Lost - The Full Series Thread

[Pob]

Couple of thoughts:

Are we to assume that Jacob's mate/enemy was killed on the island, is therefore trapped in some kind of afterlife form, and is looking for revenge and a way to come back to life? The scene from the beginning of the S5 finale, when he says "do you have any idea how much I want to kill you" - presumably he can't just sneak up on Jacob and bash him with a rock because he's already dead, and is appearing to the alive-and-well Jacob as an apparition, much as dead Jacob appears to Hurley in this week's ep.

If, in the alternative timeline, the island and everything on it has been destroyed, shouldn't Locke have died when his dad pushed him out of the window? Jacob brings him back to life after the fall. Either the nuke doesn't kill Jacob in this timeline (which would be weird seeing he seems to go up in flames readily enough), or the writers want to brush that under the carpet so Locke can continue to be in the show.

[Capwn]

I kinda felt that vibe kicking in at the end of the last season, when Jack and Faraday (miss that guy) decided on the whole nuke the island, I felt gutted, all we'd seen over the past few years would cease to exist. The relationships and evolution of the characters would just go in the blink of an eye. And that's what we're getting with the side flashes. Thankfully we've still got the old Losties too.

Surely it's clear from the opening that this isn't going to be the case. There are two timelines going on.

[squirtle]

Couple of things to throw in the mix.

Why was Desmond on the plane? He wasn't originally, so why was he travelling back from sydney to LA?

The moment where Jack tells Locke that nothing is irreversible seemed significant to me. Like what has now happened can still be undone somehow.

Did we find out who Jacob was referring to with the line, 'They're coming.' Who is coming?

My prediction for the end:

Jack fixes Locke in the alternate timeline. Somehow, fixed Locke gets to the island and kills evil Locke with his lost knives that he finds on the island.

[Pob]

Why was Desmond on the plane? He wasn't originally, so why was he travelling back from sydney to LA?

spoiler]

I guess that's just a coincidence. The point is that he didn't get trapped on the island when he did his round-the-world race, because the island wasn't there.

I'm wondering the bit where Jack says to him "do I know you?" is a fake-out, designed to trick geeks into thinking that the Losties have some kind of perception of things being "not right", Star Trek style. He was probably just referring to their encounter at the stadium, which we see in the first ep of season 2. No reason why that wouldn't have happened in the alternative timeline.

[whizzo]

I guess that's just a coincidence. The point is that he didn't get trapped on the island when he did his round-the-world race, because the island wasn't there.

I'm wondering the bit where Jack says to him "do I know you?" is a fake-out, designed to trick geeks into thinking that the Losties have some kind of perception of things being "not right", Star Trek style. He was probably just referring to their encounter at the stadium, which we see in the first ep of season 2. No reason why that wouldn't have happened in the alternative timeline.

Wasnt that race funded by Widmore? Who would have died when the atom bomb went off

But Yeah I think that bit is just to trick people

[makkuwata]

Hell, Penny may not have even been conceived in the alternate timeline.

1977 is only three years after the actress was born.

[roskelld]

Surely it's clear from the opening that this isn't going to be the case. There are two timelines going on.

Yea there are two timelines going on, but it's going to end with one of them being assimilated into the other or being wiped out.

I suppose it's a human thing to think of, but in the words of Highlander, there can be only one... in the end.

[Pob]

I wonder what that cut on Jack's neck was all about?

[roskelld]

I keep pondering, so many more questions came from that first episode.

The island is underwater, sunken about the time that the Losties were in the Dharma camp, was that the result of the bomb detonating?

If so what happened to all the inhabitants that were on it?

Why was Jack's neck bleeding?

Why weren't Jin and Sun married?

Why was Hurley the face of the Chicken company, when he wasn't really known for owning it previously?

Why was Rose more confident on the plane this time and Jack more nervous?

