Kameo Delayed Indefinately.

[peve]

The way i see it,

Every game that has been released since Banjo tooie has been in development for multiple consoles, I dont know about you, but i would find that extremerly hard to make a decent solid game with all that going on.

It like being in your final year at school, and being transfered to about 3 diffrent schools during the year, you wont learn shit.

I have full confidence that ones rare settle down and start making games for 1 console (xbox2). at the start of its life. They will be back to the top again, with regards to great software.

CBFD is a exception to my rule, because it is a past classic with tarted up graphics, and a multiplyer tacked on.

[Burai]

The way i see it,

Every game that has been released since Banjo tooie has been in development for multiple consoles, I dont know about you, but i would find that extremerly hard to make a decent solid game with all that going on.

It like being in your final year at school, and being transfered to about 3 diffrent schools during the year, you wont learn shit.

I have full confidence that ones rare settle down and start making games for 1 console (xbox2). at the start of its life. They will be back to the top again, with regards to great software.

CBFD is a exception to my rule, because it is a past classic with tarted up graphics, and a multiplyer tacked on.

That's a very romantic way of looking at things, but sadly utterly wrong.

Take Kameo. On Xbox alone it's been in development for over two years. In that time there has been more than one complete overhaul of the game.

And these haven't just been graphical/hardware-specific changes. This is "completely throw away the game idea and start it from scratch".

And now it looks as though they are binning it all again.

This is not a hardware issue. This is a fundamental game design issue.

[Kryptonian]

But they have switched hardware too, right?

[df0notfound]

The way i see it,

Every game that has been released since Banjo tooie has been in development for multiple consoles, I dont know about you, but i would find that extremerly hard to make a decent solid game with all that going on.

It like being in your final year at school, and being transfered to about 3 diffrent schools during the year, you wont learn shit.

I have full confidence that ones rare settle down and start making games for 1 console (xbox2). at the start of its life. They will be back to the top again, with regards to great software.

CBFD is a exception to my rule, because it is a past classic with tarted up graphics, and a multiplyer tacked on.

your only kidding yourself, face facts the talent is gone and they were just dead weight for nintendo thats why they dumped them on the first idiot who came along.

[Couch Corpse]

They can probably write off the $500 million as a tax deductible or something.

If they paid any, yes.

df0notfound may be right, some of the staff must have left when MS came along.

[rubberducker]

whilst it might be true that many of rare's finest employees have moved to pastures new, i don't think everybody should jump off the sinking ship just yet.

the next generation of hardware is perhaps the most important for microsoft. it is make or break time. the xbox 1 has about 18 months left before its big brother is going to take over.

what do all good console's need, ideally from the get go? that's right kids, system selling games.

if you were microsoft what would you be planning? how to steal the ps 2's market share, or the PS 3's?

if kamino is that good wouldn't it be more useful as an XBOX 2 launch title? as well as perfect dark?

of course rare could be a shambles and microsoft have dropped the ball. but have they?

when they purchased rare it was the first time the games media and gaming masses took them seriously. the deal bought the company gaming credability.

it wasn't long ago that everyone thought the xbox would be the next gizmondo.

maybe rare might surprise us.

[Salsa Party Animal]

We probably write them off now, then when XBOX 2 come out there will be 5 AAAA quality games made by rare for XBOX 2 and make us desperate for it. Then Bill Gates can sleep better.

[Marzipan Travolta]

Assuming that XBox2 launches next Christmas then Xbox probably has enough titles to maintain it's sales through to launch. Halo 2 pre-Christmas, MechAssault 2, Forza, KotOR 2, Doom 3. Then a bit of a drought for a few months and Xbox2 launch titles. I'm guessing Bungie wont have a game out at launch so Rare must have some.

XBox 2 needs its Halo to come from somewhere.

[Beertiger]

Assuming that XBox2 launches next Christmas then Xbox probably has enough titles to maintain it's sales through to launch. Halo 2 pre-Christmas, MechAssault 2, Forza, KotOR 2, Doom 3. Then a bit of a drought for a few months and Xbox2 launch titles. I'm guessing Bungie wont have a game out at launch so Rare must have some.

XBox 2 needs its Halo to come from somewhere.

That's most probably what will happen.

I wish Halo 3 was ready for launch though. Even though Halo 2 isn't out yet. Then again Perfect Dark 0 would be a good release game, not that it will ever happen with Rare at the helm.

Would be a nice way to stop the waiting between franchises alternating between Perfect Dark and Halo releases.

[linkster]

I suppose the killer app argument though fanciful holds some merit, particularly when you think what's happened to BC lately. MS looking to make sure it's "best developers" having two top titles to support an Xbox2 launch? Not impossible.

