The Sims 2

[Rayn]

So who is getting this? Seriously?

The Sims must be one of the most loved AND loathed game in history. Those who don't like The Sims really have issues with it, it seems.

After numerous previews in several magazines and online sites the last year or so I must admit the The Sims 2 is a game I'm very curious about. I am getting it no matter what, most of all because my GF loved the original game.

I played the first one a bit as well but got bored with it after the home was built. The building/layout bit was the most fun for me. I got bored with the rest because I never found the time to keep the sims satisfied in all areas as well as getting them to do the stuff I wanted them to...

So here is me hoping that The Sims 2 will iron out the niggles from the original game and that the first package is so full with details and stuff to do that we won't need an expansion pack within the first 6 months.

[Salsa Party Animal]

It this game mean you can play Barbie dolls on CPU.

What it does have to offer for male gamers.

[PaB]

The sims did suffer from the same affliction that paluged Shenmue - on on a greater scale.

I have to go out to work every day, and come home, tidy up and cook dinner etc. Why in the name of blue fuck do I want to spend what spare time I do have, simulating the exact same chores I have just been doing.

Having said that, it was enjoyable planning the house and all that.

I want to like Sims 2, because the added depth, and ageing etc, should make for a involving game. Its just, well, what's the point?

[Rayn]

The sims did suffer from the same affliction that paluged Shenmue - on on a greater scale.

I have to go out to work every day, and come home, tidy up and cook dinner etc. Why in the name of blue fuck do I want to spend what spare time I do have, simulating the exact same chores I have just been doing.

Having said that, it was enjoyable planning the house and all that.

I want to like Sims 2, because the added depth, and ageing etc, should make for a involving game. Its just, well, what's the point?

The Sims isn't about the second coming. What's the point? Well, maybe there isn't one but there is still something exciting abut flirting with the neighbours wife while your own wife is at work.

It is great fun to try to kill that bastard who is hitting on your wife.

You can do stuff in The Sims that you want to do in real life, but in the game it doesn't have the consequences it would've had if you did the same things in real life.

There are tons of games where you could sit down and wonder; "Whats the point?" Why would I pilot a spaceship and destroy wave upon wave of slimy aliens? It's not real so whats the point? The great thing about games is that they simulate worlds that are not real. You can travel to those universers from the comfort of your sofa/chair, and get back to real life when you're satisfied.

The Sims 2 gives you the possibility to live another life, it can simulate your alter ego (the sadistic side of you or the romantic side...whichever you're not in real life) and that is reason enough for me to play the game.

[Cyhwuhx]

.::: I was one of those persons who picked the first one up on release. I was intrigued by the concept and actually still am. The Sims seemed to suffer from not having weekends, the amount of free time was actually too little.

There also was this need to coordinate everything in the game. Even cheating the autonomy to it's max didn't make them think properly for themselves. In the end I could only enjoy the first one by cheating my arse off with money and such.

From what I can garner about part 2, all these niggles ahve been fixed and then some. I don't care that it has become The Female Game. The concept was and still is strong, I'll get it at release definitely. If only to see wether the concept can work after tweaking.

[Wonkey Donkey]

What it does have to offer for male gamers.

More than all the bang bang shooty shooty, drive really fast, punch them in the face, he shoots he scores! 'masculine' games do for female gamers, I'll bet.

[Jack]

It this game mean you can play Barbie dolls on CPU.

As opposed to playing Action Man through Splinter Cell, Full Spectrum Warrior, Metal Gear Solid, and the like?

[The Liberal Elite]

Where's the Gamecube version? fucking typical, eh? It's not dead yet, EA, however much you wish it were so!

[Cyhwuhx]

Where's the Gamecube version? fucking typical, eh? It's not dead yet, EA, however much you wish it were so!

.:::

[The Liberal Elite]

.:::

I'm just filling in for jack and beertiger until they turn up.

[Jack]

I'm just filling in for jack and beertiger until they turn up.

The console versions of The Sims are absolutely terrible. I liked playing the original PC game ages ago, but I've no desire to buy all the expansion packs separately.

