Jump to content

The Watchtower - A thread for all comics

biglime

By biglime,
in Arts & Literature

 Share

Recommended Posts

Zappster

Zappster

Posted
Posted

Yeah, it's great. I'm a little worried about it though, particularly with the news about Karen Berger leaving her position at Vertigo. I gathered that Mieville wanted to work with her expressly and so it makes me wonder what's in store for the series. As long as he can see the series through as he envisioned it I'll be happy with that. With all the stories you hear about DC editorial though... :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hexx

Hexx

Posted
Posted

Sabe's earlier post about the best place to start with Spider-Man got me wondering, as it goes. Yeah, there's loads of classic/iconic Batman and X-Men stories, but I'm honestly having a hard time thinking of more than a couple of similarly iconic tales involving most other big names like Spider-Man, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. Honestly, I'd suggest there's more classic stuff out there for guys like Thor and Daredevil than those three.

The Gwen Stacy/Green Goblin thing, Kraven's Last Hunt are all I've got for Spidey, there's not really anything in the same league as Batman's multitude of stuff (anyone who says 'CLONE SAGA!!!11' gets a punch in the cock). Similarly, All Star Superman, Whatever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow, maybe Red Son and The Death of (if you're feeling generous) for big blue, and even then, the best ones are Elseworlds stuff.

Why is that, do you think?

In a word : Marvel (And JQ in particular).

1) Spider-man is a commodity for them, and front and centre he's aimed at kids (or at least being family friendly). While Batman (for example) can get into extra dark, more mature stories Spider-man (At least) is kept away from them. Which isn't to say you can't tell good stories, but certainly limits writers options.

2) Every big story is "Things will never be the same again". If you think of pretty much every heavily pushed Spider story in recent memory (OMIT, BND, OMD, Back In Black, Civil War, The Other, Dissembled) they're all "changing the status quo". They're all shocking new twists. They're all universe shaking and redefining. They're all redundent (pretty much) by the the next story comes along a year later and "Things will never be the same again AGAIN". It's hard to care about events when you know there's going to be next to no follow through. There's also the fact that most of these feel editorially mandated and simply to change A to B, without really worrying about a good story. ("People liked that Spiderman Movie. He has organic webshooters in it...people might be confused if they see he doesn't in the comics. How shall we do this? Let's have him turn into a giant spider and give birth to himself? Excellent. Lunch time!")

3) Legacy. DC (in general) do their characters Legacy and impact better. Look at GL, and the follow ups. Look at Batman and "The Bat Family" now...hell even Superman had S-Boy/Girl/Dog/Steele etc. Marvel, and Spiderman in particular, seem very opposed to their characters growing or evolving. (See: OMD). It's not true for every Marvel character (FF has done it well recently), but it certainly seem that they worry people will get confused if Peter changes too much...which oddly enough leads to;

4) Peter has changed too much. Or more accurately Peter's world has. Gone's the Bugle. Gone (ish) is MJ. Gone is the slacker making ends meet photographing himself. Peter now works for the best "Think Tank" in the world and plays with billions of dollars worth of toys everyday. He lived in Avengers tower (briefly.). He's got a sassy cop girl friend who's sassy and smart (she worked out who Pete is!).

3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Talvalin

Talvalin

Posted
Posted

Hexx nails it on the head, and yet I still keep on reading the comics in the hope that we'll see something good again. I have fond-ish memories of the cosmic stories, where Spider-Man gets powered up so much he can take out the Hulk in a single punch, which means that all the ridiculously super-powered villains come after him at which point he loses all that power. In view of Hexx's post, it's just another variation on the "Things will never be the same again".

I doubt it was ever collected, but J M DeMatteis and Sal Buscema's run on Spectacular Spider-Man (#178-#203) is worth tracking down as that did go in a darker direction. Depressingly enough, that was back in 1991.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zappster

Zappster

Posted
Posted

@Hexx

The last two points don't really correspond. Marvel are opposed to change with Spider-man and yet they've changed too much? I don't get it.

I actually liked the direction with Horizon Labs because some of my favourite Slott stories have revolved around it (such as "I Killed Tomorrow"). Peter's always been a smart guy, maybe not on the level of someone like Reed Richards, but still capable, so why not put that to use. And the stuff with Carlie has also moved on. I mean even the stuff now in ASM #700 and continuing into Superior Spider-man is as a result of changes they've made to Doctor Octopus as far back as the Dark Reign storylines IIRC.

The thing is there's no real end-game for superhero comics from DC and Marvel. They're going to continue to serialize stories about these characters for as long as the publishing arms exist and they make money. That's going to mean that changes are transitory because who knows what the next creative & editorial team will do, what changes they'll keep from the previous run and what they'll throw out.

