Peter Moore at C&VG

[Wiper]

MetalGear was created by Hideo Kojima in KCEJ- so that's a Japanese franchise. And the one which created the stealth-driven action game.

EDIT- which, just to be clear, is a genre strongly associated with the West.

Fine, ignore the post above yours

To my knowledge Castle Wolfenstein pioneered the Stealth Action genre 6 years before Metal Gear: in 1981. Metal Gear was probably more important to that genre in the long run (the Wolfenstein series going on to create the FPS of course) but it seems likely that Kojima may have been influenced by it (or any other early stealth-action games that I happen to be unaware of)

[Badger]

Hmmmm.

I can see both sides with some valid points. But I don't think there's a need to find an unusual Japanese game and hold it up like a rabid fanboy shouting "Look! It's Original! East Roolz. West Suckz"

Everyone proclaims about how successful Sony is. Everyone proclaims about how massmarket Sony is. Microsoft does poorly in the East, but ok in US and UK etc... So why shouldn't they aim to get Japanese publishers to make mainstream, world-wide games rather than manga stuff.

I can remember the big boom when Manga first arrived but you don't see it on general release in all major cinemas. You do, however, now see Jackie Chan or Takeshi Kitano in most towns and cities....

[Professor Puzzles]

I can remember the big boom when Manga first arrived but you don't see it on general release in all major cinemas. You do, however, now see Jackie Chan or Takeshi Kitano in most towns and cities....

That's true.

Why, just the other day I was walking through Leeds when I bumped into Takeshi Kitano, who I then invited back to my house for tea. Unfortunately, I am now missing the little finger of my left hand.

[roadkill]

Everyone proclaims about how successful Sony is. Everyone proclaims about how massmarket Sony is. Microsoft does poorly in the East, but ok in US and UK etc... So why shouldn't they aim to get Japanese publishers to make mainstream, world-wide games rather than manga stuff.

But MS tried to get some japanese people to make a sudeki equivalent, but got turned down, later announcing "the japanese aren't good enough" and financing climax to do it instead.

Personally I think gaming as a whole is in severe creative duldrums, and it just happens that about the two people on earth making decent games at the moment are japanese. That guy who heads up AV should be given a medal.

A lot of great japanese creativity is at work on mobile phone stuff now. Some of it is in the truly nuts category. Like hop scotch and snowfighting games.

[Systemshock]

Although I think the man's gone a little far, I do feel there is some element of truth in his words.

Putting aside his 'embrace X-Box' message, as far as I'm concerned it's the 'West' who have pointed the way forward in this generation, with the Japanese relying on inferior re-issues of old favourites (Sega, what's happened there?) and endless versions of tried and tested puzzle games and 2D shmups that the hardcore pretend to get excited over (winky smile).

Aside from the occasional Nintendo AAA game, Japanese videogame development has held little interest to me this generation, it's not something that I can put my finger on, but I think it would be fair to say it's the West who have recieved the most critical praise this generation (Bungie, Ubi etc) and certainly the smaller percentage of my shelf contains typically 'Japanese' type games this time around.

I'm as suprised as anyone about that. Perhaps my tastes have changed? or perhaps outside of Japan the increased power and 3D capabilies of consoles have been completely embraced by western developers?

Also, there are hints that Japanese publishers are looking to create more 'Western' style games, so perhaps things will change.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me (especially here) but I thought I'd add an alternative viewpoint anyway.

Nope, I've thought about it and still have preferred more Japanese games than Western ones in the last 3 years (and that includes Metroid Prime as a Western game ignoring any of the input received from Japan). Having said that Ominusha and Dynasty Warrior type games aren't really my cup of tea nor Devil May Cry.

[Badger]

But MS tried to get some japanese people to make a sudeki equivalent, but got turned down, later announcing "the japanese aren't good enough" and financing climax to do it instead.

Personally I think gaming as a whole is in severe creative duldrums, and it just happens that about the two people on earth making decent games at the moment are japanese. That guy who heads up AV should be given a medal.

A lot of great japanese creativity is at work on mobile phone stuff now. Some of it is in the truly nuts category. Like hop scotch and snowfighting games.

GTA?

(I'll get my coat)

[roadkill]

GTA?

(I'll get my coat)

Yep, do.

I think it's a bit crap . . .

And how old is the concept? Or am I missing something? It's hardly original.

The first one was almost 10 years ago now.

In fact, I find it's popularity a worrying indictment of society as a whole. But that's another issue entirely.

