E136

[MK-1601]

Harlen clearly hasn't played enough Quake deathmatch.

[bomber]

until I found the edge forum, I honestly never imagined that people took it's scores so seriously.

What did Games TM give Manhunt?

[The Liberal Elite]

What did Games TM give Manhunt?

That wasn't a review.

[the_debaser]

Halo's the only game to have ever given me motion sickness.

The grass is still pretty, though.

Er, yeah, good issue of Edge.

Zelda, eh?

[Jonathan_Kerr]

Ban Request: The topic of whether Halo was worth a 10 or not.

[whohe]

Halo's the only game to have ever given me motion sickness.

Have you tried using the binoculars whilst in a boat in Far Cry?

[Uncle Nasty]

What did Games TM give Manhunt?

The kind of review only their mothers would love. Idiots.

[Ebisumaru]

I choose to debate, occasionally, but get bored after I feel like it's all been said and done. What some fail to realise is it's still perfectly fine to disagree after a debate. I've never been too hung up with anyone disagreeing with my pov.

I'll drink to that Mr Quinn, and I must apologise for coming across as something of a prick, but then again, I am quite a prick.

[Felchjockey]

Re the whole Halo on Legendary thing, from first experience I have to cry overrated, with the caveat that I am very possibly a bit shit. I finished and loved the game on normal, warts and all, and decided to see what Silent Cartographer was like on Legendary. Again, its probable that my shitness was key, but virtually all the marines were butchered on the first line of Cov defense, leaving me alone to try and take out the two Elites hiding behind the rocks. I don't know about some, but to my mind, increased AI is not almost robotically perfect aim with overpowered weapons, or the ability to take a full needler clip without dying. Maybe its just that level, more likely I'm totally shit, but I loved the game on normal, whereas I can see playing all of it on Legendary as a hell of a chore. And I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem, so I think the whole 'Halo is only Halo on Legendary!' thing is bollocks. Its brilliant despite its flaws on every difficulty level. Also, the repeating rooms are not a good thing in any sense. The game is good enough to overcome it, but they do not in any way improve the experience in the way some in this thread would have you believe.

[Uncle Nasty]

You'll probably get into Legendary more when your skills improve. I can finish Heroic without getting killed on most of the levels now so Legendary is the only setting that's still a challenge.

The Silent Cartographer is one of the easiest levels on Legendary too. Try Truth and Recon, the bit where you first get to the ship. It's MOIDER.

[Rogózjin]

I remember that I got the motion sickness thing after like 5 secs of Turok 64

[PeteJ]

Halo is better on Heroic than Legendary.

[Jolly]

The kind of review only their mothers would love. Idiots.

So ridiculous, it's actually put me off buying the magazine.

Alright, fair enough, opinions and all that, but I can't help but feel that the score was based on a opinion of violence in general rather than, y'know, the game.

[No Control]

I doubt that. They were always raving about other violent games like GTA Vice City and Hitman 2.

[Cacophanus]

The vidmaster oath runs thus:

Unlike Halo on Legendary, this was a self-imposed limitation on the player. So whilst Legendary is hard, it is generic because the skills required aren't specific to Halo nor does the game remove any of Master Chief's potency. The vidmaster oath asked the player to progress through the game with just their fists on a very hard difficulty setting. It made you a better gamer, Legendary doesn't.

Legendary as an experience? It's just a difficulty setting, and whilst the vidmaster oath was fun it was by no means a defining characteristic of what made Marathon great. The same can be equally said for Halo. Many people big up Legendary so as to 1) try and justify all the crazy PR nonsense and 2) make them look skilled. All this is pretty transparent. I just used the vidmaster oath as an example for this.

As for Bungie not developing Infinity, that's not entirely true. A lot of the team from the previous games worked on Inifity and the story, whilst very complex, is inspired metaphysical genius. Having multiple interweaving alternate universe plotlines from the previous game all working in wondrous psyche splitting concord simply pisses all over the dumb Aliens crapfest that is Halo's narrative.

[Harlen Quinn]

Harlen clearly hasn't played enough Quake deathmatch.

