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9 hours ago, yakumo said:

Interesting article about DC's failed New 52 reboot, well worth reading.

 

https://www.polygon.com/comics/22679756/dc-comics-reboot-new-52-writers-oral-history

 

Thanks for that, it's a long ass read but well worth it. 

 

Nice to see some of DC's golden children going on the record there, but I suppose if you've got a lengthy contract with them, they can't do anything to shut you down. 

 

Dido seems to be shouldering a lot of it from what I've read so far.

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Urgh.  This plague of continuity is killing them.


I guess there are a bunch of hardcore fans, core customers, who are into the labyrinthine endless continuity, and they'll lose them if they dump it all, which they can't afford to do.  But they're desperate for new readers, so try to come up with ways to reset / invalidate the continuity so new readers can come on board without knowing all the previous ins and outs.


It's a right mess. 

 

Just do something new.

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Definitely. The constant rewrites & efforts to explain DC continuity are painful. I just gave up on their books as it’s such a mess, every year there would be some stupid event to try & realign everything. Each one worse then the last. 
 

if they just forgot about it nobody would care. 

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13 hours ago, yakumo said:

Interesting article about DC's failed New 52 reboot, well worth reading.

 

https://www.polygon.com/comics/22679756/dc-comics-reboot-new-52-writers-oral-history

 

Quote

By the last month of the New 52, DC’s share of the comic book direct market had fallen to 26.34 percent — down from its 34.76 percent share the month before the New 52 had launched in 2011 — while the rest of the direct market had grown significantly in the interim.

 

Dan DiDio: [...] Ultimately, where we finished, we’re still at a better point than where we started, you know?

 

:unsure: 

 

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3 hours ago, Ste Pickford said:

Urgh.  This plague of continuity is killing them.


I guess there are a bunch of hardcore fans, core customers, who are into the labyrinthine endless continuity, and they'll lose them if they dump it all, which they can't afford to do.  But they're desperate for new readers, so try to come up with ways to reset / invalidate the continuity so new readers can come on board without knowing all the previous ins and outs.


It's a right mess. 

 

Just do something new.

There's a way of paying superficial lip service to continuity while doing your own thing and not be overtly beholden to it. Then the idea adds something cool but doesn't spoil the book. These big continuity reset events imho achieve the exact opposite of what they're promising to do - by putting a big focus on your reset and how everything now fits together, your stories get shackled by every little detail. It's far better imho to use whatever you want from decades past and simply handwave away/ignore whatever you don't.

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Case in point (of course this would be my example): Al Ewing and Immortal Hulk. Ewing uses a lot of obscure and lesser known ideas from the last 6 decades to make something new and exciting and cool. Even moreso than any Hulk writer before him. The references are awesome if you spot 'em but the story is standalone and works just as well without them - everything you need to know is laid out and told within this current story.

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

Case in point (of course this would be my example): Al Ewing and Immortal Hulk. Ewing uses a lot of obscure and lesser known ideas from the last 6 decades to make something new and exciting and cool. Even moreso than any Hulk writer before him. The references are awesome if you spot 'em but the story is standalone and works just as well without them - everything you need to know is laid out and told within this current story.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I think you are spot on.  Delving into the 60, 70s years of history for nuggets and details is a really neat way of making the best use of all that past material, allowing you to make something richer, and reward the fans, rather than something that weighs a story down.


But it should be optional, not a straightjacket.

 

History is fine, not so much endless continuity.

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23 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

There's a way of paying superficial lip service to continuity while doing your own thing and not be overtly beholden to it. Then the idea adds something cool but doesn't spoil the book. These big continuity reset events imho achieve the exact opposite of what they're promising to do - by putting a big focus on your reset and how everything now fits together, your stories get shackled by every little detail. It's far better imho to use whatever you want from decades and simply handwave away/ignore whatever you don't.

 

AKA "doing a Doctor Who."

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In preparation for Providence, I re-read Neonomicon and my previous view still stands. It's a good story with a clever ending and it's incredibly effective at creating an atmosphere of dread, but I don't think this justifies the 15 - 20 pages of the protagonist being graphically and violently raped. It's too much for me, and (in my view) it's too much for the story - it's a schlocky cosmic horror story, which is completely overpowered by the rape sequence. 

 

Still, I'm enjoying Providence so far! The art looks like generic modern comic artwork at first glance, but is remarkably effective at melting away and actually letting the story play out.

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The Steve Ditko estate (and other creators' families) are in copyright litigation with Marvel:

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/marvel-suing-avengers-copyright-termination-1235020110/

 

The creators' heirs are being represented by the same lawyer who represented the Siegel and Shuster families against DC, and Disney are represented by the same lawyer who represented DC. What a small world it is at the Big Two!

 

 

 

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It'll never happen as much as we want it too. All the estate want will be more money like is the case with all of these things. 