[Popo]

Fine, ignore the post above yours

To my knowledge Castle Wolfenstein pioneered the Stealth Action genre 6 years before Metal Gear: in 1981. Metal Gear was probably more important to that genre in the long run (the Wolfenstein series going on to create the FPS of course) but it seems likely that Kojima may have been influenced by it (or any other early stealth-action games that I happen to be unaware of)

I never played Castle wolfenstein extensively, but as I recall the objective of it was to encounter and shoot enemies - Metal Gear was about avoiding contact with enemies, so I'm not sure how you could say Wolfie was the stealth "pioneer", when it was clearly skewed towards confrontation, not avoidance.

Metal Gear is clearly the originator of stealth in games, at least as far as I'm aware. Hideo Kojima went on record as saying that his inspiration for the games were playing hide and seek as a kid.

One thing I think Moore is wrong about is when he says Japanese developers are going to be practically begging for the XNA platform. what exactly is convincing him of this?

[footle]

Japan.

Home of the hardcore gamer.

Yokohama Station.

West Exit.

Turn right.

Walk into the Namco Arcade directly in front of you.

2 photo booth games.

2 rhythm action games.

The rest of it is full of crane "games".

[ I ignore, for the purposes of argument, all of the other arcades that you'll probably stumble across if you turn *left* when leaving the west exit... ]

--------

As for Moore:

I'm stunned that Microsoft haven't cut their losses in Japan for this generation already. They're practically giving the things away.

And his target audience (Westerners at the GDC) probably want to hear how they're the ones being innovative.

Though GTA3 is pretty much it, as far as I can tell.

{ Actually, GTA3 is pretty much it, whatever country we're talking about }

Best Arcade Racer this gen? Burnout 2 (UK)

Best Online Arcade Racer? PGR2 (UK)

Best Platformer? Prince of Persia:SOT (UK)

Best Rhythm Action Game? Amplitude (USA)

Best RPG? KoToR (Canada)

Best FPS? Halo (Americas... I cry in shame)

Best Adventure? Metroid Prime (USA)

Best Free-Roaming Crime Em Up? GTA3:(VC) (UK)

Innovation ain't all that, but most of the above either were born (or significantly reshaped - GTA2 and GTA3 are significantly different, PoP3 and PoP:SoT are significantly different (one is good, for a start...) etc.) in this generation or are sequels to games that *were* born in the generation.

[Guest Two Heavens]

One thing I think Moore is wrong about is when he says Japanese developers are going to be practically begging for the XDA platform. what exactly is convincing him of this?

Well, that's his job isn't it. You don't sell a product by saying "Oh well, maybe they'll want it".

I guess it's all just Microsoft changing tack on selling stuff to the Japanese. Sure, it's a slightly strange direction to take, but presumably they feel they've got to try something.

[Popo]

Amplitude? Get DDR in you maniac, nothing beats it. And Japan is still the king of the RPG, they seem to have the elusive ability of making them fun.

Heck, DDR is the most innovative thing I've played since I first got into games.

[roadkill]

Best Arcade Racer this gen? Burnout 2 (UK)

Best Online Arcade Racer? PGR2 (UK)

Best Platformer? Prince of Persia:SOT (UK)

Best Rhythm Action Game? Amplitude (USA)

Best RPG? KoToR (Canada)

Best FPS? Halo (Americas... I cry in shame)

Best Adventure? Metroid Prime (USA)

Best Free-Roaming Crime Em Up? GTA3:(VC) (UK)

Selective genre choices though.

And subjective even then. Just look at the (imo deserved) Prince of Persia backlash in progress. PGR2 as well, who cares about a distinction between online/standard.

How about:

Best handheld game?

Best puzzle game?

Best arcade machine?

Best turn based strategy game?

Personally I see the overall standard of games at the moment as barely above the third party titles on the N64, which would get hailed by N64 fanboys as greatness, when anyone else would go "yes, Mario 64 and a few other games are incredibly good, but the rest is tat".

I think there's collective denial. Higher production values than ever. Duller than ever.

[No Control]

"Last time [i was at E3] I thought I saw the same game 15 times over - a guy with a gun running around"

[Halo]

Best Arcade Racer this gen? Burnout 2 (UK)

What, no F-Zero GX?

[Anastrophe]

Japan.

Home of the hardcore gamer.

Yokohama Station.

West Exit.

Turn right.

Walk into the Namco Arcade directly in front of you.

2 photo booth games.

2 rhythm action games.

The rest of it is full of crane "games".

I'm suprised at this since i was in Akhibara on Friday (thanks for giving me the opportunity to tell someone that ) and all the other games are usually upstairs - and this is a consistent layout in Tokyo arcades. This tends to be due to not wanting to drag little children up narrow staircases into smoke filled rooms to win a dolly from a crane machine.