Why? Please explain. Bear in mind that I love Halo multi player because it has finely tuned weapons, grenades available at all times without changing weapons, (2 types of very distinctly different greanades at that). A limit to 2 weapons at a time to increase the combat strategy. A melee attack available at all times, with the damage inflicted depending on which weapon you attack with, where you strike your opponent, whether you're jumping etc. and the ability at which you can repeat the move dependent upon which weapon you attacked with. A rechargeable shield and an overshield, and a camouflage device. I did mention the vehicles and the different ways in which you can crew them, didn't I?

If that's Quake deathmatch then yes, I haven't played it enough.

I hate hi-jacking threads, I explained before why I did, I couldn't let it go without reply. No one has really countered how these other games have given me all these things, together so sublimely in one package, before Halo.

I remain unconvinced that other games have done this first. As I explained to Ebi, when I feel I've said all on a subject, which I already had to be honest I prefer to let it go, yes, with differing opinions intact. I really do have my OCD under control, honest.

honest honest honest honest

[Jolly]

I doubt that. They were always raving about other violent games like GTA Vice City and Hitman 2.

Good point.

[Harlen Quinn]

I'll drink to that Mr Quinn, and I must apologise for coming across as something of a prick, but then again, I am quite a prick.

I wouldn't have called you that on a net forum, not for such a harmless opinion anyway. Drink you say?, I'll drink to anything.

[Ktw]

The vidmaster oath runs thus:

Ah, that's it. However, if you look at some of the replays, you'll notice that the game turns more into a test of memory than an actual test of skill. The very fact that many of the players are keyboard only players is a testament to this. If only for the fact that there is no way in hell that a keyboard player will beat a skilled mouse and keyboard player.

So whilst Legendary is hard, it is generic because the skills required aren't specific to Halo nor does the game remove any of Master Chief's potency.

Isn't all weapon skills specific to Halo, as those weapons doesn't work exactly the same way in any other game? Also, because of adjustments in shield strength etc, you will notice that there's a shift of power balance between weapons on Legendary. The needler, all of a sudden, becomes not only a useful weapon, but quite necessary for survival.

Legendary as an experience? It's just a difficulty setting, and whilst the vidmaster oath was fun it was by no means a defining characteristic of what made Marathon great. The same can be equally said for Halo.

While I agree with this, I would suggest that it was only on Legendary that you fully realised just how clever the AI was at times. On the other difficulty levels, it's simply too easy to just mow down an elite with sheer firepower. Try going up against one on Legendary. All of a sudden your shields are equal. So who will win? The one who puts the environment to best use.

Having multiple interweaving alternate universe plotlines from the previous game all working in wondrous psyche splitting concord simply pisses all over the dumb Aliens crapfest that is Halo's narrative.

Possibly. The level design, however, is quite boring. And ultimately, as great as the Marathon storyline was (and especially the first two games, before the whole rogue AI thing went out of hand (IMHO)), it was basically a case of reading up on a story on computer terminals between fairly generic levels with fairly generic objectives (go there, push switch). Halo does a far better job at actually integrating the story with the game experience.

That said, they're both fucking excellent games that pisses on 98% of all other titles out there from a great height.

[Sprite Machine]

How can Halo be regarded that highly?

Because it's that good?

Admittedly the multiplayer is "fun", but you can't ignore the downright tedium that the singleplayer campaign literally forces upon the player.

One could ignore it. One could also think it isn't even tedious.

Moreover, one could be of the opinion that slightly repetitive levels are not detrimental to the core of the game - the combat. In fact one could even argue that the levels are perfectly designed to accomodate the combat and range of situations that play themselves out.

If one wanted to, like.

Naturally, anyone who starts talking smack about the "Elite's AI on Legendary difficulty" will be brutally castrated so as to disallow the propagation of their obvious idiocy into our already crappy gene pool.

You mean "anyone who tries debating the issue with an alternative viewpoint will be instantly dismissed as an idiot because that's just easier"?

Now, the real issue here is that everyone has already swallowed the sticky globule of meme based PR nonsense that Microsoft spewed upon this pure and noble planet.

