Jump to content

Lost - The Full Series Thread


Goose
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hey there.

"it was always about the characters" is clearly bollocks.

Despin out.

I've heard that some people out there actually cared more about Sun and Jin than discovering what the island was all about. As ludicrous as it sounds to normal people, apparently it's true. Sun and Jin. And Claire.

I only ever cared about Vincent, who became the leader of the island with Walt underwater after Hurley's fat ass sank it. Explains the water coming from Walt's mouth and the mighty Vincent not being at the church. All hail Vincent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really enjoyed it up until the final 20 minutes. The conclusion they came up with was half-baked a clearly rushed - why did they need to cram in about 20 new character realisations mere hours before this final concert event? Why not spread out the realisations more across the whole of this series and cut out the really unneccesary crap that went on in limbo? Why is any of that stuff important? How did Desmond suss everything out?

I'm not too bothered about answers to absolutely everything, but this finale was a big swing and a miss from the writers. A big fat own goal. They totally copped out with the limbo bullshit (which I didn't really appreciate like most here, I thought it was quite forced and ham-fisted). Though it was touching in a way to see all the character reuinite, they could have tied that up in many much better ways - I thought maybe that it would transpire that the island was actually limbo/purgatory (surely their original plan?), and actually the alt timeline was how life may have continued had they not crashed. They were in limbo on the island and their experiences/interactions there helped them realise things about themselves and have their own redemptions/epiphanies, and through either destroying the island/getting rid of the 'magical power' keeping them there, they could transfer back to the mortal coil, where they would live out better lives having realised the errors of their ways.

There are loads of different theories for how they could have more or less tied this up in a satisfactory way, some of which have already been more or less suggested exactly how I imagined by others. I had a couple of my own, mainly revolving more around Jacob and MiB and how they could have been the bridge between the two worlds.

It almost feels to me as if they picked the ending out of a hat, out a few possible finales. Yet they ended up going with the most disappointing and scrappy one possible. Nothing really hangs together now, many many things from previous seasons are rendered completely irrelevant or just bizarre - not to mention things from even the finale - why, for example, did Jack not turn into a smoke monster? That would have been a much better turn of events. And why was he spat out of the cave, still alive, and still mortal? That just seemed like a totally inconsistent and unconvincing device to make sure the final shot could be Jack lying on the beach exactly where he woke up. And why he went and did at the end doesn't really make sense either.

I've enjoyed the show throughout its run, and I didn't expect many answers, but I also didn't expect to have the finale totally cheapen everything that went before. The way they've explained things in the finale basically means that the island had no significance at all, it was just an experience that happened to some people and then they died. What was the point of it all? The fact we never found out straight exactly what MiBs intentions were, and what would happen if he got his wish, means that we don't know if anything bad at all would have happened, so were the characters actually fulfilling any purpose throughout the show?

The limbo had no need to be shown in such depth, taking up so much time of this last season, and it should not have been the be-all and end-all all along when it clearly was tacked on at the last minute because they couldn't figure out how to tie everything else up. The wasted time on limbo goings on meant that the finale just felt massively rushed, convoluted, and full of holes.

I think maybe originally they planned for the island itself to be purgatory, a place for the characters to realise they lead flawed lives - something that was a consistent theme in the first couple of seasons. A place of redemption. Either that, or they intended very early on for the flashbacks to show the limbo life - was it ever really very explicitly explained that those were flashbacks early on in S1? Because my instinct at the moment tells me that they kind of tweaked the whole thread of the show when they realised they were going to make a few seasons, so then they decided not present the flashbacks as the limbo life, rather a backstory to the characters. I mean, if we're going to give the writers some credit and assume this limbo thing was the plan all along, then it makes sense that had the show only been comissioned for 1 season, that these flashbacks would have transpired to be actually the characters in an afterlife, where they all meet up at the end of S1. Either that, or their flashbacks were showing them their flaws, so that on the island (in limbo) they could have the realisation of all the things they've done wrong in their lives, and either be released from the island and go on to live their lives, or released into the proper afterlife.

S6 just feels on reflection like a total mess to me, they had 17 eps, which was more than enough to bring it to some sort of satisfying conclusion. But it's like they just gave up on all the cool threads and mysteries they started, sacked it off and wrote this cop-out ending with a load of irrlevant guff to go with it. And a load of stuff which is just completely at odds with what has gone before, which really makes me wonder if they were just making stuff up as they went along after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey there.

"it was always about the characters" is clearly bollocks.

It's funny. With Lost now being sold as always having been "a character first show" I walk away from it not thinking about characters but about problems I have with the plot...

