'official Outrun 2 Thread'

[Harmunt]

Exactly.

Q. I'm a pirate, ripping off your hard work. Can you tell me if you've made some bugfixes and tweaks so I can figure out whether to bother ripping those off as well?

A. Fuck off.

  (I know many here are just excited to play it early, and will be buying a copy on release, for Live or not)

I'm not having a go at anyone directly, but I fail too see why honest gamers like myself should be denied an audience with the programmer because of a select few Yarrr forumites. It must be said that he has met with a fair few of these people on the NTSC-UK forum, but was still happy to impart information on the game. That's not to say that he didn't have an opinion on the piracy angle though...

[Graham S]

I'm not having a go at anyone directly, but I fail too see why honest gamers like myself should be denied an audience with the programmer because of a select few Yarrr forumites. It must be said that he has met with a fair few of these people on the NTSC-UK forum, but was still happy to impart information on the game. That's not to say that he didn't have an opinion on the piracy angle though...

Sure, I'd be glad to have the chap on, he seems like a nice bloke. I took the original post as being to find out from him if things had been tweaked since the pirate copy was taken, rather than a more general interview. We're a games forum, not a warez forum, and I genuinely believe that many downloaders who've posted in this thread so far will be buying on release.

[Lovelyman]

Actually I reckon the dev guys know that htere are gonna be some yarrrers of their warez, and feedback from any source is welcome. I know if I ever made a game (rubbish) and some guy (maybe silver rocket) yarred it and told me that they would like it better with XXX(not porn, a unknown factor) I'd try that next time.

[Flint Paper]

Click For Spoiler

Didn't that SOL gent post here before people started to talk about the pirate version?

[Jimmy The Tosser]

Over at NTSC the Sumo guy claims some balancing and tweaking has been done to the final retail version that wasn't in the pirate copy. Dunno if it's true.

I can't find anywhere on NTSC-UK (which I presume is what you mean) where he says that.

[Jimbo]

Try here.

On the point of balance, bear in mind that we did a number of last minute changes, you play downloaded versions, you don't necessarily get the final product

[S0L]

I couldn't have put it better myself... Wait... I did

Right, I'm over here on request of Harmunt. It seems you lot have some questions on the game, and well, since I'm having a relatively quiet Sunday, I'm pop back from time to time and see if they include any I feel like answering

First though, don't bother asking for cheats or 'how do I..?' type questions. Since I can pretty much say with certainty if you are asking, I know that you don't have a legal or final copy, you're not getting any help. I might change my mind after 1st October, but only might...

Otherwise, anything else is fair game.

Get cracking then...

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Sol

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[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

First of all, congratulations on the port. I've played the arcade version a couple of times, and the Xbox version seems almost a carbon copy. No mean feat considering memory issues etc.

Some questions:

1) What concessions did you make to fit the game into the Xbox?

2) Could you re-use original code or was it rewritten? Did Sega give you the source-code of the original game?

3) Which modes are included for Live?

4) How/why did Sega end up with you guys?

5) Any plans to do more future conversions for Sega?

6) How much freedom did you get in designing the Xbox-specific modes?

7) Is working on a port with additional content like this as satisfying as creating a 100% original title from scratch, or is it less/more so?

[Jimmy The Tosser]

Try here.

"Not necessarily" isn't the same as "not"...

[Jimmy The Tosser]

Some questions:

1) What concessions did you make to fit the game into the Xbox?

2) Could you re-use original code or was it rewritten? Did Sega give you the source-code of the original game?

3) Which modes are included for Live?

4) How/why did Sega end up with you guys?

5) Any plans to do more future conversions for Sega?

6) How much freedom did you get in designing the Xbox-specific modes?

7) Is working on a port with additional content like this as satisfying as creating a 100% original title from scratch, or is it less/more so?

Those are some of the most arse-gnawingly dull questions I've ever heard - I could answer most of those right now, and I don't even work for Sumo. No wonder games magazines are all so boring, and developers don't appear on forums more, if that's the sort of thing gamers want to hear about. Please tell me you're taking the piss.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

I could answer most of those right now

Please do.

