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Plot/story/script are all different things.

The plot is everything the audience sees up on the screen, I fail to see how the plot can be a totally seperate entity to the script considering the script (by and large) dictates what is put up there. Each plot point is worked out in the script (unless you are Wong Kar Wai where you can do it on the fly). You cannot say a script is terrible yet applaud the plot. Aspects such as dialogue in the script can be criticised but a script is much more than that.

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Sure you can. A script can be changed massively - for instance, taking a character away, re-shuffling a set of sequences, hacking entire scenes out, adding some in... but the plot can stay the same. The plot is the overarching change from one circumstance to another, with the script breaking this down into different tasks that the characters must do. All a script is is a structure, which is always subject to change.

An example is Star Wars Episode III - awesome plot (the tragic fall of a hero), terrible script (Nooooooooo!).

EDIT: Extending the Star Wars example, the script also made the fall of Anakin fit into only a couple of scenes. That's the script's fault, not the plot's.

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EDIT: Extending the Star Wars example, the script also made the fall of Anakin fit into only a couple of scenes. That's the script's fault, not the plot's.

Yeah but we all know that was completely justified as it gave more screen time to some random robot with a bit of a cold which I'm sure we can all agree was a brilliant decision by Lucas.

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Hmm, I would say you are talking about story and not plot in that instance. The story is the over arching narrative (those that are seen and implied) whereas the plot is the way in which it is shown. The story is the tragic fall of a hero not the plot.

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Hmm, I would say you are talking about story and not plot in that instance. The story is the over arching narrative (those that are seen and implied) whereas the plot is the way in which it is shown. The story is the tragic fall of a hero not the plot.

Yeah thats how I would interpret it too. Take a book adaptation. The story comes from the book but the plot is how that story is taken and adapted to be told in 2 hours.

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  • 9 years later...
On 24/06/2007 at 20:46, Rudderless said:

Terminator 3's chase sequence is better than any of the other action sequences in the other two films.

 

Wait... What. 

 

You don't really believe this ! I remember you praising the chase sequence to defend a harshly mocked film, but you've upgraded your love for it a little, in an attempt to further highlight its underrated status. 9 years ago. Or edited it in after everyone had stopped reading the thread. 

 

i'm joking

 

Related...There are various Films Everyone Likes But You Don't lists on letterboxd. The Terminator was named. I didn't think it was possible. Hating The Terminator to me is the same as hating the whole genre of punk music. It's so stripped back and to the point, does exactly what it promises, without fuss. Or like hating robots. Who hates robots? 

 

There's probably a skill to coming up with believable 'this is better than that' opinions. Like, James Richardson of football weekly (his YouTube reviews at Jimbovision are very good, he is a puns expert) saying he thinks Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull is better than Temple of Doom. He's wrong, as explained by the equation 'anything 80s = x10 better than anything 00s'. But he's picked the most unpopular polarizing film to try to get away with it. 

 

I want to...I'm scared...hold me...let's banish soft language like 'I've never got' and replace it with manly declarations. 

 

I've never got Hot Fuzz. No. I hated Hot Fuzz. No. Hot Fuzz is terrible. No. Hot Fuzz is worse than ca..Hot Fuzz is terrible. The relentless quick cuts of the editing in that Guy Ritchie inspired way makes for an unwatchable film, I don't think there's a joke in there, and the midsomer murders storyline..yeah. Also they play homage to Point Break with the foot chase but miss the point of it, which is to have one long take, not cut it to bits. I think everyone was so bowled over by how good it could be in theory that they didn't notice the reality of it being detestable. 

 

Succinct...succinct..

 

The direction of a film is the most important thing, not the script. 

(I'll get better)

Ray Liotta delivers the best performance in Goodfellas.

Sylvester Stallone delivered the best performance in Cop Land and should have won the best supporting oscar for Creed.

Mad Max: Fury Road is the most overrated film of this decade.

(you're ruining it what are u doing abort ABORT)

Aliens lacks real suspense and tension with anything that involves the Marines in danger because the setup is so moronic and their deaths awaited with joy.

(gone it's over game over man)

Arnold Swarzenegger is a genuinely great actor

The Assassination of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford is just nothingness.

