right in the 'nads.

Seriously, that's exactly how some people are behaving.

"I love Halo because of reasons 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5."

"You're wrong, those things are really piss-poor. Just let go of your middlecore urges to fit in with the crowd and see the TRUTH, man!"

"I feel a bit disappointed with Halo 2 due to reasons 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5."

"You're wrong, those things are really fucking excellent. Just forget about your preconceptions and have FUN, man!"

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Seriously, that's exactly how some people are behaving.

"I love Halo because of reasons 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5."

"You're wrong, those things are really piss-poor. Just let go of your middlecore urges to fit in with the crowd and see the TRUTH, man!"

"I feel a bit disappointed with Halo 2 due to reasons 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5."

"You're wrong, those things are really fucking excellent. Just forget about your preconceptions and have FUN, man!"

Point taken, but what I'm trying to do is turn people on to something, to enthuse them. Isn't that better than bringing people down with griping and moaning?

I don't have a particular issue with people not liking it, but I do hate this kind af angry sulking bitterness that some people have, like Bungie has shat directly into their Xbox or something, as a personal insult to them. Like what Pete said - "I was almost angry at them for screwing up so badly". That's just crazy talk.

I don't buy many games, and if I don't like something (like XIII or something) I generally tend to sell it, and forget it. I certainly wouldn't pile into a thread full of people talking about it and attempt to brow beat them into saying it's shit. When I do get a game I like though, I tend to be very enthusiastic and evangelical about it, because I want people to share in my fun. It probably gets a bit irritating, but I'm ultimately only trying to be positive.

But like I said, point taken, even if it was a bit below the belt! :unsure:

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The new enemy (can't remember the name) was simpler than any of the Phfor and quite boring. The levels were a mixed bag. Some were great, others were far worse than the original. The gameplay was MUCH faster, and the story took a turn for the worse that ultimately led to the joke that was the story of Infinity (I know that Cacky might disagree with me on that one).

Not at all. Inifinity has very awkward narrative, very intelligent and thought provoking (like a puzzle), not very involved though. My favourite part of the narrative for Marathon was Marathon 2: Durandal. It took the curtains away and showed the player the scope of what was really going on. In anycase, Inifinity only riffed on Marathon 2's story anyway.

I just wished Halo had a similarly wonderful plot as Marathon [sigh]

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well the level where you are the arbiter and has all the brutes is pretty amazing now actually, walking into a room lined with weapons made me smile, and I love the new ghosts a lot. they handle so well.

and I can't help feeling angry, it can be annoying seeing something you love so much changed in this way.

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Point taken, but what I'm trying to do is turn people on to something, to enthuse them. Isn't that better than bringing people down with griping and moaning?

It is of course better, and who knows, maybe all the enthusiasm might get a few to actually see Halo 2 in a new light. ;)

However, with a game as anticipated as Halo 2, there's bound to be people who are disappointed, and what better way of dealing with that than to give them their own thread to voice all that disappointment, all those broken promises and what have you, in? This way they don't interfere with all the love bombing going on elsewhere...

FWIW, I have really, really tried to love Halo 2. I want to love it, I want it to be the best thing ever and I was a bit disappointed when it didn't score a 10 in Edge. Not that I think it's worth a 10, mind... :o However, I'm on my second run through, and while the first map was far better than I remembered, and Outskirts also started out better, it all came tumbling down when I first encountered those fucking snipers again. They just force you to slow down to a tedious grind of poking your head out every second in order to get through it alive. And this is on heroic - where you've at least got one free hit before they kill you! I can only imagine how frustrating I would find it on Legendary.

Add to this faster pace, the confused, sprawling and poorly told story with its non-ending, crappy new enemies (not only brutes, but also flying elites - again, totally ripped from Metroid Prime - and those other flying thingies) and a new weapon set that effectively makes a lot of weapons totally redundant and all of a sudden we have exactly the game Halo could have been if Bungie hadn't been so brilliant. But like someone said earlier, it's almost as if they've ignored all those insights that made the original great.

So, at least for me, Halo 2 is a huge disappointment. I am truly and utterly happy for those who enjoy it, I wish I could, but I just couldn't. Fortunately, I'm not the only one, and thankfully there's this great thread in which we can voice our discontent. Not to say that Bungie has personally broken into our homes and shat in our Xboxes. Although it does feel like that at times. :)

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Not at all. Inifinity has very awkward narrative, very intelligent and thought provoking (like a puzzle), not very involved though. My favourite part of the narrative for Marathon was Marathon 2: Durandal. It took the curtains away and showed the player the scope of what was really going on. In anycase, Inifinity only riffed on Marathon 2's story anyway.

To be honest, I still think that the original's plot is better than Durandal's.

Admittedly, it opens up a bit in terms of giving you the full picture and it really paints a deeper picture of both Phfor and Durandal, but ultimately, I felt more inspired and involved by the first, with Leela's demise, Durandal's rise as a hero, your first trip to the Phfor ship and that fantastic moment (Welcome to the Revolution - just the name of the level sends shivers up my spine) when the S'pht turned on their Phfor masters. Fucking excellent.

