Sega Superstars

[JedEvangelion]

Don't be daft. This no way makes EYETOY more than a gimmick.

There's not still not enough subtlety to the control, and they still haven't got round the fact that most times you'll be knackered after half an hours play. None of those minigames have even a 10th of the content of a full price release, and there's very little subtlety to the gameplay. The device needs fairly stringent environmental settings to work - Correct lighting, plenty of room, and nobody standing or sitting within sight of the camera.

It's a fun diversion, but SUPERSTARS does not elevate the EYETOY to the level where it could replace any other input device convincingly. I'd rather not use it for SAMBA, I'd rather use Maraccas. Fun as it is for VF, I'd still choose to play on a joypad if I was going to try and do well at the game.

Nothing wrong with it being a gimmick, but don't try and pretend it's anything more at the moment, otherwise you run the risk of people on here who only have 1 £30 to spend this month buying it on the strength that it's suddenly become more than the 'gimmick' peripheral it has proven itself to be so far, and complaining at you when they find it's not.

[H_S_H_24]

Right...

I suppose it depends what you mean by gimmick, yes these are mini games, yes you will get tired and everything else. But for me what makes this more than a gimmick (as id describe it) is the quality of those 4 particular mini games, they are just so good, I can see myself playing Samba, VF and Nights particularly for as long as I have my PS2 set up.

THAT is what PLAY didnt offer me, any long term gaming at all, and that is why Superstars is more than a gimmick.

Go off and play Samba with your maracas if you want, but not everyone (in fact hardly anyone) has that option.

When I say its not a gimmick, I mean its elevated itself to the postion of lots of other games that require peripherals, not that it has shown it can replace normal controllers (it obviously cant), or that the mini games are anything other than that.

I guess what it all comes down to is that I actually want to play these games, not just beacuse they use the EyeToy, not because they are novelty fun, but because they are actually fun, and they dont stop being fun after 5 minutes playing them.

[Kramer]

I'd rather not use it for SAMBA, I'd rather use Maraccas.

Surely you can use a pair of proper maracas with the Eyetoy.

What's stopping you?

K.

[JedEvangelion]

Surely you can use a pair of proper maracas with the Eyetoy.

What's stopping you?

K.

Doesn't work as well. Even holding Maraccas in your hand, the actual way it interprets 'hits' isn't as precise. The SAMBA system of gradings has been dumbed down (Cool / ok / good / bad) by necessity, because there's a difference between physically registering a hit at a location by shaking the maracca (as in the original) and passing your hand over an area of space (as in Superstars). Getting a quick 4-shake burst in SUPERSTARS is quite hard to do with the correct, precise timings, although it lets you get away with it as long as you approximate it. It's easy in Samba.

It's just the limitations of the technology; SUPERSTARS uses the Eyetoy better than anything else released for it so far (see my original post - H S H 24, this means you too mate, I certainly ain't dissing the game, you seem to be being a bit adversarial about it) but it's still fundamentally flawed in many ways. Apparently the system they're prototyping for PS3 is much more advanced, which I hope will then prompt people to do more than just create minigame events with it.

HSH, you seem to be taking exception to the word 'gimmick';

"An innovative or unusual mechanical contrivance; a gadget."

What's wrong with that to describe Eyetoy? As far as I'm concerned, until it stops being unusual (that is to say it becomes an accepted, successful input device for a number of games) it'll always be a gimmick. Dancemats, lightguns and steering wheels have stood the test of time; invest in one today and you can be assured that there'll be plenty of titles supporting the peripheral in 2 years time. Maraccas, Fishing Controllers, Steel Battallion controllers, and Eyetoy are gimmicks by my definition. They're fun but limited in use. Nothing wrong with a gimmick, but some people don't want 'novelty' titles like this, where you're paying extra for a peripheral that may not get any other use outside a very narrow range of titles.

To reiterate my original post, I really like Superstars!

[H_S_H_24]

I dont really mean to be too adversarial about it, but I think you are wrong on a few things.

Yes the technology is limited, and yes i assume Samba on EyeToy isnt as precise as Samba with Maracas, but its still a huge amount of fun, and I have to assume because like many many people I will never have the chance to play Samba with Maracas (unless they re-release it over here). But the technology is NOT fundamentally flawed, it works perfectly well.