[hughes]

The Sims paved the way for Animal Crossing, I'd imagine quite a lot of this forum are grateful.

[Guest]

So who is getting this? Seriously?

The Sims must be one of the most loved AND loathed game in history. Those who don't like The Sims really have issues with it, it seems.

After numerous previews in several magazines and online sites the last year or so I must admit the The Sims 2 is a game I'm very curious about. I am getting it no matter what, most of all because my GF loved the original game.

I played the first one a bit as well but got bored with it after the home was built. The building/layout bit was the most fun for me. I got bored with the rest because I never found the time to keep the sims satisfied in all areas as well as getting them to do the stuff I wanted them to...

So here is me hoping that The Sims 2 will iron out the niggles from the original game and that the first package is so full with details and stuff to do that we won't need an expansion pack within the first 6 months.

It's on pre-order. Can't wait! Is there an online option.

We HAVE to make an RLLMUK household *

The question is...will Juria feature?

*edit - which reminds me, I did something similar for my own work mates when the first sims came out. It was great...until Manager gary started to cook (I thought he could put something on for everyone). I didn't realise you needed cooking skills. I took lots of pictures as he set fire to the kitchen, and everyone just stood around screaming. I got Dan to phone the fire services, who dealt with the blaze promptly.

Then they all ordered pizza, and the meal was saved.

I quite enjoyed a bug in this first version, which could see people get stuck in certain situations. For me it was three guys. One was on a sofa, and two attempted to pass him in opposite directions - through a small gap. They locked fast, and try as I might, I could not shift them.

For days no one could move. It was tragic seeing Richard piss himself over and over, crying into his hands in despair. But he was soon out of his misery - as he dropped down dead.

This freed up Marco, who had been stuck on the sofa for days. He made a break for the bedroom, exhausted despite being sat down for so long. He defecated once on the floor on the way back to his room, but finally made it into bed.

Meanwhile the other chap (can't remember his name) was hot on his heels - but he too had been standing up. He fell down dead just four feet from the bedroom.

Hours later Marco awoke. He was starving, I could tell - but at last he was rested. He got up out of bed...and again keeled over. No food or water for the best park of a week had seen him off.

The first sims became a little sameish for me after a while, so I really hope the Sims 2 has a lot more fun and death to it

[Rayn]

Where's the Gamecube version? fucking typical, eh? It's not dead yet, EA, however much you wish it were so!

The only Sims related title I know of for the GC is The Urbz, which is a difrent game.

[Cyhwuhx]

It's on pre-order. Can't wait! Is there an online option.

We HAVE to make an RLLMUK household

The question is...will Juria feature?

.::: Well if SeanR or Alex W. get in it, we need them to be constantly behind a PC making posts.

[snk]

Is this PC only? Or is it out or coming out on any consoles?

[The Liberal Elite]

I really, REALLY didn't get the sims. I bought it, played it for a bit and did a couple of easy houses, but the stupid cunts managed to, without fail, kill themselves EVERY TIME they tried to cook something.

I liked trapping them in a room with no doors or windows though.

[Cyhwuhx]

Is this PC only? Or is it out or coming out on any consoles?

.::: PC only, consoles get 'watered down' versions because console-players obviously can't cope with all the decision making and such.

And they are godawful btw.

[Guest]

I really, REALLY didn't get the sims. I bought it, played it for a bit and did a couple of easy houses, but the stupid cunts managed to, without fail, kill themselves EVERY TIME they tried to cook something.

I liked trapping them in a room with no doors or windows though.

It's basically a soap opera but with you in control. That's why women loved it.

Do we get pets? I want a bouncer.

[MK-1601]

More than all the bang bang shooty shooty, drive really fast, punch them in the face, he shoots he scores! 'masculine' games do for female gamers, I'll bet.

What a ridiculously sexist comment.

'Traditional' (i.e. 'fun') genres of games appeal equally to both genders, providing the members of said genders enjoy playing games. Over-enthusiastic testosterone-fueled artwork can easily be overlooked.