[Unofficial Who]

There's been no western Viewtiful Joe, Pikmin, Gregory Horror Show, Monkey Ball, Animal Crossing, etc. etc.

Not to criticise but,

Viewtiful Joe : stylised refined version of loads of old scrolly platform beat 'em ups.

Super Monkey Ball : stylised version of the old Atari coin op Marble Madness.

Animal Crossing : cutesy version of the Sims. Which in itself has its roots going back to Little Computer People on the C64.

But before we get too sidetracked on the origins...

The guy is right. New version of old games. (In 3D. Again. Wow.)

But the west shouldn't be complacent.

Look at the majority of the west's offerings.

First Person Shooters.

Real time strategy.

Racing.

Football.

Things need to change and soon. We need to see a return of experimentation to the scene.

We need to see some risk.

Because if all the next gen is going to offer me is a prettier Zelda, a more realistic driving game, yet another football game and yet another more graphic FPS which invariably involves me waundering through a higher res sewer...well you can count me out.

[Unofficial Who]

What, no F-Zero GX?

He's right.

I have both F-Zero X and Burnout 2.

Burnout 2 is clearly the winner.

And one of the few games that friends have actually rushed out to buy after playing it my place. (Super Monkey Ball being the other.)

[Cyhwuhx]

"Last time [i was at E3] I thought I saw the same game 15 times over - a guy with a gun running around"

.::: We're never going to get rid of this quote now eh?

Here's the template;

"Last time [i was at (x)] I thought I saw the same game (n) times over - a (y) with a (z) running around."

[Guest Two Heavens]

"Last time [i was at anything with Nintendo at it] I thought I saw the same game 56 times over - a plumber with a moustache running around."

[Jack]

"Last time [i was at X03], I thought I saw J Allard felching the same demon 50 times over"

[Systemshock]

The last few times I have looked at the C&VG web site is had become an Xbox advertising bill board (mind you I looked just now and it didn't seem as bad). They are getting extremely pro Xbox and pro west. Positively that might be because of some of the games coming to Xbox this year but in comparison to Eurogamer it looks extreme.

Compare their comments on lasdt weeks UK sales chart:

C&VG

XBOX SALES ROCKET IN UK

Crystal Xbox and Pandora Tomorrow give Microsoft's console a massive sales surge, narrowing the gap between PS2

14:08 Xbox hardware enjoyed a massive surge in the UK for the week ending March 27, with sales rising a whopping 65 percent week on week, according to the latest figures from ChartTrack.

The leap in numbers is largely accounted for by the release late last week of Ubisoft's superb Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, and the limited edition Crystal Edition Xbox, both of which went on sale last Friday. Various retail outlets such as Game are also offering both products as a value bundle (Game's weighing in at £159.98).

This boost comes after a huge week for Microsoft, in which at last week's Game Developers Conference it unveiled its masterplan to drive next-generation content: XNA (see here for full details).

Pandora Tomorrow also rocketed to the top of this week's all-formats UK charts, compiled by ChartTrack, and since the game and the Crystal Xbox only had two days at retail when the latest figures were compiled, Microsoft will be counting on continued success this week.

The 65 percent rise brought Xbox within 4,000 units of Sony's PS2, week on week, sales of the latter dropping slightly over the seven day period.

Elsewhere, the only other hardware to enjoy an increase in sales was GameCube, its minor gain helped along by the release of the GameCube-exclusive Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes.

Eurogamer

Ubisoft's Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow has gone straight in at number one in the UK charts, making it into the third fastest selling Xbox title of all time - directly behind Halo and the original Splinter Cell title.

The game displaced EA's James Bond 007: Everything or Nothing from the top spot, ending its month-long run at number one - although the title continued to sell well, with a number two ranking this week.

Another Ubisoft title, PC first person shooter Far Cry, was the next highest new entry in the chart, coming in at number four and taking the crown for fastest selling PC DVD title of all time from Unreal Tournament 2004 after only a single week.

The only other new entry in the top ten was Konami's GameCube Metal Gear Solid title, The Twin Snakes, which debuted at number seven with a better first week performance that any format of Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance, although it was still a long way behind the hugely successful Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty, shifting only 14 per cent of the week one unit sales of that title.

Outside of the top ten, a number of new titles made it into the ranking, including Sony's This Is Football 2004 at number 14, with the company no doubt hoping for strong word of mouth for the PS2-exclusive title thanks to its groundbreaking online gaming capabilities.

There are yet more new Ubisoft titles in the ranking, with the PS2 version of Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3 driving the title up to number 18, while GameCube exclusive Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life makes it in at number 22.

