Lost - The Full Series Thread

[Luke]

Has there been any indication that that was all in place and being used before the bomb? I can't remember to honest.

There were several mentions of the polar bears (Hurley was threatened with being given the job of clearing up after them; someone, Radzinsky?, made a negative comment about the merits of their polar bear experiments), and I think someone in Dharma referred to "Hydra Island".

[Luke]

I really don't think the bomb sank the island. Is this a widespread theory? It just doesn't make much sense to me.

It makes the most sense, to me, as to why the island is now at the bottom of the sea (in that reality). I can't really think of anything else that could sink an island. The combined effects of the hydrogen bomb and "the incident" would kind of make sense. It would be odd that the bomb worked in that reality, destroyed the pocket of energy, but didn't sink the island - and then later something else came along that did sink it.

[Guest]

So how did Ben end up in the middle of the desert?

[Luke]

So how did Ben end up in the middle of the desert?

The same way Locke (and I assume the polar bear with the Dharma collar) did, they were teleported by the special energy at the Orchid station. You turn the wheel, that's where you turn up (I'm not sure if the bear turned the wheel, is this what Dharma were training them to do?, or if it was just put in their device at the Orchid.

Unless I misunderstand your question, or you want a more complete answer as to the how (I doubt we'll ever get that, and don't really think it's important - we know what it does, does it matter how or why?).

[glb]

This is looking nicer and nicer.

When Claire went into hospital and then Ethan popped up, I did smile at the thought of workmate watching and thinking, 'I knew it!' I'm hoping there is some sort of misdirection going on, but his idea is looking on the money at the moment!

Apologies if these have been mentioned before, but even if they have they are well-worth another mention and need a bit of a reminder about how the latest eps tie into past events: http://www.lostvideorecaps.com/category/recaps/.

[makkuwata]

The same way Locke (and I assume the polar bear with the Dharma collar) did, they were teleported by the special energy at the Orchid station. You turn the wheel, that's where you turn up (I'm not sure if the bear turned the wheel, is this what Dharma were training them to do?, or if it was just put in their device at the Orchid.

Unless I misunderstand your question, or you want a more complete answer as to the how (I doubt we'll ever get that, and don't really think it's important - we know what it does, does it matter how or why?).

Yeah, I quite like Widmore's answer - "because that's the exit"

Any further elaboration on that could only be ludicrous.

[CGMF]

The bomb definetely didn't sink the island. As mentioned before, the foot and small wooden houses in the barracks wouldn't have still been there. Hence the deliberate shots of them. It's likely to be connected with the donkey wheel island-moving mechanism, or the button not being pushed, or the bomb going off underwater and causing a tsunami or something. Or even another concept not introduced yet. It's ridiculously obvious that they want you to think that the bomb sunk the island when it's probably something we couldn't even guess at this point.

Because why would hydrogen the bomb going off cause the island to sink in one 'reality' but not the other?

[Luke]

I would have thought it was ridiculously obvious that they showed those things to make it clear it was the island that they were showing us.

It's also ridiculously obvious that a tsunami can't permanently submerge an island.

I do find it odd that the bomb would sink the island, but it would be more odd that it didn't, but did cause the two timelines, and susequently something happened in the one timeline that sunk the island.

I think it's perfectly plausible (within Lost) that the island could have been sunk by a bomb destroying the energy pocket without significant surface damage, the whole thing could just have been sucked down by the explosion under the island.

I also see no reason at all as to why it would need to sink the island in both realities. The way I see it, whatever the bomb did in the off-island time line did not happen in the on-island one, including the sinking of the island.

[Magnum]

Filler, really? People want to go back to the earlier series to remind themselves of what a filler episode is like.

I really liked Sawyer's and Juliette as a couple, so I'm quite happy to see them take a bit of time to show how he's now coping (or not) without her. The scenes in the temple were good, I like how Jack basically forced their hand to in to revealing more than they wanted and it's good to see Claire (MiB) making a return.

Agreed, although the episode suffered from being focused on Kate and not featuring Ben/Locke at all it was not terrible. I think people just expected things to be moving a little faster at this stage, myself included.

I hope these new bunch of people don't continue to get as much screen time as they have so far.