The Sims appeals mainly to people who aren't very comfortable with games or computers. Older people, young girls, academics. The core concept is sound (I'd even let it be described as 'genius' without protesting too loudly), the implementation of that concept fails on every conceivable level in 'game' terms. Horrible interface, poor production values, badly thought-out simulation model, zero AI, repetitive, limiting, no sense of progression or reward and worst of all no way to express yourself in any remotely satisfying way with your creations (compare Sim City, Animal Crossing, Civilisation, etc.), allowing them to dangle the carrot of making the game interesting over half a dozen expansion packs.

So no, I'm not really interested in The Sims 2. Unless Maxis do a complete 180 and actually make a game that offers something that game players can enjoy as well as 'casuals'.

[PaB]

You can do stuff in The Sims that you want to do in real life, but in the game it doesn't have the consequences it would've had if you did the same things in real life.

I'm not sure I agree. You do have to do certain things in the Sims, or there are consequnces. You have to work, get a job, you have to clean up, you have to sleep, you have to eat, you have to read, watch tv - etc etc - If you don;t do these things there are consequences.

I do think there is an extremely interesting game in there somewhere, and no doubt, the promise of experiementing with real life situation is welcome. However, I just wish Maxis would offer this, without the necessity of doing everyday chores. Why can we not just assume that our sim eats, sleeps and tidies up, goes to work etc, and then we can concentrate on the fun things.

[JedEvangelion]

..repetitive, limiting, no sense of progression or reward and worst of all no way to express yourself in any remotely satisfying way with your creations

You advance your chosen career to buy more stuff that makes your life easier, you expand your house, you get to redecorate and re-dress your sim(s), and improve your social standing.

Surely that's exactly the same sense of progression and reward that most people judge their real life worth by? Is this less rewarding than 'unlocking' some other item like a car or a racetrack or a new costume in another game?

And isn't the whole thing of sandbox gaming that it's all one big playpen, and as such it's all one big personal expression? Add to that the photo album (and the video editor in the Sims 2) and surely that's a much more freeform and satisfying way of being creative than most other games? I regularly take a peek at my GF's ongoing Sims saga, because the stories that she tells in words and pictures frequently have me in stitches. Man, that's really creative, even more so than the letter writing in Animal Crossing, for example.

[MK-1601]

You advance your chosen career to buy more stuff that makes your life easier, you expand your house, you get to redecorate and re-dress your sim(s), and improve your social standing.

Surely that's exactly the same sense of progression and reward that most people judge their real life worth by?

...

The Sims essentially gives you two options. Play the game exactly as the developers have decreed, or let the game reach a stalemate. Choosing option 1 allows you to buy new items (all of which are available from the outset), which add nothing to the experience of playing the game.

The game *should* be a sandpit, but the simulation is too impoverished (it's the polar opposite of Sim City 2000 in that respect), and the tools to using it to this end (like the photo editor) are underdeveloped.

[The Liberal Elite]

The fact that it's captured the imaginations of millions of people in the way that the 'real' games that we play have is about a million times more important than the fact that it has shoddy ai, TBH.

[snk]

I havent played a PC game since Black and White. How would a game like this run on a Dell Laptop P4 1.6 256 ram 64MB geforce card.

[Rayn]

I havent played a PC game since Black and White. How would a game like this run on a Dell Laptop P4 1.6 256 ram 64MB geforce card.

I think you'll be able to run the game at a bearable speed.

System requirements:

Maxis has released information on the system requirements for "The Sims 2." If you have a T&L (info about what T&L is below) capable video card with at least 32 MB of video RAM (such as nvidia GeForce 2 or better or ATI Radeon 7000 or better) then you need at least:

600 MHz P3 processor

256 MB RAM if Windows XP

128 MB RAM if Windows 98, Windows ME, or Windows 2000

EDIT: You may also download this benchmark program to test if your system is ready for The Sims 2-

[Cyhwuhx]

...

The Sims essentially gives you two options. Play the game exactly as the developers have decreed, or let the game reach a stalemate. Choosing option 1 allows you to buy new items (all of which are available from the outset), which add nothing to the experience of playing the game.

The game *should* be a sandpit, but the simulation is too impoverished (it's the polar opposite of Sim City 2000 in that respect), and the tools to using it to this end (like the photo editor) are underdeveloped.