The final new release in this week's chart is Konami's latest Yu-Gi-Oh! title, with Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championship Tournament 2004 making it in at number 36 in the chart. The other new release of the week, Vivendi's Counter-Strike: Condition Zero, doesn't feature in the full-price chart as it's a budget priced release, but it's at number 19 in the all-formats, all-prices chart.

On the missing in action list this week are THQ's MX Unleashed, which did quite well in the USA but is nowhere to be seen on the UK chart, Atari's Kya: Dark Lineage and Activision's MTX: Mototrax, while Capcom's Steel Battalion - Line of Contact also fails to chart, although that's unsurprising given how few copies of the game were made available.

For the full chart listing, see here.

Which strikes you as the most balanced gaming journalism?

[roadkill]

Because if all the next gen is going to offer me is a prettier Zelda, a more realistic driving game, yet another football game and yet another more graphic FPS which invariably involves me waundering through a higher res sewer...well you can count me out.

How is that any different from what's actually happened though?

Driving games haven't improved since the Gran Turismo series arrived

Zelda is "more of the same" with (admittedly great) new graphics

FPS' are just graphical improvements

Nowt new in platformers since Mario 64

RTS? Why does anyone playing an RTS seem to still be playing ancient versions of Command and Conquer?

etc.

And this is from someone that loves Sunshine etc. but they are just more of the same.

[Systemshock]

How is that any different from what's actually happened though?

Driving games haven't improved since the Gran Turismo series arrived

Zelda is "more of the same" with (admittedly great) new graphics

FPS' are just graphical improvements

Nowt new in platformers since Mario 64

RTS? Why does anyone playing an RTS seem to still be playing ancient versions of Command and Conquer?

etc.

And this is from someone that loves Sunshine etc. but they are just more of the same.

Fair comment although I have to say that playing a MMORPG for the first time (FFXI) has been a massive new step forward for me. Mind you if I'd originally been playing Ultima etc maybe I'd feel different about that. Zelda TWW was really my first Zelda game so I loved that and Super Monkey Ball my first monkey in a ball rolling an obstacle course game. Advancve Wars II was my first on the go strategy game. Xbox live has been a very new experience for a lot of gamers.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you look hard enough there is always something new and great.

[footle]

I'm suprised at this since i was in Akhibara on Friday (thanks for giving me the opportunity to tell someone that ) and all the other games are usually upstairs - and this is a consistent layout in Tokyo arcades. This tends to be due to not wanting to drag little children up narrow staircases into smoke filled rooms to win a dolly from a crane machine.

Yes - I wandered around looking for a staircase.

Didn't find one.

Wandered outside and realised there wasn't a second floor.

I have a strong feeling that there's a load of arcades off the other side of the station.

I think I might have a look now whilst searching out some food...

[ edit - there is, but vastly outnumbered by the huge numbers of pachinko (sp) and slot joints, and nothing to rival the Sega arcade nearest the station in Akihabara (sp) ]

Selective choice of Genres? Yes, of course. But then, I don't tend to play on the GBA:SP much, and the only puzzle game I can think of this gen is Super Monkey Ball.

DDR - far too tiring, not linked enough to the music.

F-Zero GX - Yawn :D

PoP backlash? Idiots. I say.

[Unofficial Who]

How is that any different from what's actually happened though?

Taking What you've said point by point.

Driving games haven't improved since the Gran Turismo series arrived

I prefer my driving games more arcade flavoured.

Having said that Burnout 2 is fantastic. The addition of the pursuit mode (Chase HQ in all but name) and the crash mode makes the game. In fact, after playing Outrun 2 in the arcade I'd say Sega had better add some features for the home version, otherwise I'm not interested.

Zelda is "more of the same" with (admittedly great) new graphics

Which is probably why I haven't bought The Wind Waker yet.

FPS' are just graphical improvements

Battlefield is so much fun, mainly due to the removal of corridors (the landscape is your main cover here) and the addition of veichles. Two minor things that change the entire nature of the game.

Nowt new in platformers since Mario 64

Which is why I don't feel compelled to play the copy of Sunshine I have sitting around at home.

Or Warcraft 2. Or Starcraft. Beats me. I get my strategy fix from Fire Emblem at the moment.

And this is from someone that loves Sunshine etc. but they are just more of the same.

The industry needs new blood. And now.

[Alex W.]

I'm not sure how you made those quote tags stop working, but I'm impressed at how incongruent they made that post.

[Unofficial Who]

I'm not sure how you made those quote tags stop working, but I'm impressed at how incongruent they made that post.

I know, I don't know how to fix it