(why are u doing this)

Looper is laughably bad

Kill Bill 2 is better than Kill Bill 1

The only sequel Pixar should have made is Toy Story 2.

David Ayer is the worst person involved in making films today.

Toy Story 3 is loved because of the furnace scene but as a film is redundant and shouldn't have been made. It cheaply uses new toys as jokes because there is nothing there, so revels in consumerism whereas the original played with classic toys every generation loves in a way that was exciting rather than tiring. It lacks movement because everything occurs in one place, it lacks the suspense and joy of seeing the toys among the large scary world of the humans. It is straight to DVD level given a sheen. 

(channel my inner armond white)

The City Of Life And Death is the greatest war film ever made and the best film of the 21st century. 

The Guest is still terrible and Dan Stevens still can't act. 

Ronin has the best car chase scene ever filmed.

The Dark Knight Rises is excruciatingly dull and should be regarded as the complete disaster it is.

The Social Network doesn't represent anything of substance, it is pure Fincher style. Exact same script and actors, but a poor director at the helm, and poor imitation of Trent Reznor's music, no one would care. 

Boyhood is average if not terrible. It is as much Girlhood, the lead boy has no personality and it equates life with all the trite big moments everyone has, rather than honing in on what makes this individual unique. It's so vacuous. The school scenes are Byker Grove level of acting and dialogue, it veers into cliche no other film could get away with, with the alcoholic abusive step dad. Life is like a post card, or a tourist holiday, we just tick off all these things we must do but with zero feeling. I got my mum to watch it, thinking she might relate to the mother who laments her kids growing up and moving on, but she spent the whole film waiting for something to happen. And she watches Coronation Street religiously. And fuck it's perfect idyllic ending that no one has. 

Iron Man is shit. Robert Downey Jr is obnoxious. The action, the world, the villain, his house, his love interest, the story, are all shit. The one good thing in 6 hours was the sky rescue.

The last two Captain Americas are shit. Tortuous attempts at real world parallels with terrorism, the aircraft carriers in the sky making for never ending flying and explosions and punching, everything militirized devoid of romance.

Tim Burton's Batman films are masterpieces, and will endure as the best superhero films when people look back in 60 years when we've had another 436 of them. 

Charlie Kaufman's films are incessantly neurotic. 

The Len Wiseman Total Recall isn't that bad, when you convince yourself that it has some okay sci fi action and it's not the 80s/early 90s anymore and there is source material there, it's not like...

The new RoboCop commits all the sins

Audition is the greatest horror film ever. 

Spider-Man shouldn't be allowed any action scenes on big ferries.

Zero Dark Thirty and Captain Phillips are immoral and shouldn't exist. 

Jackie Chan is the greatest person involved in film who ever lived.

Spike Lee should be taken to court over Oldboy.

The Big Lebowski isn't funny and it's all one big conspiracy concocted by Empire readers.

Triangle is the best psychological sci-fi of the 21st century.

Johnny Depp has wasted his film career. 

The 'your cunt kids' bit in In Bruges is the funniest piece of dialogue ever written. 

The Good The Bad The Weird's epic desert action scene is the most accomplished action scene of the 21st century. 

Enter The Dragon is all posturing. I watched it the cinema last year and it didn't work. 

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The only good things Spike Lee has ever done are Do the Right Thing, When the Levees Broke and, to a much lesser extent, Malcolm X. Everything* else is horrible.

 

*Obviously I haven't seen everything (he's got like 50-odd credits) but, you know, rhetoric and that.

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7 hours ago, d ebolenk said:

Charlie Kaufman's films are incessantly neurotic. 

 

 

Well yes - particularly in Adaptation and Synechdoche, New York, isn't that pretty much the point? The prospect of Kaufman's hang-ups being laid bare on screen, in exaggerated form?