As for the use of gimmick, I would think most people would say that was a negative thing, and while you are right this is only one game that has now used it well, there is a reason why your comparison with 'Maraccas, Fishing Controllers and Steel Battallion controllers' is flawed...

...price.

Sega Superstars can be bought with an EyeToy camera for £33, its the same price as any other game that doesnt make use of a new controller. The fact is uses the EyeToy is not relevant when deciding if you want to buy it, like it would be in the other cases. It doesnt matter if it never gets used this well again because it doesnt cost anything more than a normal game.

[JedEvangelion]

I've got no problem with you thinking I'm wrong, but personally I don't see what Price has to do with something being a gimmick or not. Price doesn't enter into it, surely? If you bought a fishing rod controller and Sega Bass fishing for £2.99 from Dixons, like I did, you wouldn't say "Oh, it's not a gimmick, because it's only cost me £3". That's just ridiculous. It just makes it a cheap gimmick.

Not saying Eyetoy isn't great value; it is. Not saying it's not fun; it is. I actually think PLAY uses it very well too for the most part, but Superstars uses it better.

But I challenge you to recommend SEGA SUPERSTARS to anyone on this forum with a straight face when they ask you if it's still gimmicky. Of course it is. It's a collection of minigames that use the Eyetoy. In that respect, the product hasn't moved on from any previous EYETOY game. The minigames are better but it's still just a fun Party game that has very little long-term single-player appeal.

There's not a game on there that has enough depth and content to satisfy any kind of experienced gamer for any decent amount of time. It's 12 minigames in a package, half of which aren't that great. It uses a peripheral that has issues - it's bloody clever, but it does NOT work 'perfectly'. I love my Eyetoy, I recommend it to loads of people. But I make damn sure they know exactly what it is, and about what longevity the games offer. And every time I demo it I have to explain to people about 'be careful not to get on the screen, you'll interrupt someone elses play", and "you might have problems with it registering hits on certain locations unless you get the lighting level set just so". Even if someone flashes their car lights outside or if a police car drives past it can cast lights on the wall that will bugger up your game. Lucky you if you don't have these problems, but I suspect you must have encountered things like that at some point.

Come on, it's perfectly normal to be critical about something while still liking it.

[H_S_H_24]

The minigames are better but it's still just a fun Party game that has very little long-term single-player appeal.

You see that is what I completely disagree with.

Over the past week I must have spent 10 hours at least playing this game. On my own. Thats something I never would have done with Play.

It does have long-term single player appeal.

but it does NOT work 'perfectly'

I agree, but thats rather different from saying...

it's still fundamentally flawed in many ways

I agree it has problems, but they havent really effected in anyway my enjoyment of this game.

I would without hesitation recommend this game to anyone, its quite clear that its 12 mini games you are getting for your money and not some adventure game, Nights, Virtua Fighter and Samba in particular I can see having ridiculously long single player appeal for me, Im sure ill be setting up my EyeToy for a go at Samba long after ive finished with games like Fable (for example).

Can you not see why I think its so much more than Play?

[JedEvangelion]

Can you not see why I think its so much more than Play?

Yes. I didn't know we were discussing that. Last I was aware, you were arguing that this game made Eyetoy no longer a gimmick.

Anyway, this is all pointless and quite dull. Result: I don't think it does elevate it above the level of 'Gimmick'. HSH24 Does. And we both think it's the best Eyetoy game so far.

[H_S_H_24]

Yes. I didn't know we were discussing that. Last I was aware, you were arguing that this game made Eyetoy no longer a gimmick.

Anyway, this is all pointless and quite dull. Result: I don't think it does elevate it above the level of 'Gimmick'. HSH24 Does. And we both think it's the best Eyetoy game so far.

Yep I agree, quite dull.

If you didnt quite get my reasoning, I think it raises the EyeToy above the level of gimmick because of the single player appeal I have found in it.

Im off to play some more Samba now.

[Harmunt]

Annoyingly, I have a sealed copy of this game on my desk as I type.

However, I can't play it for two reasons -

1. It's a Christmas present for my nephew

2. I don't own a PS2