I suppose that's why I tend to follow certain creative teams rather than characters, and when I do follow characters they tend to be in a niche where they are generally allowed to do their own thing with a bit more freedom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hexx

Hexx

Posted
Posted

@Hexx

The last two points don't really correspond. Marvel are opposed to change with Spider-man and yet they've changed too much? I don't get it.

I actually liked the direction with Horizon Labs because some of my favourite Slott stories have revolved around it (such as "I Killed Tomorrow"). Peter's always been a smart guy, maybe not on the level of someone like Reed Richards, but still capable, so why not put that to use. And the stuff with Carlie has also moved on. I mean even the stuff now in ASM #700 and continuing into Superior Spider-man is as a result of changes they've made to Doctor Octopus as far back as the Dark Reign storylines IIRC.

The thing is there's no real end-game for superhero comics from DC and Marvel. They're going to continue to serialize stories about these characters for as long as the publishing arms exist and they make money. That's going to mean that changes are transitory because who knows what the next creative & editorial team will do, what changes they'll keep from the previous run and what they'll throw out.

I suppose that's why I tend to follow certain creative teams rather than characters, and when I do follow characters they tend to be in a niche where they are generally allowed to do their own thing with a bit more freedom.

I get that. I suppose my point was sort of two things:

1) A lot of the recognizable stuff has gone, which makes it harder (but not impossible) to be as emotionally attached/invested the the newer story lines.

2) There's a disconnect between who Pete should be given his world, and who Marvel have kept it as. Maybe if you think back to the late 90s/early 00s (might be getting the years wrong). Peter was (in rough summary); Married to a Super-Model, a well respected Photographer (with Coffee Table books published), associated with Premier Super Hero Teams (if not actually on them actively) - but they still presented it as "Peter with Parker-Luck", Hard to do Pete, the nerd, outcast etc etc.

I've liked the evolution of Pete's world (I preferred his Teaching to Horizon Labs though) - but it depresses me they still want the same basic Peter/Spiderman within that world. And even when they are huge changes you know they'll be regressed quickly.

Spider-man does have some very competent/good/consistent runs (JMS I like until towards the end), but I think the fact he's so "normalised" by editorial policy makes it hard to think of a "definitive story"

4
Link to comment
Share on other sites
moosegrinder

moosegrinder

Posted
Posted

Bumper haul of TPBs this Christmas. Got Walking Dead 5 and 6 which I burned through in one evening (consistently great). Have they said when the series is ending? I know it's up to about Vol 17 in TPB and issue 100+.

How, oh my fucking word HOW did it take so long for me to receive Transmetropolitan? HOW?! It's so, so fucking good.

Also got the TMNT Micro-series TPBs. Really happy with the rate that IDW are bringing out the TMNT stuff, makes a change to Marvel/DC.

The only downside was I had Ultimate Invincible 6 and 7 on my wishlist and my sister got me 7 but not 6. Nay mind, it's the thought that counts and 6 is processing for dispatch now :D

1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rumblecat

rumblecat

Posted
Posted

Got Walking Dead 5 and 6 which I burned through in one evening (consistently great). Have they said when the series is ending? I know it's up to about Vol 17 in TPB and issue 100+.

Looks like The Walking Dead won't be ending anytime soon... this is from July 2012 -

Adlard said that the pair have talked about an ending to the series, though whether it happens in two years or 20, who can say? Kirkman said we could possibly watch (one of the children in the series- edited out the name to keep this 100% spoiler free) grow up on the page -- if they don't kill (this child). But even though they have a vague ending in mind, he sees them continuing to do the book well after it's no longer a mainstream hit -- because they "love doing it."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zappster

Zappster

Posted
Posted

Yeah. I doubt they're going to stop any time soon. Pretty sure the idea when they started it was to have it be really long term, sales permitting, and we know how that's panned out. To be honest, I lost interest after the prison/governor stuff. Not sure which issue was my last one. somewhere in the late 40s or 50s I think. I prefer Invincible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Anne Summers

Anne Summers

Posted
Posted

Made my way through a heap of Locke & Key this Christmas. Absolutely love it. I'd read the first tpb a while ago and always meant to read more, but it hadn't excited me enough to want to immediately read everything available.

I don't think I expected too much of it , first time round, so as a result didn't pay it the attention it really deserved when I read it ...

But even though the first episode is really good, it gets much, much better, doesn't it? And by the (near) end it's all come together as a proper epic adventure.

2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sandman

sandman

Posted
Posted

I got some Locke and Key for Xmas and have been re-reading Vols 1-4. Its amazing and, for me at least, rather unique in comics. It uses the medium much better than most comics nowadays.

Has anyone read X111? I read the first of the english re-prints a few days ago and its really good. They seem to be coming out every couple on months in the UK and I am wondering if its better to hold out for a big trade next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.

  I accept