Contrast this with a show like... The West Wing. A show that was clearly a "character first" show from day one. I barely remember any of the plots from that show. Just character, character, character. When that show ended I missed hanging with the characters. I still miss them.

I think Lost will fade from our memories very very quickly.

Despin out.

Look back at season one and say that it's not a character piece. The only mysteries back then were what the island is, what is the monster and what's in the hatch? It wasn't even a sci-fi show back then. The show had flashbacks in which we learnt about the pasts of the characters. The show changed a lot over the years when it went sci-fi but it was still about these characters survival on this island.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ι understand your need for answers, but I really think there is no need for some of them to be answered.

Some things just happened, because of the island. Others just are, because of the mythology.

My point is, you can apply many of these questions to Lord of the Rings too, but you just accept the lack of proper answers due to it being fantasy.

Many questions can also be raised about Galactica, but you just accept them because it's science fiction.

The same logic can be applied to Lost, even if the producers once said they had scientific answers.

I actually feel that Lord of the Rings stuck to its guns extremely well. The only anomaly I can think of there is Tom Bombadil, who wasn't explained in the books to any great depth, but it was understood that where he lived and who he was, was extremely old and very powerful, yet he chose not to recognise the power in such a way that Sauron did.

I've never seen BSG so I can't comment on that. Lost however I had watched and it was a show that went to great lengths to construct this fantastic mythology and set of rules, but they never gave a satisfactory summary of what they were or meant.

Maybe the best we can pull from that is that the rules were all Jacobs, and whoever runs the Island chooses what can and can't happen. So with that concept Jacob was the Watchman and MiB was the watcher of the Watchman, bound to his rules, but also bound to the rules of the Island (the rules of the butt plug). Jack didn't change anything during his time, but he found a way to lift the rules of the island (by removing the butt plug). From the brief we have between Hurley and Ben at the end it seems that whatever they did together changed the rules for the better and allowed the people that came to the Island to live a more enjoyable life without fear (Going off both their character personalities at the end).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look back at season one and say that it's not a character piece. The only mysteries back then were what the island is, what is the monster and what's in the hatch? It wasn't even a sci-fi show back then. The show had flashbacks in which we learnt about the pasts of the characters. The show changed a lot over the years when it went sci-fi but it was still about these characters survival on this island.

That's the thing though, like someone already mentioned, they lost some of that aspect when everything went batshit mental somewhere around S3. Admittedly the end of S3/S4 reignited my interest as I was tiring a little of the characters, but Lost stopped being primarily a character based drama a long time ago. The mythical and scientific took over in a big way around halfway through the entire show, and the characters just became puppets of the writers, being thrown into roles sometimes with little consideration of thought to whether it would fit with their previous behaviour/characteristics, to make advancements in the plot. If they wanted to create the ending they did all along, then why bother to introduce all that other stuff unless it was just to misdirect and give a massive 'fuck you' to all the people that invested heavily in the scientific/mystery stuff?

The point is the ending is totally at odds with the tone of the show as it has been since S4 when it shifted dramatically. This ending may have made sense and been satisfactory to close off the show after it's first or second season, but as it stands it's just really lame. They're basically admitting half the seasons were pointless filler, and it was never really about the island all along, just the personalities/experiences of the characters throughout their lives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ι understand your need for answers, but I really think there is no need for some of them to be answered.

Some things just happened, because of the island. Others just are, because of the mythology.

My point is, you can apply many of these questions to Lord of the Rings too, but you just accept the lack of proper answers due to it being fantasy.

Many questions can also be raised about Galactica, but you just accept them because it's science fiction.

The same logic can be applied to Lost, even if the producers once said they had scientific answers.

I wouldn't say LoTR is a great example for that, as Tolkein went to great lengths to create a world, it's creation and mythology which Lost hasn't really done. I don't want answers to everything but a better explanation of the island and the role it plays in the world would have been nice.

It's the episode about Jacob and his brother that's become the biggest disappointment for me now, such a missed opportunity. Are these two special or just the latest in a long line of protectors. Did CJ love MiB more just because, or did she know eventually one would always want to leave putting the island and world at risk, so she wanted to try and prevent it. Where the people special or just the latest to end up on the island, look the last lot built these temples etc. That really could have been used as an explanation for the island and it's finale, leaving us happily with this ending for the story of the people on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which many moaned about. 'Not another Jack episode.' 'Not another Kate episode.' 'Not another fucking Sun and Jin episode.'