[Comrade]

I think it's more likely that the bomb "going off" (it probably didn't result in a full nuclear explosion - wasn't most of the nuclear material left in the main bomb anyway? At any rate they could say most of the explosion was "absorbed" by the Swan magnetism, or some other sci-fi excuse) indirectly causes the sinking of the Island, but not directly - and with some sort of delay. So either there's some sort of sci-fi reason for it ("The explosion is causing all the energy build up! We have x hours to get off the Island before it sinks!") or some sort of chain-of-events reason (like maybe the business with the bomb convinces the Others that the Island needs to be completely protected from anyone getting to it - so they all use the Donkey Wheel en masse to both escape the Island and teleport it to the ocean floor.) Or something.

At any rate, I'm fairly sure we're going to see some of the Others off the Island in the alternate timeline, especially Ben, Widmore, Eloise Hawking, and therefore Faraday.

[JohnC]

I think it's more likely that the bomb "going off" (it probably didn't result in a full nuclear explosion - wasn't most of the nuclear material left in the main bomb anyway? At any rate they could say most of the explosion was "absorbed" by the Swan magnetism, or some other sci-fi excuse) indirectly causes the sinking of the Island, but not directly - and with some sort of delay.

Yes, this. I may be connected, like it had an effect on some other weird thing which resides there. But there is no way in hell the bomb itself sank the island, especially not with everything left intact.

[Luke]

Yeah, the sinking could possibly have been a delayed thing, in that the blast started to cause an even bigger reaction that sunk the island, but gave people time to evacuate. Personally I doubt it was the others using the wheel idea, just sounds a bit daft to me.

I still think instantaneous sinking is perfectly plausible with still leaving the island in tact. I don't think it happened due to a massive blast causing the island to sink by exploding the rock below the island, or anything, but that the blast combined with the energy pocket would have caused a kind of blast -> flash -> island under water reaction. I do think this could be instantaneous or delayed, but currently it makes more sense to me that the split time would need to be caused by a huge change with instantaneous effect.

[Bad Otter Fingers]

I reckon the island probably submeged itself underwater in order to heal itself. The reason otherville etc looks intact after jughead is because the island has been down there for 30 years recovering / rebuilding itself.

[Pob]

It's probably more complex than just

timeline A -> bomb doesn't go off -> everyone fine

timeline B -> bomb does go off -> island underwater

The above assumes that Faraday's argument about people being 'variables' is correct, which I doubt. He's suggesting that if Jack et al took the bomb to the Swan site and successfully detonated it, that would be a deviation from history.

But everything happens at the Swan site exactly as it should (or, at least, as far as we can tell) - Chang's arm is crushed, Radzinski survives, there is an 'incident', Richard sees the Losties 'die' (i.e disappear).

So the behavior of the Losties at the time of the incident isn't time-changing at all - as far as we can see, they're just playing their role in history.

Which is why I think we're seeing something more complex than a simple Doc Brown branching timeline. I reckon it's more to do with their conciousnesses bleeding into a parallel timeline. Perhaps one of the Losties has a conciousness shift, similar to Desmond's from season 3, which manages to totally change the course of the island's history - something that is nothing to do with the bomb.

[Luke]

My theory is that the bomb goes off (in both realities, as there is only the one reality up to that point), this causes some reaction with the energy pocket, which causes the island to end up under water.

This however causes a paradox, because if they never landed on the island, they wouldn't have gone back, and so wouldn't have detonated the bomb, and so the island wouldn't have sunk.

This paradox causes the fragmentation of time into the two realities (this is possibly just what happens when a paradox is caused, or is maybe the island's way of preventing the end of all reality, or just some kind of self healing feature of the universe). The one reality is where "the incident" was as it always had been, and so cancels out the paradox, and the Losties get reverted back to their natural timeline (not sure why, not really important), the other reality is where "the incident" was changed by the bomb, and caused the island to sink (directly or indirectly).

I do think though there will be the problem that there shouldn't be the two realities, and that something needs to be done to bring the two realities back together, as if they drift too far apart the universe is still doomed. Farraday would seem the obvious one to sort all this out, or at least realise it was happening, however the fact he's dead in one reality, and most likely never born in the other, doesn't help. He had however tested his consciousness time-teleporting device on himself at some point, so this could tie into it somehow, and would also explain his memory being fucked, and why he was so sad about the crash footage. Desmond is obviously also going to be very important to all of this, as he is uniquely immune to the rules of time, and has already had his consciousness detached from it's natural timeline before. Farraday's old girlfriend could also be crucial - this could be why Widmore was paying for her care, and seems a more likely reason than him feeling guilty about what happened.