If there is one game that should be remastered in a new engine it is this. And not by some third party, but by Bungie themselves. Marathon told with the Halo engine would be glorious.

I just wished Halo had a similarly wonderful plot as Marathon

Agreed. What's so striking is how much has been ripped from it. This becomes even more obvious in Halo 2. Now, is there anyone who has played the Marathon games who for one second doubts that ...

Click For Spoiler
... Cortana will turn into a rampant omnipresent AI in Halo 3?
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Just completed it on Heroic and I have to say I'm deeply disappointed. Not because it's a bad game (it isn't!) but because it's not a patch on the original. To me it feels almost like Halo 2 was made by a different developer who was given the game engine and then proceeded to throw everything that made Halo so special out of the window. I realize all of this has been said before but I have to get this off my chest.

- Bosses: I just can't understand why they included boss battles this time around. They were universally praised for their brave decision to make a FPS without bosses and yet they are there in Halo 2. Why did they do this?

- AI: I've seen Brutes getting stuck in scenery and running against a crate forever. I've walked up next to an enemy which ignored me until I stuck a grenade on it's body. This is absolutely unforgivable. The AI in Halo was perfect why did they mess around with it? The mind boggles.

- Graphics: They were perfect in Halo. I'll never forget the first time I looked at the grass on Level 2 with the sniper rifle with 10x zoom. It was the best vegetation ever seen in a videogame. Load up Halo 2, look at the grass and scratch your head trying to figure out what went wrong. Plus it features the worst texture pop up I've ever seen. Which is not only ugly but really destroys the illusion of 'being there'. Halo 1 look infinitely more solid.

- Invisible walls: They really hit you in the face and you'll be hard pressed to play through the game without encountering them. Again, unforgivable considering they were not there in Halo 1 and especially damaging to the sense of immersion in a game with realistic environments.

Don't get me wrong, Halo 2 is a good game it's just NOWHERE near as good as the original. And that's why so many people are so utterly disappointed. Halo was the best FPS of all time and Bungie had three years to improve on the game and deliver the goods. I expected them to succeed because they showed us what they are capable of and they already had a perfect game engine with perfect AI and fantastic graphics to work with.

I'd propably not be that bothered by these things if I didn't know that Bungie can do so much better. Exactly why they decided to take out the things that made Halo special we'll probably never know.

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its much better than Halo imo. Delta Halo is an instant classic.

Its providing me with more fun than any level in Halo. I love it. Cant wait to try it out on legendry with a mate, scoped out loads of points to pick off covies. Had some magical moments today with the AI even. The game is getting rinsed at my house and it still manages to stay fresh.

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Ignoring my 'issues' with Legendary for the moment, here's a little tale centering on the good stuff:

-Heroic-

-Metropolis-

Having made it over the bridge and through the tunnel with 4 marines (1 battle rifle, 1 sniper, 2 rocket launchers) in tow, we approached the park area like ninjas...for all of 2 seconds, when the marines went apeshit, sniping and blowing up the unaware jackal at the entrance. Leaving them to it, I jumped down and flagged the Gaussgun Warthog and took the wheel. Above us, the marines continued to show what fun you could have with a rocket launcher and an enemy gun emplacement.

Circling the centre structure, we took out most of the cannon emplacements and drove up to the where the marines had now encamped and were taking out snipers with extreme prejudice. Honking the horn, a marine ran over and jumped in to ride shotgun (or, in this case, rocket) and off we went again. The Ghosts didn't know where to turn as the gaussgun and various rockets ripped them apart. Leaving the remaining marines, we drove onto the next area, where we made short work of a Wraith and 6 Ghosts. Stopping for a breather, I noticed something heading towards us from the previous area...but it was just the 3 marines running to catch us up. I waited for them to move on then followed onto the streets.

The Earth City music kicks in as a scene of carnage is revealed - a Warthog spinning around gunning down Ghosts while the marines chip in with sniper shots and rockets. Bringing our own 'hog onto the scene, the Ghosts panic and are caught in a crossfire that kills the pilots but surprisingly leaves the vehicles intact. Two of the marines grab one each while the other marine (by a stroke of luck, the guy carrying the other rocket launcher) heads off on foot. With the Warthogs in the middle and the Ghosts on the flanks, we charge up the hill and around the corner, laying waste to the two Wraiths and blowing seven shades of shit out of the Phantom that showed up futily trying to support them - the Ghosts it dropped were destroyed before they hit the ground and its red plasma cannons blasted to buggery.

The Phantom bugs out and we all drive our vehicles up to the building entrance. The on-foot marine runs over to us. Job done, no casualties. A couple of Pelicans arrive and drop off more troops and Team Bad Mofo head on inside. Now, just that small matter of a Scarab to take care of...

On Heroic, it's not particularly challenging but damn, it sure is fun.

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Amen to that.

Have you noticed that although you can't destroy the Covenant dropships, you can destroy their guns?

Yup. that's what we did - normally, they hang around for a while but with its guns now smoldering wreckage lying on the road below, there wasn't much point in it hanging around. See also the Scorpion/bridge bit, where they'll soon leave if you hit them repeatedly with the cannon.

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