Disgaea Hour of Darkness

[Sidewaysbob]

it's pretty niche. But saying that, it's got some nice touches.

eruuuummmmm IF you like RPG's and i'm talking the Final Fantasy mould. the sort that are stat heavy, then yes it's very good. IF you like to run round and just kill stuff because it gets in the way and is cannon fodder, then no, don't buy this game.

It's more about finding out why things happen, and building your hard core team of charaters than actually finishing the game. You can finish the game without really getting into the game and how it works. But if you go looking at the extra bits then you can find loads of interesting bits and bobs.

It's almost "old school" in it's sudo3Dness. If you want flashy graphics and "Max frag count dude" then don't bother, if you want a fun adventure game that wants you to die a lot but explore it's differnt elements then definatly this is the game for you.

If you've played FF tactics then you HAVE to buy this game.

[Sidewaysbob]

Oh and 9 was a bit too much. It's a 9 within the isometric adventure game field, but proabably a 7 or 8 for actual game play.

the controls are realy irratating, the screen is too easliy cluttered and the explanations are pretty short.

But you get used to it and it's a VERY japanese game to play. once you understand that, well then it's a 8 or a 9, definatly a 9.5 in four beers time. So to speak

[Juria]

If you've played FF tactics then you HAVE to buy this game.

Yes, as this game is second only to the magnificent Vandal hearts!

[JPickford (retired mod)]

I think it's half a game. The combat system is fantastic as is the levelling etc. But the game has no content. The levels are virtually featureless and seem to have little affect on the battles.

Instead of making properly interesting and interactive levels they've relied on the confusing (and cheap IMO) Geo Mod system. Calling it Geo Mod is a real cheek as it doesn't change the landscape at all just the status of squares (indicated by colours - which is confusing and ugly as it mixes up with the highlights used to show movement\attack ranges).

It's a shame but it seems to me they have the engine here - well most of it - but they haven't actually made the game.

There IS loads to do and it can be very compelling but the game doesn't have that suspension of disbelief required for any sort of RPG. The story is not involving (nor is it making much sense so far) and is largely unrelated to the gameplay.

I'll give it a few more hours but I think I'll get my refund on Friday.

[Guest nomenclature]

Well, I don't think it's actually called Geo Mod. It's just Geo Panels. They're only there to add a kind of puzzle element as far as I can tell. You can turn the colours off with Select too.

Basically I think Disgaea is a fairly focused SRPG concentrating on a wide variety of character customisation options, fiddling with the mechanics of the game and good old straight levelling rather than story. After all the actual story ending is one out of many.

I don't think it's worth a 9, maybe an 8. Scores are great!

[jayboy]

Is it better/more fun to play than Advanced Wars?

[Laine]

You can't really compare them. They are both good, in different ways.

[Ste Pickford]

Is it better/more fun to play than Advanced Wars?

No!

[sandman]

Got mine on the way to work this morning.

Games Central also gave it 9/10

Looking forward to playing, although some of the comments here seem a bit negative...

[JPickford (retired mod)]

Looking forward to playing, although some of the comments here seem a bit negative...

If I'm critical it's because I had very hight hopes for it. I was lead to believe it was Vandal Hearts but better.

[vincenzo]

Well this game has character and it entertained me and made me laugh more then any other stinking FPS has

[Moose]

Got to agree with JP here. It is good, and I'm enjoying it to a point, but it's nowhere near as good as I was led to believe from some of the NTSC owner comments. It's not in the same class as Vandal Hearts or FFT (PS), that's for sure.

[Juria]

Yes, but how many times does one of those come along? (ans: once, 7 years ago) so it's fantastic to have a game that comes even close.

[mrsambarlow]

I think it's half a game.  The combat system is fantastic as is the levelling etc.  But the game has no content.  The levels are virtually featureless and seem to have little affect on the battles. 

Instead of making properly interesting and interactive levels they've relied on the confusing (and cheap IMO) Geo Mod system.  Calling it Geo Mod is a real cheek as it doesn't change the landscape at all just the status of squares (indicated by colours - which is confusing and ugly as it mixes up with the highlights used to show movement\attack ranges).

It's a shame but it seems to me they have the engine here - well most of it - but they haven't actually made the game.

There IS loads to do and it can be very compelling but the game doesn't have that suspension of disbelief required for any sort of RPG.  The story is not involving (nor is it making much sense so far) and is largely unrelated to the gameplay.