I do though also like the theory of consciousness seeping between the two timelines, and perhaps the bomb just creating a consciousness gateway between the two timelines; however, I am most in favour of the second timeline having been created as a consequence of the bomb, as this is why Juliet said it did work (because it did work in that reality, it's just the other reality was still needed so as to prevent a paradox).

Personally, I also don't think we will ever be given a full explanation of why the island ended up under water, possibly more will be revealed as to when it happened (if it does turn out it wasn't an immediate thing), but I think it will probably be left as one of the things we just have to accept as happening (you turn the wheel, you end up in Tunisia; you turn the hatch key, your mind gets displaced in time; you detonate a bomb in the Swan energy pocket, the island ends up under water).

[Pob]

Interestingly, I was reading a re-cap of Desmon's first time-slipping episode from the start of season 3, and when he finds himself back on the island, he begs to the heavens to be given another chance to change the past. I think Desmond could have changed the course of history (or created a new reality for himself, or whatever) in that episode, he was just too much of a coward to take the opportunity. Eloise encouraged him to stay on his original "course" as well.

[mercenarri]

It's probably more complex than just

timeline A -> bomb doesn't go off -> everyone fine

timeline B -> bomb does go off -> island underwater

I always thought it more like:

Bomb goes off > Timeline A > Everyone fine

Bomb goes off > Timeline B > Island Underwater

[Goose]

Tonight's episode - just the title and synopsis -

The Substitute - Locke goes in search of help to further his cause

[Luke]

I always thought it more like:

Bomb goes off > Timeline A > Everyone fine

Bomb goes off > Timeline B > Island Underwater

Yeah, that's a shorter way of saying what I was saying.

[makkuwata]

Tonight's episode - just the title and synopsis -

The Substitute - Locke goes in search of help to further his cause

I enjoyed last weeks episode, but that sounds more like it! I wonder if it means Faraday/Desmond will make an appearance...

[glb]

Tonight's episode - just the title and synopsis -

The Substitute - Locke goes in search of help to further his cause

His cause in the flash-sideways? As in finding his suitcase? Woohoo!

Suppose it means he's off to see Jack or Boone, as those are the only two principle characters he spoke to in LA X (or have I forgotten someone?)

[makkuwata]

"Don't miss tonight's episode. A number of things are illuminated."

I guess I'll be attempting to watch a live stream again!

[hereticboy]

His cause in the flash-sideways? As in finding his suitcase? Woohoo!

Suppose it means he's off to see Jack or Boone, as those are the only two principle characters he spoke to in LA X (or have I forgotten someone?)

Or it's 'Locke'. Or both! Epic excitement if it's the latter.

[Nespresso]

I'm confused. When does this air for you Brits? I'm asking because I want to download it as soon as it comes available.

[glb]

Or it's 'Locke'. Or both! Epic excitement if it's the latter.

Oooh, that'd be cool.

Kate is my least-favourite character yet last week was still decent, but to go from one of the blander characters to perhaps the most exciting is a massive plus.

If only Mr Eko would pop up again.

[makkuwata]

I'm confused. When does this air for you Brits? I'm asking because I want to download it as soon as it comes available.

2am GMT. A little under 5 hours from now.

[Nespresso]

2am GMT. A little under 5 hours from now.

So that's 3am GMT+1 for me then. Guess I'll just have to wait until tomorrow. Danke schön.

[makkuwata]

Er, wait. A little under 4 hours. But yeah.

Maybe I should get some sleep

[CGMF]

I can't explain how excited I'd be if/when Mr Eko turns up. I'm avoiding spoiler sites for that very reason. Hopefully it's just a matter of time.

[David78]

I can't explain how excited I'd be if/when Mr Eko turns up. I'm avoiding spoiler sites for that very reason. Hopefully it's just a matter of time.

I vaguely remember reading something about how the actor was a little regretful about leaving. He only really left because he didn't like living on Hawaii, I believe, so it's possible they might have managed to get him back to do a guest spot.

Oh, btw, this airs in half an hour in Canada (early because of the Olympics), so you might be able to catch a live stream at midnight and not stay up so late. Dunno if there will be any, but it wouldn't surprise me.