[S0L]

Cheers

Answers then, well where I can elaborate without breaching NDA that is...

1) Concessions - Not many really. The main thing we had to do was reduce the tracks to fit into the Xboxes memory, which was done via polygon reduction and texture compression. Otherwise it is pretty much intact.

2) Source - We took the Sega code and added to it/changed it where required. Not much I can add to that, though it was interesting for the guys to keep running Japanese comments through the code through Babelfish. Some bits of code needed replacing completely, for example although the Arcade version can be networked, we had to replace this code completely with our own in order to make Live work.

3) Live Modes - A mixture of races, knockout and time attack. Yes, you can race on the bonus tracks too

4) Why Sumo? - I can only speculate. We have Xbox Live experience (we did the online play for Codemasters England International Football) and a long track record, being made up of Gremlin/Infogrames staff. We've also worked a lot with Sega Europe in the past, from a point of view of previous games on DC (ala Wacky Races etc). So experience I would guess, and no doubt our design treatment that stayed within the Outrun Sensibility.

5) More work with Sega - Maybe. Maybe not. You don't really expect an answer to that now do you?

6) Design Content - A lot. Most of the modes were our ideas, but we spent a lot of time working directly with AM2 to make sure we didn't deviate too far from how they see Outrun. In the end, we hope the missions bolster the experience and build skills that you might not necessarily get through just playing the arcade modes.

7) Port / Original Game - We've felt proud and honoured to be part of the Outrun legacy, and I'm sure that if you ask anyone at Sumo, they will feel the same way. We didn't view this project as a simple port, nor I think have Sega or AM2. I hope this is reflected with the experience that people take from the game, even if you can't turn around

Blimey, I managed to get through the lot. I think I'll have cup of tea now

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Sol

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[S0L]

So, JTT, hit me with some gamers questions then...

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Sol

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[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

though it was interesting for the guys to keep running Japanese comments through the code through Babelfish.

I bet that resulted in some great pieces of comment

"The car, it forward move when true is set to flag!"

Thanks for answering my arse-gnawingly dull questions. Cheers.

[Jimmy The Tosser]

Bah, you beat me to it, SOL...

Well, I'd like to know if there's anything else substantial (ie not just new cars and remixed music) hidden in there apart from original OutRun and the two bonus stages. Obviously don't say what it is, just whether there IS anything else or not. (Mirror tracks in addition to reversed ones would be an obvious shout, say.)

Before I kill myself trying, is there any tangible benefit to getting AAA passes instead of AA or As on all the challenge missions?

It'd also be potentially exciting to hear if the arcade semi-sequel (Special Tour) might be coming, either as a standalone game or an addon. (Though I imagine that might at least partly depend how this one sells.)

Most of all I'd like to know how you feel about the game having been leaked, presumably by a magazine. I haven't ever known of a game being widely pirated quite so far in advance of the worldwide release date, does that piss you off? Do you think it might seriously damage sales?

(It'd also be interesting to know just how different the leaked version is from the final one. And if it's significantly different, how do you feel about the earlier one being used as review code, in the light of some recent "scandals" resulting from unfinished versions being reviewed?)

Congrats on a brilliant job. You'll be getting my money, anyway.

[Ludachrist]

Are there just Scud Race and Daytona tracks, or is there Sega Rally as well?

Oh yeah and did you use the original graphics and code for the original tracks from Scud Race and Daytona? It looks like it, the graphics look quite different and worse than the main Outrun game.

Also, the game is guiding you around corners when you're skidding, isn't it?

[Beertiger]

was the decision to drop the traffic from network and live play a technical issue or due to game design.

oh and did anyone get to drive a Ferrari while the game was under development.

[SomeNaiveChump]

about traffic and live play... on the demo when you set up a live game you have to define a few options... traffic *is* there in the options but is greyed out (in the same way as several other options which WON'T be greyed out in the full version)... is this just because it's been left in the demo code or will the option actually be available?

not that it's a biggie, it's great without traffic, but it made me wonder.

oh, and Special Tour in the arcade might just include the extra tracks of the xbox version? don't know anything really, but for example f355 Challenge 2 in the arcade was just f355 with the extra tracks on the DC version included.