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11 hours ago, d ebolenk said:

 

I've never got Hot Fuzz. No. I hated Hot Fuzz. No. Hot Fuzz is terrible. No. Hot Fuzz is worse than ca..Hot Fuzz is terrible. The relentless quick cuts of the editing in that Guy Ritchie inspired way makes for an unwatchable film, I don't think there's a joke in there, and the midsomer murders storyline..yeah. Also they play homage to Point Break with the foot chase but miss the point of it, which is to have one long take, not cut it to bits. I think everyone was so bowled over by how good it could be in theory that they didn't notice the reality of it being detestable. 

 

Pub?

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Liam Neeson is one of the most boring and one dimensional actors money can buy. He has the best agent, along with Tommy Lee Jones 

 

Paul Walker - didn't get the "outpouring" of grief. We didn't lose De Niro or Pacino you know

 

Armageddon is the worst film ever made I have paid money to see. 2nd place is Independence Day

 

Dumb and Dumber is not funny, at all. Its just shit

 

The Matrix 2's action sequences from the stair fight to the highway chase is the best action sequence ever put on film. The editing is fucking incredible. 

 

That's enough to be getting on with! :)

 

 

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12 hours ago, Nick R said:

Well yes - particularly in Adaptation and Synechdoche, New York, isn't that pretty much the point? The prospect of Kaufman's hang-ups being laid bare on screen, in exaggerated form?

 

Yeahhh I know, I thought that might be picked up. 

 

Reading this thread is great. Talking about who'd win in a fight between Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee. Vintage forum stuff. You don't get that anymore. 

 

Joseph Gordon Levitt doesn't deserve the career he's had. 

Funny People is great and Adam Sandler is brilliant in it. 

Daniel Craig is a terrible leading actor, and should only do supporting, weirder roles. 

About A Boy is great.

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8 hours ago, Nick R said:

 

 

Well yes - particularly in Adaptation and Synechdoche, New York, isn't that pretty much the point? The prospect of Kaufman's hang-ups being laid bare on screen, in exaggerated form?

It's just unfortunate that Synecdoche is also an absolutely awful film. 

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On 18/12/2016 at 04:43, d ebolenk said:

I've never got Hot Fuzz. No. I hated Hot Fuzz. No. Hot Fuzz is terrible. No. Hot Fuzz is worse than ca..Hot Fuzz is terrible. The relentless quick cuts of the editing in that Guy Ritchie inspired way makes for an unwatchable film, I don't think there's a joke in there, and the midsomer murders storyline..yeah. Also they play homage to Point Break with the foot chase but miss the point of it, which is to have one long take, not cut it to bits. I think everyone was so bowled over by how good it could be in theory that they didn't notice the reality of it being detestable. 

 

I didn't enjoy it so much first time around in the cinema. Later on DVD I found it much better. The trouble is we were promised their take on action films when, as you say, it's more of a send-up of Midsomer Murders bar a couple of shoot outs. The great, modern British action film is still waiting to be made.

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13 minutes ago, Death's Head said:

I didn't enjoy it so much first time around in the cinema. Later on DVD I found it much better. The trouble is we were promised their take on action films when, as you say, it's more of a send-up of Midsomer Murders bar a couple of shoot outs. The great, modern British action film is still waiting to be made.

 

I think Shaun Of The Dead is overated as well...though well directed, acted, just not that funny, and -putting aside the overall film- I preferred Zombieland's funny take on the zombie guide to surviving, as well as covering vast distances as opposed to reaching as far as the local pub. 

 

Out of the 3 Wright/Pegg films I preferred The World's End the most, I found the pub scenes before anything happened funny, and Pegg's character funny. Wouldn't say it's better overall, though. 

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On ‎28‎/‎06‎/‎2007 at 12:23, sandman said:

A New Hope is by far the weakest of the first 3 Star Wars films.

It has a terrible script, poor acting, dire SFX and only the plot keeps it bearable.

I must say that my opinion on this has changed somewhat in the last 9 years - much more a fan of it now than I was then

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  • 5 years later...

- Michael Bay is one of the best directors working in Hollywood today 

- Prometheus is the second best film in the Alien franchise, falling just behind the original

- The Godfather II is overrated. Wonderful production values, some good individual scenes and great acting, but there is no cohesion between the two timelines and the narrative is pretty meandering and aimless 

 

Ok I‘ll stop now, before I get permabanned. 

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