Doesn't change the fact that the only explanation for such a poor showing this gen from Rare is pisspoor planning and management. However you dress it there's not other explanation. Not like they have some super-high standard to maintain, as GBYT and SF:DP show only too clearly.

[rubberducker]

how long will your average next gen title take to develop? 2-3 years? That would mean that if Rare had been in developement since the m$ takeover that they would be ready to deliver a title or two for launch. it would be a complete sucker punch to sony, who never seem to launch with much in the way of software.

M$ have had their eye on the next gen for sometime (as they know that is where some profit potentially could be) -

the shewd fuckers uncle bill employs have been thinking about generation 2, from the Xbox's off.

[Burai]

But they have switched hardware too, right?

I don't really see what that's got to do with it though.

It's not like Xbox and GameCube are that far apart in terms of capability, save for the hard drive.

The important thing is that the fundamentals of the game have changed. Not once but twice before now and another time with this announcement in mind.

Regardless of platform, the fundamentals should work wherever you put them and clearly by having to change them so often, they have no confidence in the game, nor do they have any idea how to make it work.

[Burai]

how long will your average next gen title take to develop? 2-3 years? That would mean that if Rare had been in developement since the m$ takeover that they would be ready to deliver a title or two for launch. it would be a complete sucker punch to sony, who never seem to launch with much in the way of software.

You may want to believe this, but it just isn't true.

You act as though Rare are a really tiny team. They aren't.

Christ, even Treasure put out more games across multiple platforms than Rare do for their one, on a fraction of the budget and with a fraction of the workforce.

[patriot]

Rare are cooking something special.

You just won't see it for a while.

maybe when nintendo buy them back for 10 mil we will see something special.

[Prine]

The people behind Conker and PDO (Bar Hollis) are still at Rare. Check out scribes, not that many left, not in double figures anyway

[rubberducker]

burai. they haven't actually said they are changing the game from the ground up again.

all they have said is they are making changes.

it's quite easy to be really cynical and say they are just shit because they haven't delivered on all their promise. but i think that is underestimating microsoft.

a new franchise is bound to get more attention, if it is one of the first on a new generation of hardware. sounds like business sense to me.

[Burai]

burai. they haven't actually said they are changing the game from the ground up again.

all they have said is they are making changes.

it's quite easy to be really cynical and say they are just shit because they haven't delivered on all there promise. but i think that is underestimating microsoft.

a new franchise is bound to get more attention, if it is one of the first on a new generation of hardware. sounds like business sense to me.

Delaying it indefinately would suggest that the changes are going to be somewhat major, wouldn't you think.

And I'm sorry, but I think your theory is utter pish.

Going by what sells consoles right now, having a deluxe version of Kameo up their sleeves isn't going to be any kind of trump card. People aren't going to be laying down £200+ on a machine because you can play a game where you play as a fairy that can posess animals.

[peve]

but then they would for a fat plumper, wearing dungarie's and a train hat ?

Even tho that is far more of a gaming icon than kameo, surely if the game is awsome it dont matter who the lead role is ?

[rubberducker]

Delaying it indefinately would suggest that the changes are going to be somewhat major, wouldn't you think.

i'd say upgrading and improving the visuals for a next gen engine would be pretty major, yes. that is, as well as, locking into a XBOX 2 launch window.

And I'm sorry, but I think your theory is utter pish.

i feel pretty much the same about yours.

if you really want to believe rare are fucked because only one game has been produced so far - then good for you. its pretty easy to do, as long as you don't pay attention to what the parent company are trying to achieve in the long run.

whether we like it or not the next gen is on.

"just add monsters" (for example) have gathered attention (and investment) recently, not because they have a great game idea, but because they have a next gen title is the works. they realise it is much easier for a game(and a new franchise) to stand out in the early days of a console's life.

if kamino was delayed until the summer for instance (which it might be, who knows). it would potentially get lost, as everyone's attention will be on the just announced XBOX 2 - and what was coming on that.

anyway i guess we'll agree to disargee.

[df0notfound]

You may want to believe this, but it just isn't true.

You act as though Rare are a really tiny team. They aren't.

Christ, even Treasure put out more games across multiple platforms than Rare do for their one, on a fraction of the budget and with a fraction of the workforce.

quote of the day great stuff

pevebut then they would for a fat plumper, wearing dungarie's and a train hat ?

Even tho that is far more of a gaming icon than kameo, surely if the game is awsome it dont matter who the lead role is ?

A fat plumber who defined 2d and 3d platforming as we know it :ROLL EYES HERE: much better than yet another collect em up form rare.