 

Am I right in thinking that's why Superboy got killed off somewhere instead of Nightwing in case they had to pay more to use the character or something along those lines. 

Edited by Arn X Treme
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This is what I was thinking of :-

Quote

In another copyright-superhero twist, the young or alternate version of Superman, known as Superboy, has also had name problems. The estate of one of Jerry Siegel, the original creators of Superman, sued DC claiming that it owned “the original ‘Superboy’ character” and that it “is an independent creation that used ideas from Jerry Siegel’s original rejected pitch and was created without his consent.” In 2006, a judge ruled “that Jerry Siegel’s heirs had the right to revoke their copyright assignment to Superboy and had successfully reclaimed the trademark to the name as of November 17, 2004.”

“Since the ruling, the name “Superboy” has rarely been used in print to refer to any version of the character,” and the Superboy character (in his current “Superboy-Prime” variation) started being referred to as Superman-Prime.

Ah, freedom of speech, wherefore art thou!

 

And another article here:-

 

https://www.cbr.com/superboy-copyright-faq/

Edited by Arn X Treme
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If the Ditko estate wins literally nothing will change for consumers because the character is too big and profitable. It's just that Disney will have to pay royalties to the Ditko estate for using him. Which will have barely any impact on their overall mahoosive profits.

 

Nerds on the internet are convinced that everything will get cancelled and they will never get to see No Way Home or play Spiderman 2 or read another comic. So they're siding with the big faceless evil megacorp.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

If the Ditko estate wins literally nothing will change for consumers because the character is too big and profitable. It's just that Disney will have to pay royalties to the Ditko estate for using him. Which will have barely any impact on their overall mahoosive profits.

 

Nerds on the internet are convinced that everything will get cancelled and they will never get to see No Way Home or play Spiderman 2 or read another comic. So they're siding with the big faceless evil megacorp.

Yup only two outcomes to this

 

a) the heirs don't win

b) the heirs get money and Marvel keeps making the content

 

However, if Kirby estate couldn't win and he created more characters for Marvel than Dikto, then sadly they have no chance. Even though Dikto's Spiderman is the one I adore, growing up reading reprints in the UK Exploits of Spiderman magazine?.

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3 minutes ago, yakumo said:

Yup only two outcomes to this

 

a) the heirs don't win

b) the heirs get money and Marvel keeps making the content

 

However, if Kirby estate couldn't win and he created more characters for Marvel than Dikto, then sadly they have no chance. Even though Dikto's Spiderman is the one I adore, growing up reading reprints in the UK Exploits of Spiderman magazine?.

Some are saying that Marvel just needs to prove that it was work for hire. If that's true, I don't think they have a chance as the way I understood it Stan Lee already had the name: Spider-Man. He then asked Kirby to design a character with that name. That design is out there and it was shit. Lee then asked Ditko, and Ditko then created everything else about the character. Everything except the name. But given that Lee asked him to do so for an existing name, surely establishes the work for hire argument beyond doubt?

 

On the other hand, the Ditko estate wouldn't chance it if they didn't think they at least had a shot. So who knows.

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

Some are saying that Marvel just needs to prove that it was work for hire. If that's true, I don't think they have a chance as the way I understood it Stan Lee already had the name: Spider-Man. He then asked Kirby to design a character with that name. That design is out there and it was shit. Lee then asked Ditko, and Ditko then created everything else about the character. Everything except the name. But given that Lee asked him to do so for an existing name, surely establishes the work for hire argument beyond doubt?

 

On the other hand, the Ditko estate wouldn't chance it if they didn't think they at least had a shot. So who knows.

 

 

 

Yeah Marvel/Disney is claiming that the contracts specified that the hired creator would make characters/comics for Marvel, meaning that the characters are actually Marvel's property and not the creator's. Marvel's argument is the most correct given that was exactly how contracts worked in the comics industry for the Big 2 (and continues to work in this manner). That's entirely the reason why the independent comic industry exists- the creators would be able to profit off of their own work while getting published. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, yakumo said:

However, coincidence Doctor Strange is already dead in the new comic,

 

I loved the last page twist at the end of that. Cheesy and obvious but seems like it's promising fun

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So Amazing Spider-Man #74. Kindred ends!

 

Spoiler

And that's it. They literally just "End" - Mephisto stops stops blocking their regeneration and it's over.

 

While it's nice Sins Past is "gone", in the end Kindred felt like years of build up to a damp ending. Teases abound, and expectations were high. To be fair they could probably never be met - but this felt like a bad version of it.

 

'Harry' was just a clone (gonna need to think how that fits in). Mephisto reveals, kind of, why he's been involved in Peter/MJ's life. The fight is XX pages, but whomever is winning depends on who needs to do so narratively. It didn't really feel like an "epic" fight, just lots of punch panels. 

 

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