[stefmcd]

Congratualtions on a v.good game but........is there noticeable slowdown in the final version?

[shirubagan]

SOL... Hats off to you for a stunning conversion. I have the game on pre-order – something I have only ever done twice before for Zelda titles – and can't wait to get my mitts on the bugger. It has also made me subscribe to Live... I just had to play it on line.

Cheers,

Kerem

[S0L]

I didn't think they were too dull (Napole0ns questions that is). You should see some of the ones I've had on GameFaq's

Lets see if I can get through the rest then, starting with Jimmy's:

Substantial Unlocks - The question is, what do you class as substantial. If you're looking for additional bonus tracks, then no. And there are no other hidden arcade games either. Given the fact we've added in Outrun 1, and the SCUD/Daytona tracks, and the SP cars, and the extra music, I'm not sure what else it is that you want...

A, AA, AAA - There is no reason to go mad and do all the AAA's except to show off how good you are. Time Trails in mission mode get harder BTW. First time round you get A, then it gets harder for AA, and then harder again for AAA. Cause, thats not to say that it will stay this way, if we do an update, we might put something in as a reward for all AAA's.

Outrun SP - Who knows, who can say. Maybe, maybe not.

Leaks - I think you can pretty much guess that my feelings aren't to find out who it is and buy them a drink. Without getting drawn in to this too deep, we do realise tha at the end of the day, the game will be pirated, thats a fact of life. The fact that it was a review version, and it's hit the web 3 weeks before the game got launched, now that is bloody annoying. You'd expect magazines to have a little more security now wouldn't you? Shocking. End of the day, the sales damage is likely to be small, the pirates probably had little intention to buy the game anyway, but those who like the game, will buy it to play on Live. That and if we do release an update, it's that much harder to crack (witness that it's still not easy to get the additional tracks and cars for PGR2).

Leaked version differences - We did a number of last minute fixes, changes and balancing. Thats as far as I am prepared to comment on the topic.

Anyway, at least you are happy with the game, and we must be doing something right if you are planning to buy it

Next then, Ludachrist...

Scud / Daytona - No, there are just tracks from Scud and Daytona 2. Bear in mind that although we got the original Arcade art from these tracks, it still had to be brought up to date for the new Engine, collision set up and made into linear tracks to fit the game. This took quite some time. AM2 actually suggested we use these, as they felt they would fit into Outrun 2's style. So you won't be sliding Ferraries around rally tracks, or through Mute City or any other number of Sega developed games, both from time and a game style point of view.

Guiding round corners - Nope, not really, I'm not sure what you think it is doing, but it generally goes the way you are pushing. I crash everytime when I tried this, maybe your natural driving instincts are taking over?

Onwards then, to Beertigers question...

Traffic in Multiplayer - This was a technical issue. We had to make sure the game would cope with bad internet connections. We actually have a tool to simulate this, so we didn't have to mess round pulling random wires out of ethernet plugs. We did get the traffic to work reasonably well under good conditions, but under bad conditions we felt it just ruined the game. So it came out. We felt that with 8 players in, there is enough traffic with just the players cars, though agai, this might be something we re-visit in the future if we end up doing more content.

Ferrari - Although there is a Ferrari showroom literally minutes away from the office, for some reason we're still not allowed past the doors. I think our pallid skin and red eyes put them off. Oh well. Besides, I'd only be interested if it was an open top Testarossa (which doesn't exist in real life) and only if I get to put in a CD of Splash Wave, and get *insert fantasy female here* to sit next to me. I doubt it's going to happen

Almost there...

Traffic option in demo - We did the demo three months before we finished the game. So at that stage the Traffic was an option we felt would be in the final. A number of other things have also changed since the demo I would think. Sorry if it misled you, but even we can't see too far into the future!