Was that a case of us getting to the point where we knew who Jack was, what his faults were and what type of character he was; so any centric episode about him was predictable. That moaning came about the time when the Island became the more interesting character to follow, the hatch, the stations, the symbols and the concepts of what linked them together. If Lost was really just a character show then it was fairly weak really, I always felt that the character part was a way to offer a watchable show to the masses who could almost discount the mystery and mythology and concentrate on whether Kate was going to kiss Jack or Sawyer in each episode. I think someone already made the statement, about Lost being based on the Nerd dollar. What answers were given to those people that paused every frame, transcribed every whisper and captured every symbol?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, regardless of all this, the real acid test is this - 6 months from now, a new show is announced from Cuse & Lindelof, 'From the Makers of Lost' and it's another mystery show in the same vein.

Hypothetically, it's contracted up front for 6 seasons.

Who'd be up for it? Who'd rather avoid the whole thing in light of how LOST played out?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, regardless of all this, the real acid test is this - 6 months from now, a new show is announced from Cuse & Lindelof, 'From the Makers of Lost' and it's another mystery show in the same vein.

Hypothetically, it's contracted up front for 6 seasons.

Who'd be up for it? Who'd rather avoid the whole thing in light of how LOST played out?

I think they were victims of their own ambitions and they just introduced far too many elements in an effort to keep it interesting. In the end there was just such a myriad of themes, elements and mysteries that were introduced but never properly closed off, that they found no way to tie anything up sucessfully so they went for a cop-out ending.

In theory, if they were contracted to make 6 series up front, so they would properly be able to plan everything out roughly from start to finish, i'd be up for giving it a chance. Otherwise no, i'd avoid getting into anything that these guys are involved with if there's any chance they will be making most of it up as they go along a la LOST.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And love that if the main message of the program has been "learn to let go" then we, the viewing public, can also buy into that and "learn to let LOST go", lets not pick over the bones and inconsistancies too much and ruin the memories. It's been one hell of a ride for me over the last 6 years - I struggle to think of any other program I've invested so much emotion and

thought on.

Exactly what I said to a completely baffled girl this morning after explaining what I thought the ending meant. It was such a deep and clever series and when you step back and look at what the producers have done it's just astonishing - and I'm not talking about the surface Lost 'mysteries' here, but the deeper core of the show.

Made up quote: "It doesn't matter how you get there, or what happens on the way, it's who you choose to be with at the end"

I didn't know the ending was what I wanted ("Not another bloody Kate, Jack or Sun episode!" I would sometimes cry) but that completely changed when I realised what was happening. and what I got was perfect.

I'm an atheist, but something very close to spiritual was tickled by a TV show last night and I'm still buzzing from it.

Which many moaned about. 'Not another Jack episode.' 'Not another Kate episode.' 'Not another fucking Sun and Jin episode.'

Heh, I'd just written my post before reading this :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, regardless of all this, the real acid test is this - 6 months from now, a new show is announced from Cuse & Lindelof, 'From the Makers of Lost' and it's another mystery show in the same vein.

Hypothetically, it's contracted up front for 6 seasons.

Who'd be up for it? Who'd rather avoid the whole thing in light of how LOST played out?

I'd watch. I'm not sure how much "casuals" would. My mum stuck with Lost until the end, but she wouldn't do it with another show. It's already happened in her case. She watched the first episode of Fringe (marketed at the time as being from the creator of Lost), but while she did like that episode, she thought it was going to be another Lost so went no further.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, regardless of all this, the real acid test is this - 6 months from now, a new show is announced from Cuse & Lindelof, 'From the Makers of Lost' and it's another mystery show in the same vein.

Hypothetically, it's contracted up front for 6 seasons.

Who'd be up for it? Who'd rather avoid the whole thing in light of how LOST played out?

I doubt I would be if they eventually resolved it the way they did with Lost. I was looking forward to watching the whole series again with a view to seeing what the explanations were for so many things (most already listed here so I won't list them again). But if I watch it again, I'll just have the same old questions and the same old missing answers.

I invested in the series, because the mysteries of the first 5 seasons had me hooked, and for me personally, it feels like they decided to only really give us answers for the happenings of the "flash sideways" in the final season. I am not sure I want to follow a series like that again - presuming they made one of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did anyone else think we it was going to get all Matrix Reloaded after Flocke was killed, and it cut to the alt-world with Locke waking up from his operation? I was convinced it was going to go this:

Locke: it worked

Jacke: erm, I doubt you'd be able to....

Locke: Jack, you don't understand. IT WORKED!!

<cue plume of black smoke coursing through the hospital killing everyone>

Actually as soon he wiggled his toe and Jack got all surprised I was hoping it being a practical joke by the staff of the hospital.

Jack: "How, how is that possible?"

Locke: "It worked!"