I'll give it a few more hours but I  think I'll get my refund on Friday.

I think a lot of your disappointment is down to expectations that were mis-placed.

A lot of people love Disgaea *because* it doesn't have the (typical) plot-heavy storyline about politics and war, because it doesn't take place in a bunch of pretty castles, beaches, forests and fields. I'm guessing you'd have been happier if it did.

I love Tactics Ogre, Battle Ogre and FFT. I loved the storylines in those games and the almost cinematic situations that arise from the interplay of the strategy and characters within those scenarios. But, for me, Disgaea is quite different. It's like a pig rolling around in mud, playing Disgaea. So many options, and features and numbers... you just play around with the game, pushing it in whatever direction takes your fancy. It's almost a sandbox SRPG.

[Guest nomenclature]

But, for me, Disgaea is quite different. It's like a pig rolling around in mud, playing Disgaea. So many options, and features and numbers... you just play around with the game, pushing it in whatever direction takes your fancy. It's almost a sandbox SRPG.

I'm in the same boat. I definitely understand everyone's criticism and disappointment, but I think Disgaea tries to be something different.

I spent last night not playing FFXI and levelling a few of my characters up in to the 80s so I could unlock the Cave of Ordeals. Not really an amazing cinematic experience, but satisfying nonetheless.

[jayboy]

Just out of interest...do people think Disgaea is a rare title over here, and will be worth a few bob in the future?

[JPickford (retired mod)]

I think a lot of your disappointment is down to expectations that were mis-placed.

Perhaps, but not all of it.

I think the fact that the level designs have so little impact on the gameplay is a genuine weakness. Also there IS a story but it seems barely related to the gameplay - that again, I think is a weakness and not a deliberate design feature.

Some of the other stuff - the sandbox thing I agree with. This is why I think Disgea is half a game - half of a brilliant game I mean. With more variety in the level designs and a story which integrated better with the gameplay it would gain a great deal and lose none of its virtues.

Vandal Hearts is a superior game built from an inferior engine\battle system (or at least a less sophisticated system). But I think Vandal Hearts was greater than the sum of its parts - Disgea is the opposite.

I am being hard on the game because it IS good. It's worthy of the effort and worthy of scrutiny.

[JPickford (retired mod)]

Just to add a bit more, I don't think the storyline in Vandal Hearts was especially great (much of it ripped from Star Wars If I remember rightly). It's more that the gameplay and the storyline worked together to make each other stronger. Levels involved rescuing party members in a limited number of moves or freeing a town of monsters. In Disgea (so far) it's just kill all monsters over and over again - you can safely skip the storyline and lose nothing of consequence.

In any RPG or Adventure game you are effectively working your way through a database. The trick is to make the player BELIEVE in the story - that's where the magic comes from. And it's not THAT hard because the player wouldn't have bought the game if they didn't want to go on that adventure.

Whenever the underlying database becomes apparent to the player then the game has failed. Ultimately I think Disgea suffers from this.

OT: Any idea why these games don't have 2 player modes? It seems such an obvious oversight.

[waddie]

Just out of interest...do people think Disgaea is a rare title over here, and will be worth a few bob in the future?

I doubt it, not in the way niche titles like this have become rare and sought-after in the past. Once, the only coverage would have been a quarter page review in the back of a couple of magazines, quite possibly after the release. Now, there's the internet with a couple of months of raving about it from US gamers, then it's heavily discussed on UK forums. It's a lot harder for obscure games to stay obscure if they're any good now.

[Juria]

Just to add a bit more, I don't think the storyline in Vandal Hearts was especially great (much of it ripped from Star Wars If I remember rightly). It's more that the gameplay and the storyline worked together to make each other stronger. Levels involved rescuing party members in a limited number of moves or freeing a town of monsters. In Disgea (so far) it's just kill all monsters over and over again - you can safely skip the storyline and lose nothing of consequence.

In any RPG or Adventure game you are effectively working your way through a database. The trick is to make the player BELIEVE in the story - that's where the magic comes from. And it's not THAT hard because the player wouldn't have bought the game if they didn't want to go on that adventure.

Whenever the underlying database becomes apparent to the player then the game has failed. Ultimately I think Disgea suffers from this.

OT: Any idea why these games don't have 2 player modes? It seems such an obvious oversight.

In La Pucelle the story is connected to what you're doing and there's even pressure plates and levels where you have to protect and avoid damaging things. but nowhere near as good on those terms as Vandal Hearts though.