[squirtle]

if kamino was delayed until the summer for instance (which it might be, who knows). it would potentially get lost, as everyone's attention will be on the just announced XBOX 2 - and what was coming on that.

It's Kameo. Sorry, but the wrong name was bugging me.

[Burai]

but then they would for a fat plumper, wearing dungarie's and a train hat ?

Even tho that is far more of a gaming icon than kameo, surely if the game is awsome it dont matter who the lead role is ?

Not the lead character, the premise of the game.

Are you honestly telling me that cutesy platform collect-em-ups have been the stand-out top sellers on the Xbox?

[squirtle]

Not the lead character, the premise of the game.

Are you honestly telling me that cutesy platform collect-em-ups have been the stand-out top sellers on the Xbox?

Maybe that's why it's going away for a re-design.

[McCoy]

There seem to be a lot of people excusing Rare recent performance to the fact that M$ want them to deliver on Xbox 2 which could well be the reason but I don't think that excuses the fact that none of thier recent games have been of great qaulity, that they have only been able to ship 2 Next gen games so far (compare that to what i would imagine is a similar size company in rockstar and how many games they have been able to churn out, hell even criteron which by all accounts has a tiny team have been able to churn out 3 fantastic genre breaking games so far and has one mor egame in develpment at the mo).

Now I'm not saying Rare won't come back and deliver a 'sucker punch' as someone interestingly called it, I'm just saying on thier recent performance I have to doubt if they still have the qaulity to make good games and how many games they can make.

On the N64 they were able to churn out triple A games every year. Compare that tot he situation now and you have to wonder what the hell happened and the excuse that they are developing everything for the Xbox 2 could be valid but for me that in no way makes up for the fact that in this generation of consoles they have only put 2 middling games out.

If I told you on THQ's recent performance they were going to start publishing triple A games every year would you beleave me?

[f2097]

I dont think rare deserve all the critisism. So what if they havent made that many games recently, there are still going which is more than can be said for a lot of other british developers. They are probably working on xbox2 stuff and there are worse things for microsoft to waste its money on than rare.

We havent seen anything of them yet that wasnt originally in development as a nintendo game :/ Although I feel GBTG is one of this generations most underrated games. There hasnt really been anything like it in terms of gameplay. Its great fun, looks amazing, easy to get to grips with, has loads of extras, the script is actually funny in places and provides something the xbox never had before.

[squirtle]

There seem to be a lot of people excusing Rare recent performance to the fact that M$ want them to deliver on Xbox 2 which could well be the reason but I don't think that excuses the fact that none of thier recent games have been of great qaulity, that they have only been able to ship 2 Next gen games so far (compare that to what i would imagine is a similar size company in rockstar and how many games they have been able to churn out, hell even criteron which by all accounts has a tiny team have been able to churn out 3 fantastic genre breaking games so far and has one mor egame in develpment at the mo).

Now I'm not saying Rare won't come back and deliver a 'sucker punch' as someone interestingly called it, I'm just saying on thier recent performance I have to doubt if they still have the qaulity to make good games and how many games they can make.

On the N64 they were able to churn out triple A games every year. Compare that tot he situation now and you have to wonder what the hell happened and the excuse that they are developing everything for the Xbox 2 could be valid but for me that in no way makes up for the fact that in this generation of consoles they have only put 2 middling games out.

If I told you on THQ's recent performance they were going to start publishing triple A games every year would you beleave me?

Why do people have to excuse them, or attack them, at all? So they haven't released many games this gen. So? Thia affects you how exactly? It's not like there aren't enough bloody games about to buy at the moment, is there? Surely it's down to MS and Rare as to what is going on and what their plans are. I'm just surprised at how worked up some people get about these things.

[biglime]

Miyamoto said "A delayed game is eventually good. A shit game is Wind Waker forever," or words to that effect.

Why can't we extend the same suck-uppyness to Rare that we often do to Miyamoto-sannies?

Mm?

[dam_aks]

Miyamoto said "A delayed game is eventually good. A shit game is Wind Waker forever," or words to that effect.

Why can't we extend the same suck-uppyness to Rare that we often do to Miyamoto-sannies?

Mm?

His are usally worth the wait. To be fair he has never really been quite this bad.

[Venice Cull]

His are usally worth the wait. To be fair he has never really been quite this bad.

Yeah? Where's Jungle Emporer Leo then eh? Hmmmm?

[roadkill]

Although I feel GBTG is one of this generations most underrated games. There hasnt really been anything like it in terms of gameplay. Its great fun, looks amazing, easy to get to grips with, has loads of extras, the script is actually funny in places and provides something the xbox never had before.

GBTG looks awful.

The lead character is the least appealing I've seen in years.