/Jack lifts up blanket

Jack: "Ahh okay who put the hamster in here? "

*lots of laughs in the background*

Jack: "WHO?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Remember how well some of the mysteries have paid off in previous seasons? Even way back in season 1, when they heard a mysterious voice over a walkie talkie saying "the passengers on Oceanic 815 are all dead!", fuelling the 'purgatory' theories. Then in season 2 it turned out it was Bernard, who had found another walkie! Cool mystery, logical explanation. That kind of thing does highlight season 6 as being a bit of a mess.

Still, I did love that episode which concentrated on MiB and Sawyer where they go to Jacob's cave. That was the pinnacle of season 6. Richard and Desmond's episodes aside, it was downhill from there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've enjoyed the show throughout its run, and I didn't expect many answers, but I also didn't expect to have the finale totally cheapen everything that went before. The way they've explained things in the finale basically means that the island had no significance at all, it was just an experience that happened to some people and then they died. What was the point of it all? The fact we never found out straight exactly what MiBs intentions were, and what would happen if he got his wish, means that we don't know if anything bad at all would have happened, so were the characters actually fulfilling any purpose throughout the show?

It was pretty obvious - the mother of MIB/Jacob said that the heart of the island was the source... a little of that light is in everyone (or something similar), implying that without it there is no life. Therefore they were saving life by saving the island. She also says that too much of the light has bad effects - it is theorised that she is a smoke monster herself, though if so it is weakly displayed. The MIB is clearly fed up with his own existence - he wanted to leave; to live, as is explicitly shown, but Jacob's rules and the powers make him unable to so he wants to end all existence as revenge. Without this existence, there is no afterlife for the losties so not only is it saving life, but the afterlife. Admittedly it could have been better shown, but it isn't that obscure either.

The limbo had no need to be shown in such depth, taking up so much time of this last season, and it should not have been the be-all and end-all all along when it clearly was tacked on at the last minute because they couldn't figure out how to tie everything else up. The wasted time on limbo goings on meant that the finale just felt massively rushed, convoluted, and full of holes.

I don't think it was wasted, but you are entitled to feel that, because the pay-off was so marvellous to me. More time was wasted on much of the ridiculous temple stuff that really went nowehere.

I think maybe originally they planned for the island itself to be purgatory, a place for the characters to realise they lead flawed lives - something that was a consistent theme in the first couple of seasons. A place of redemption.

Forget the purgatory idea - it was a place for them to correct their flaws; a place of redemption. But it was about doing this in their lifetime, not in some tenuous afterlife period, surely this is more poignant?. The culmination of this is shown with Jack finally managing to fix something without regret or remorse - he is content. I suppose the island is a purgatory where you are judged to be good or evil, but only in the same way that life is like that too.

Either that, or they intended very early on for the flashbacks to show the limbo life - was it ever really very explicitly explained that those were flashbacks early on in S1? Because my instinct at the moment tells me that they kind of tweaked the whole thread of the show when they realised they were going to make a few seasons, so then they decided not present the flashbacks as the limbo life, rather a backstory to the characters. I mean, if we're going to give the writers some credit and assume this limbo thing was the plan all along, then it makes sense that had the show only been comissioned for 1 season, that these flashbacks would have transpired to be actually the characters in an afterlife, where they all meet up at the end of S1. Either that, or their flashbacks were showing them their flaws, so that on the island (in limbo) they could have the realisation of all the things they've done wrong in their lives, and either be released from the island and go on to live their lives, or released into the proper afterlife.

I think it is pretty clear that they can't have had the foresight to know they'd have six seasons, it seems unfair to do otherwise. Of course they will have had contingencies. Though if they do claim that, then shame on them. There are obviously points where significant changes were made - Ben, for example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't say LoTR is a great example for that, as Tolkein went to great lengths to create a world, it's creation and mythology which Lost hasn't really done. I don't want answers to everything but a better explanation of the island and the role it plays in the world would have been nice.

Ι agree, but my point was that you can ask questions that their answers simply lie in the mythology and you just accept them.

You can ask "how did Gandalf stop the Balrog? How did he know such spell?" and the answer would be "he is a great mage, in fact he is not even human". That's accepted.

I agree that the mythology needed better explanations for many stuff, but I kinda like, for a TV show, that so many things are only hinted at.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey there.

Someone earlier said they thought the overall message of the show was "learn to let go" I don't buy that at all.

By the end it seemed to be NOTHING matters. Because at the end of the day you'll get to meet up with all your old friends and live happily ever after in a magical after world.

It was fucking insulting. A cop out. It was like something a parent would say to their kid or a retarded person when the fucking goldfish dies.