.::: Have you been reading a fair bit about The Sims 2 because it now sounds like you didn't....

[Wonkey Donkey]

'Traditional' (i.e. 'fun') genres of games appeal equally to both genders, providing the members of said genders enjoy playing games. Over-enthusiastic testosterone-fueled artwork can easily be overlooked.

I see what you're saying and I want to believe it.

However, if you really believe that anyone but the hardcore (and I'm not just talking videogames here) looks at anything much below the surface when making purchasing/lifestyle decisions, I thnk you're deluding yourself.

But then, I'm just a cynic.

[Popo]

It this game mean you can play Barbie dolls on CPU.

What it does have to offer for male gamers.

Hey, I don't remember anyone questioning Animal Crossings merits (which, incidentally, I thought was SHITE).

Seriously, and maybe I'm over-reacting, but just because it's not made by Nintendo and is popular in the west, a game like the Sims seems to come under undue scrutiny. I whipped it out again last week and found how brilliant it was after failing to get into it properly the first time. It's like Animal Crossing except there's an objective and stuff to do (and yea, IMO, is actually fun).

It's true that there isn't enough time in the day to really feel satisfied that you're keeping up with your Sims needs, so I hope that gets fixed for the new one. The (some might say dubious) objectives of the game, of making friends, getting an excellent job, improving your Sims skills and improving your standard of living/getting a bigger house are where the game gives you opportunity to progress so as long as that's all in there, I can't see them going wrong.

[JedEvangelion]

The Sims essentially gives you two options. Play the game exactly as the developers have decreed, or let the game reach a stalemate. Choosing option 1 allows you to buy new items (all of which are available from the outset), which add nothing to the experience of playing the game.

The game *should* be a sandpit, but the simulation is too impoverished (it's the polar opposite of Sim City 2000 in that respect), and the tools to using it to this end (like the photo editor) are underdeveloped.

How can a sandpit-styled game reach a stalemate? Basically you can keep advancing indefinitely, so how can it ever reach a deadlock state? There's so much new content available to buy or to download for free that you could conceivably never sample every single item. It's a game that potentially has unending new content.

The items aren't really all available from the outset, are they, because you can't buy them all from the outset. The gameplay dynamic is one of earning coin to buy new items to fill your home. I'd argue that they are the core of the gameplay, at least as far as measurable acheivement goes, so of course they add to the experience of playing the game. As a reward system this works really well, IMO; every new item is a discovery; what does it do? What is the unique animation attatched to it? How does it affect my character when I use it? The majority of items in the game have some effect on your character's stats, so they nearly all have worth, in game terms.

Also, why is the photo editor underdeveloped? I don't think I've ever heard my GF say "why won't this photo mechanism do this or that"? I certainly can't think of anything more they could do with it. It does what it does, it is what it is. It serves it's function perfectly well. Anything you could add would just be extraneous, surely?

I accept your argument that the simulation is impoverished, but that's an argument that can be levelled just as validly at ANY videogame. The Sims isn't like real life. Neither is Gran Turismo or Falcon 4 or Civilisation III. The Sims, by nature of it's subject matter, is tackling arguably one of the most complex natural systems to try and simulate; real life social relationships. It's a long, long way from being believable, and it has it's fair share of design flaws, but we shouldn't berate it for this. At the time of it's release, it was pretty much unprecedented. Hopefully the Sims 2 will have made big steps towards making it more believable and comprehensive. But you can bet your bottom Simolean that even by the time we get to Sims 10, it still won't be properly simulating real life. Real life is pretty complicated, after all.

But in terms of being an entertaining game, Sims 1 was and is, and Sims 2 will most likely be, too. From a purely game design-based point of view it's done a lot right, and made steps in the right direction. It breached a new, huge global market, and was tailored to run on the kind of lower spec machines that that market owned or had access to. I think we should ALL be grateful to it, for opening up a new style of gameplay to the masses. I pray that I am so lucky as to one day design a game that has this kind of impact, this level of sales, and is this original and innovative.

I've got a lot of respect for it, and still enjoy putting it on for a session once every couple of months.