Let's make a game, you code it and i'll draw it, it'll even ahve a 2 player mode.

[Guest nomenclature]

n/m

[JPickford (retired mod)]

Let's make a game, you code it and i'll draw it, it'll even ahve a 2 player mode.

I'm already making one.

[Juria]

I'm already making one.

*wind whistles, rain starts pouring, Juria left outside in the dark....*

[JPickford (retired mod)]

*wind whistles, rain starts pouring, Juria left outside in the dark....*

Sorry I didn't mean it to sound like that.

[Jolly]

Played for quite a bit this afternoon and I'm now starting to get the knack of it.

Theres bags of character in there. Not sure if I entirely understand whats going on, but its making me laugh anyway.

[mrsambarlow]

Just to add a bit more,  I don't think the storyline in Vandal Hearts was especially great (much of it ripped from Star Wars If I remember rightly).  It's more that the gameplay and the storyline worked together to make each other stronger.  Levels involved rescuing party members in a limited number of moves or freeing a town of monsters.  In Disgea (so far)  it's just kill all monsters over and over again - you can safely skip the storyline and lose nothing of consequence.

In any RPG or Adventure game you are effectively working your way through a database.  The trick is to make the player BELIEVE in the story - that's where the magic comes from.  And it's not THAT hard because the player wouldn't have bought the game if they didn't want to go on that adventure.

Whenever the underlying database becomes apparent to the player then the game has failed.  Ultimately I think Disgea suffers from this. 

OT: Any idea why these games don't have 2 player modes?  It seems such an obvious oversight.

Yeah I agree, it *would* make Disgaea better if you added in a cohesive story and levels that tied into this. But it would be different; add a story to chess and you'd piss some people off.

Personally, that's the killer hook in this genre: the integration of the story and the strategy. You have an incredible detailed action-set to use, and it's one that's so intrinsically cinematic; e.g. in Tactics Ogre: getting a wizard to levitate a ninja up a castle wall so he can then jump behind the problem archer and kill him with one super cool ninja double-sword slash. This kind of orchestration by the player (and seemingly out of nowhere, the gameplay is so open) is fucking cool.

No other genre allows as much choice and such a variety of paths to go down; the limitations of a tile-based, turn-based game allow such complexity. It's all about choice; and choice in the context of a cool "situation" tied into a cool story, is fabulous.

[JPickford (retired mod)]

Yeah I agree, it *would* make Disgaea better if you added in a cohesive story and levels that tied into this. But it would be different; add a story to chess and you'd piss some people off.

I think we are all on the same side in this thread.

It comes down to whether you think Disgea is like it is on purpose or it's a noble failure. I'm thinking the latter.

I've had many hours of entertainmen with it mind. The reason I'm going to return it (beyond being on a tight budget) is that I feel the story flaws rob me of any compulsion to go any further. Levelling up every character (and object!) to 999 doesn't do it for me.

[ianinthefuture]

Just to add a bit more, I don't think the storyline in Vandal Hearts was especially great (much of it ripped from Star Wars If I remember rightly). It's more that the gameplay and the storyline worked together to make each other stronger. Levels involved rescuing party members in a limited number of moves or freeing a town of monsters. In Disgea (so far) it's just kill all monsters over and over again - you can safely skip the storyline and lose nothing of consequence.

I agree with that. Vandal Hearts 2 has the most cliched and downright wank story ever, and my interest in it suffered because of it. Disgaea doesn't suffer - to me at least - because the story isn't that bad, it just isn't really a large factor in things.

[mrsambarlow]

I think we are all on the same side in this thread.

If only we could get one of the reviewers that typically starts their srpg reviews with the disclaimer "Of course, like all strategy games, game X has major flaws: it's slow, boring and you have to think. If you're fine with such crapness, perhaps you'll like game X," to join in then we'd have someone to disagree with? If we can't rustle one up, is the Games Animal free?

btw, have you seen the shots of Phantom Brave? Looks like more of the same, but they've ripped unit movement from Pillage and there's some weirdness to do with possessing inanimate objects?

[JPickford (retired mod)]

btw, have you seen the shots of Phantom Brave? Looks like more of the same, but they've ripped unit movement from Pillage and there's some weirdness to do with possessing inanimate objects?

No. Do you have a link?

Ripped from Pillage eh? At least they have taste.