Xbox on Arcade - Nope, the SP tracks are all original art, created by AM2 (so far as I know) but as a homage to tracks from Outrun and Turbo Outrun. We've not had any dealings with the update Arcade Game.

I think I've covered all these, point out anything I missed

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Sol

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[Robo_1]

you don't race against traffic, you drift beautifully through traffic.

it's the one thing i've loved in Outrun 2, the traffic.

so nice after playing Burnout 3 where every other sentance was

"ah where the fuck did that tram come from"

"who the hell put a pile of cars there, how am i supposed to drift round the corners"

" arrrrrrhhh stupid blue cars"

followed promptly by the use of the power button.

Sold

Really, I've been playing Burnout 3 for the last two weeks, and whilst I'm enjoying the hell out of it, that Burnout branded frustration factor has just hit in spades, and I'm really not having much fun with it anymore. I stand by it as a great game, but the harder levels really punish you way to hard, and so I've decided to see what people are making of Outrun 2 in comparison.

Would I struggle coming from Burnout to Outrun? What I mean by that, is how difficult is it to get into the Outrun play mechanic and controls, over those in Burnout 3? I love playing driving games just for the fun of them, but find Burnout's pace slightly to punishing, but Project Gotham et al a bit to slow. Outun 2 sounds like the perfect middleground, is it?

[Ludachrist]

Pretty much. But its different too.

[Beertiger]

it's soo good coming from Burnout 3 to Outrun 2.

it's like going from a room playing the Spice Girls - Viva Forever on loop with a bunch of crying children and women laughing at you to relaxing on an empty beach on some tropical paradise with the waves gently lapping against the shore.

well until you get further on but i've decided not to spoil it for myself and stopped playing the leak so i actually buy the game and kick ass on Live,

SOL thanks for all the answers, an interesting read.

i only wondered about the traffic because as you say with just the racers there is enough traffic. i've played a network game against 2 people and i could imagine what it's like with 8. so i wasn't sure if it was technical.

on more question, will any of the team be playing it on Live?

how proud are you of the work on the game and are you relieved it's been getting superb write ups from the people who've played it or did you not care what other people think.

also, great work the game rocks hard.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

it's soo good coming from Burnout 3 to Outrun 2.

it's like going from a room playing the Spice Girls - Viva Forever on loop with a bunch of crying children and women laughing at you to relaxing on an empty beach on some tropical paradise with the waves gently lapping against the shore.

For me it felt more like

from to .

[reto]

................

Otherwise, anything else is fair game.

Get cracking then...

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Sol

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How annoyed are you by today's Sunday Times review that gave you 1 star out of 5 (a no-no?)

Choice cuts

"limited gameplay, small number of licensed cars"

"fine line between simple and dumbed down, and Outrun strays into the latter"

"It's all rather shallow"

[tyler]

How annoyed are you by today's Sunday Times review that gave you 1 star out of 5 ( a no-no?

Choice cuts

"limited gameplay, small number of licensed cars"

"fine line between simple and dumbed down, and Outrun strays into the latter"

"It's all rather shallow"

Their depth of knowledge is outstanding. Only yesterday was I thinking "This really needs a BMW or a Suberu in it"

[Beertiger]

How annoyed are you by today's Sunday Times review that gave you 1 star out of 5 (a no-no?)

Choice cuts

"limited gameplay, small number of licensed cars"

"fine line between simple and dumbed down, and Outrun strays into the latter"

"It's all rather shallow"

ah sweet zombie jesus, why would they do that.

[Flockheart]

How annoyed are you by today's Sunday Times review that gave you 1 star out of 5 (a no-no?)

Choice cuts

"limited gameplay, small number of licensed cars"

"fine line between simple and dumbed down, and Outrun strays into the latter"

"It's all rather shallow"

Does this mean the "casuals" aren't going to buy it? Who was the reviewer by the way, it would be interesting to know his gaming credentials, he was probably one of those people that liked Myst...

[Harmunt]

It really does annoy me when ill-informed newspaper staff review videogames.