Despin out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that not knowing what was so bad about Smokey getting off the island was a big oversight. When he's reduced to a mortal and about to get on his boat - they could have just let him sail off surely? Of course, by this point he's killed Sun and Jin so he was doomed. But it just seemed like a revenge killing at that point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that not knowing what was so bad about Smokey getting off the island was a big oversight. When he's reduced to a mortal and about to get on his boat - they could have just let him sail off surely? Of course, by this point he's killed Sun and Jin so he was doomed. But it just seemed like a revenge killing at that point.

And he's also destroyed the island as well. So when Jack reinserts the plug to save the island, I would assume that he reverts to Smokey format.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate the way that most of the show's questions have basically been answered by "Woo! Magic cave!". It's like BSG's "God did it" but even worse.

What was the secret of the island? Magic cave!

What caused the plane to crash? Magic cave!

What caused the time travelling? Magic cave!

What was Jacob trying to protect? Magic cave!

What was the origin of the smoke monster? Magic cave!

Why did the island heal people? Magic cave!

Why was there a polar bear on the island? Magic cave!

Why could no-one have children on the island? Magic cave!

Why did Juliet only have one facial expression? Magic cave!

And so on.

Actually, the one thing I don't understand is: what was the point of the candidates anyway? How exactly did Jacob "protect" the cave and how were the candidates supposed to do this? Why couldn't Smokey just leave the island whenever he wanted?

I can understand the show not resolving mysteries that were raised early on (though it should have bloody well tried to do so) but not answering the key questions of its final series is very poor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get peoples disbelief that Jack didn't turn into a Smoke Monster just because he went into the cave. It's things like that where you should be creating your own stories and mythologies and expanding the Lost mythology into your own thing, isn't that where the fun of watching it came from?

When MiB went down into the cave he was full of anger and hatred for what his mum had done and denied him all his life, hardly the same as Jack going down there to save the island and everyone he knows and loves. It could've been that Smokey needed all those negative emotions in order to become.

Can we at least agree that Kate looked amazing in that little black number.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the finale was a failure of nerve really. The limbo idea ties in nicely with some concepts - Desmond's glimpses aren't travelling between different worlds but a man glimpsing the afterlife, it provides closure, and it maintains the mystery of the island. But I'd hoped for something a little more sophisticated, it's reams of people booing feels a little manipulative, it's a complete dismissal of the bomb which was framed as the core story idea by the end of series 5, and the idea doesn't really stand up to any kind of analysis.

The bomb stuff works for me, but then it fitted into what I wanted all along: they caused the Incident. Whatever happened, happened. It gave Jack and Sawyer important character stuff to do. Some people thought it created the alt universe, but psyche! that was something else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate the way that most of the show's questions have basically been answered by "Woo! Magic cave!". It's like BSG's "God did it" but even worse.

What was the secret of the island? Magic cave!

What caused the plane to crash? Magic cave!

What caused the time travelling? Magic cave!

What was Jacob trying to protect? Magic cave!

What was the origin of the smoke monster? Magic cave!

Why did the island heal people? Magic cave!

Why was there a polar bear on the island? Magic cave!

Why could no-one have children on the island? Magic cave!

Why did Juliet only have one facial expression? Magic cave!

And so on.

Actually, the one thing I don't understand is: what was the point of the candidates anyway? How exactly did Jacob "protect" the cave and how were the candidates supposed to do this? Why couldn't Smokey just leave the island whenever he wanted?

I can understand the show not resolving mysteries that were raised early on (though it should have bloody well tried to do so) but not answering the key questions of its final series is very poor.

Obvious innit

Magic cave!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vincent \o/

Now that the dust has settled a bit, I really enjoyed the finale. It could have easily slipped into cloying melodrama given the route the writers opted for but thankfully didn't, and instead ended deftly.

I suppose one of the show's strengths was also its biggest failing; it had so many mysteries it was never, ever going to be possible to cover them all (unless the final two hours had been dry exposition). What was covered was satisfying and fitted into the overall arc. Some questions were just narrative devices, others were not really that important, they just 'were'.

It's been an enjoyable, frustrating, mystifying but ultimately fulfilling ride, made all the more enjoyable by all the various theories and thoughts posted by fans of the show. There have been, and will be, better TV shows but few with as much scope and ambition as Lost. I'll miss it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

'Revealed' doesn't mean 'Answered'. More shenanigins. :P

You're right.

They've played the word game well.

Actually there was one moment during that finale that really got me in a classic Lost moment, when Kate said Christian Shepard. I slapped my forehead and said of course, A Christian Shepard, 6 seasons and tens of hours and it never clicked. That's Lost at its best, when it does shit like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.