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Singstar.


PopeSmokesDope
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Sounding exactly like the original artist doesn't work either - an easy example is the very ending of "Complicated". Listen to what Avril sings and look at the graph. On her second "no", she wobbles the pitch a little - however it's represented by a straight line.

There's also the thing that you need to sustain the notes for longer than the original artist to get the full points. The chorus of Complicated is a good example ("and you taaaaaaaake what you geeeeeeeeet and you tuuuurn iiiit iiin toooo")

Singstar 2 needs:

  • The ability to sing EITHER part when a 2-part harmony line comes up
  • 2-part harmony in duets
  • Pitch bars that get fatter and thinner depending on whether the singer "slides" up to the note, or tails off at the end
  • Pitch bars of the correct length
  • Some way of understanding if you're deliberately harmonising. Not as hard to code as it sounds.

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Some way of understanding if you're deliberately harmonising. Not as hard to code as it sounds.

Ooh, get you and your fancy "List" BBCode.

How would you do this, then? As Singstar shows, in laboratory conditions I can barely hold a tune. Harmonies defeat me completely. When my wife harmonises I can understand it sounds nice, but I have no idea what she's doing. What is it, exactly? What relationship does a harmony have to the original tune?

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Ooh, get you and your fancy "List" BBCode.

How would you do this, then? As Singstar shows, in laboratory conditions I can barely hold a tune. Harmonies defeat me completely. When my wife harmonises I can understand it sounds nice, but I have no idea what she's doing. What is it, exactly? What relationship does a harmony have to the original tune?

Isn't it exactly an octave (or more than one) higher or lower than the original note.

Bear in mind I have no idea what I'm talking about.

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Isn't it exactly an octave (or more than one) higher or lower than the original note.

Bear in mind I have no idea what I'm talking about.

No - harmony is generally when you sing something like a third.

It'd be easy to demonstrate, if I had a piano to hand - and you could hear it.

Octaves are a very particular form of "harmony" - and Singstar is perfectly happy letting you sing the octave.

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What's a third?

4 semitones up from the root note.

So...

C (D flat, D, E flat) E

or

G (A flat, A, B flat) B

But that's just *one* form of simple harmony. In practice you'd vary it a bit to make something that sounded nice.

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And how do octaves relate to frequency? Is that where the idea of an octave comes from? Is it some simple multiplier of the lower octave's frequency?

Yes - in the pythagorian scale.

Not quite - in the standard western scale.

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I don't understand any of this. Keep it the same! :D

I feel like the Aspberger's kid in the "Curious Dog" book, trying to understand "feelings" and people using only the poweres of logic. Or an alien woman in Star Trek asking Kirk to "explain this thing called 'kissing'".

C'mon. tell me some more about this "music" stuff.

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I feel like the Aspberger's kid in the "Curious Dog" book, trying to understand "feelings" and people using only the poweres of logic. Or an alien woman in Star Trek asking Kirk to "explain this thing called 'kissing'".

C'mon. tell me some more about this "music" stuff.

I know what you mean.

I really like the idea of this game but I'm tone deaf.

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I know what you mean.

I really like the idea of this game but I'm tone deaf.

If you are completely tone deaf, it's no good. If you can barely hold a tune, but it sounds dreadful, like me, it's a lot of fun (as long as you don't make small children or animals listen to you). And you get better: having the visual representation when you're flat is really helpful.

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I know what you mean.

I really like the idea of this game but I'm tone deaf.

I thought the same thing too until I played and found that I can actually hear and hold a note... just about and I've certainly improved over time... so for you yesterday tone def tommorrow singstar!

Cheers

Quexex

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If you are completely tone deaf, it's no good. If you can barely hold a tune, but it sounds dreadful, like me, it's a lot of fun (as long as you don't make small children or animals listen to you). And you get better: having the visual representation when you're flat is really helpful.

I don't know what I am. I like (and appreciate) music but I can't sing. I can't tell if two notes close to each other - which is the highest or lowest.

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I don't know what I am. I like (and appreciate) music but I can't sing. I can't tell if two notes close to each other - which is the highest or lowest.

Like all things really it's a matter of practice!

Cheers

Quexex

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You go up an octave by doubling the frequency. That's quite simple.

A lot of pop tunes that contain two-part harmony do it with simple "parallel thirds" - i.e. each note in the second part is three notes above the first part. When I say "notes", I mean "notes in the scale that the song is in". And when you count the three, you include the first note. (So if notes were numbers, a third above 1 would be 3).

So if you have a song in C major (lets keep it simple) your scale is:

CDEFGABC

So if you had a tune that went:

F F E E F E F G G E

your parallel thirds harmony would be

A A G G A G A B B G

[edit: I've just sung this in my head and it sounds better if the two B's are C's. So it's jumping to a fourth there.]

Simple parallel thirds or fourths are usually OK for short lines in easy pop songs.

Another way to do nice harmonies is simply to pick another note out of the current chord. Nine times out of ten the melody of the vocals is based around one or two notes out of the current chord. By simply using different notes out of that chord you can harmonise.

There aren't really any rules - but Singstar could easily detect both of the above scenarios. You could even get extra points!

edit: All this is from observation and experimentation rather than training, so I could be explaining it totally wrongly, or be missing out pieces of the puzzle

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I don't know what I am. I like (and appreciate) music but I can't sing. I can't tell if two notes close to each other - which is the highest or lowest.

So far I've played with about 20 people.

Only one was utterly incapable of getting close to the correct note after multiple attempts.

telling which note is higher or lower when they're close is a much harder skill.

You'll be fine.

Buy it.

Now :D

[ be a sheep just like cacky says we are ]

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Thanks for that. It appears the underlying theme is "you sing what sounds right". Although I understand some of the explanation about why particular choices of notes might sound right, I don't think I'll be doing any harmonising myself in the near future. I am a colour blind man in a world full of flowers.

I do get irritated that Singstar complains when you "warble" on notes where the singer does the same. I can do that.

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Thing is, it'd have to start checking whether you were consistently singing in harmony.

And not just wavering up and down the scale.

I'd be worried about the additional algorithm complexity and processing required.

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Just edited my above post.

And Laine, don't worry - none of this would stop the game from working in the way it does now - it just might help to consolidate "performance" with "score" a little more.

Oh, okay. Good.

I had an even numbered team battle for the first time at the weekend, I love the game where you take it in turns too sing bits of the song.

Although I kept ending up with the chorus on Just A Little and I can't do it at all.

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Thing is, it'd have to start checking whether you were consistently singing in harmony.

And not just wavering up and down the scale.

I'd be worried about the additional algorithm complexity and processing required.

Yep. I don't think it's actually doable... just a pipedream I guess.

Laine, it sounds great multiplayer. I've still only ever played it on my own!

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Yep. I don't think it's actually doable... just a pipedream I guess.

Laine, it sounds great multiplayer. I've still only ever played it on my own!

Oh no! You *need* to play it multi, won't your girlfriend join in?

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I had an even numbered team battle for the first time at the weekend, I love the game where you take it in turns too sing bits of the song.

Although I kept ending up with the chorus on Just A Little and I can't do it at all.

...and dont forget your tremendous rendition of Careless Whispers that lasted a grand total of 38 seconds (30 of which were for the intro)

Kicked.....your....arse!!!! ^_^

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...and dont forget your tremendous rendition of Careless Whispers that lasted a grand total of 38 seconds (30 of which were for the intro)

Kicked.....your....arse!!!! ^_^

At least I don't sound like a gayer!

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