I haven't, and didn't.

I just bought the game, played it alone, played it in co-op, played it in multiplayer, and decided that it was excellent!

Go me!

You do make me laugh sometimes. I don't know why you can't accept people have differences of opinion.

[D-Side]

Halo would have been better if it had big robots in it. And more complex controls. Oh yes.

[The Liberal Elite]

Halo would have been better if it had big robots in it. And more complex controls. Oh yes.

[Graham S]

Doesn't Master Chief count as a big robot then? Or is it best not to ask?

[kerraig UK]

I actually agree with cacky.

Everything he says about halo is true. It was hyped so much by MS that there was no way it was going to get a bad review. Amazing how edge and everyone else didnt give a shit about it when it was on the MAC, i think edge called it mediocre.

True is, 5 years on, GE is still king. Better level deisgn, better frame rate (lol) better gameplay and 100% genius. The perfect game. Go play it latecomers.

Couldn't disagree more.

I think Edge were prophets with this one. The game is getting on for being three years old and yet I still have 5-6 hour multiplayer sessions with it twice a week. Can't say that of any other game ever. Not even mario kart, street fighter 2 or my beloved goldeneye.

[kerraig UK]

That isn't quite true, the skills you acquire are generic to all FPS games. Meaning you could be an FPS veteran and suffer almost no learning curve with Halo. Moreover, just relying on said skills to progress on Legendary is, if anything, proof of underpar level design. Playing Halo on Legendary is, and always has been, massively overrated. It's not a "cerebral experience".

That is so completely untrue. The first thing I did in Halo as a FPS veteran was ditch the pistol. As by FPS lore the weapon you start with is always the weakest.

Halo was a revolution

[kerraig UK]

Re the whole Halo on Legendary thing, from first experience I have to cry overrated, with the caveat that I am very possibly a bit shit. I finished and loved the game on normal, warts and all, and decided to see what Silent Cartographer was like on Legendary. Again, its probable that my shitness was key, but virtually all the marines were butchered on the first line of Cov defense, leaving me alone to try and take out the two Elites hiding behind the rocks. I don't know about some, but to my mind, increased AI is not almost robotically perfect aim with overpowered weapons, or the ability to take a full needler clip without dying. Maybe its just that level, more likely I'm totally shit, but I loved the game on normal, whereas I can see playing all of it on Legendary as a hell of a chore. And I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem, so I think the whole 'Halo is only Halo on Legendary!' thing is bollocks. Its brilliant despite its flaws on every difficulty level. Also, the repeating rooms are not a good thing in any sense. The game is good enough to overcome it, but they do not in any way improve the experience in the way some in this thread would have you believe.

I have to say though that playing up to the first checkpoint of one level is hardly an indication of a games inherent qualities. I've completed halo on legendary without dying at all. thats all 10 levels on one life. And trust me it was the most exhilerating experience of my gaming life.

[kerraig UK]

Halo is better on Heroic than Legendary.

agreed

[Uncle Nasty]

Couldn't disagree more.

I think Edge were prophets with this one. The game is getting on for being three years old and yet I still have 5-6 hour multiplayer sessions with it twice a week. Can't say that of any other game ever. Not even mario kart, street fighter 2 or my beloved goldeneye.

I agree, Edge were incredibly insightful to rate it so highly. It's amazing how many of us have found it so highly addictive, I think I played it more or less every day last year, just trawling through the levels over and over again. The replay value is staggering when you consider that there's not a single unlockable item, the only motivation is pure enjoyment. I've given it a rest for a while but I'm definitely going back in now that this thread has reminded me how good it is.

I fucking love Halo, me.

[danryu]

No game is ever a 10, especially by Edge standards, what if Halo 2 is better than Halo (by actually being a complete game for one thing) ? it gets a 10.5?

[Harlen Quinn]

No game is ever a 10, especially by Edge standards, what if Halo 2 is better than Halo (by actually being a complete game for one thing) ? it gets a 10.5?

They're all rated in the NOW. So, arguably, a NOW 10 is worth more than a THEN 10. That's why Halo is better than GE. Didn't GE get 9?