[rubberducker]

isn't that japanese guy likely to be a "Hanzo"? These others definately seem to be the whispery folk that have been trotting around the island since the start looking a bit like the original crew of the black rock....

as for the alturnative timeline stuff, it is all beginning to feel about consciousness living in multiple universes at the same time, and just not being aware (until someone learns to traverse it), which is kind of what the desmond/faraday stuff was getting at earlier in the series.

[Rudderless]

I'm probably way off with this - these days, I tend to just follow Lost without thinking too deeply about it, as it messes my head up - but...

When Miles relayed Juliet's 'it worked' message to Sawyer, perhaps the 'plane timeline' is how things are going to be when the Losties on the island now do something else. i.e. it's a flash-forward, and dead Juliet, having shuffled off that particular mortal coil, could see that. So they've set up a timeline whereby the Losties land safely in LA and everything is as it should be - they just need to do something to get to that point.

Sort of. I've explained it quite poorly, but that's currently how I see it.

[Goose]

Might be nothing but I was reading a blow by blow of the episode at DarkUFO and someone point out that you only saw Jack's cut in the mirror, they never showed you it actually on Jack, so to speak.

Wacky idea - what if what we saw, the alternate time line, is actually the finale of the show? We assume that it's concurrent with the island timeline but what if it isn't, What if it actually the end of the show and something that takes place in the coming episodes is ACTUALLY responsible for the reboot?

Juliet's near final words were something too - that maybe she and Sawyer should go for a cup of coffee. In the alternate timeline, Juliet would have never have gone to the island so what are the chances of Sawyer meeting up with her via some coincidence? If there's one thing we know, most the cats seem to have crossed paths before.

Anyone notice too, that in the alternate timeline, Desmond was still wearing a wedding ring? Given in the alternate timeline the island was destroyed (sunken??) then Penny would not have been concieved. Maybe Desmond isn't from the alternate timeline at all, but the one we know and love, and has been reinserted into that locale for some reason or another.

And how come neither recognised the other? They'd met at the stadium....but then given that in the alternate timeline the island sank, Desmond would never have had to train for the round the world trip and never gone to the island.

One double episode in and the show has already got me again.

[Popo]

isn't that japanese guy likely to be a "Hanzo"? These others definately seem to be the whispery folk that have been trotting around the island since the start looking a bit like the original crew of the black rock....

Shit, I never thought about that but Hanzo is indeed a Japanese name...

Just to be sure, spoiler tags go off at 8pm GMT on Thursday night, correct?

[Pob]

I keep pondering, so many more questions came from that first episode.

The island is underwater, sunken about the time that the Losties were in the Dharma camp, was that the result of the bomb detonating?

If so what happened to all the inhabitants that were on it?

Why was Jack's neck bleeding?

Why weren't Jin and Sun married?

Why was Hurley the face of the Chicken company, when he wasn't really known for owning it previously?

Why was Rose more confident on the plane this time and Jack more nervous?

I know, it's brilliant isn't it! I guess we'll see all that stuff explained as a kind of butterfly effect eminating from the destruction of the island in 1977, and everyone on it.

Hurley would never have heard the numbers because the dude in the asylum wouldn't have encountered the island (that happened after 1977 didn't it?). So Hurley just wins the lottery by luck without the associated curse.

Widmore, Ben and Eloise are dead, meaning Des probably has a pretty good life. As long as Penny was still concieved.

Faraday would never have been born.

Not sure about Jin and Sun. The Lostpedia page on this is interesting - we don't know whether Sun can speak English in this timeline. Jin seems like even more of a dick than before, though, so I don't know why she wouldn't be planning her escape/affair.

I can't explain why Rose and Jack switch places on the "fear of flying" thing, Jack's bleeding neck or why Charlie seems to have a death-wish.

[squirtle]

Shit, I never thought about that but Hanzo is indeed a Japanese name...

Just to be sure, spoiler tags go off at 8pm GMT on Thursday night, correct?

8pm Wednesday night, the day after it airs in the States.

[Pob]

Wacky idea - what if what we saw, the alternate time line, is actually the finale of the show? We assume that it's concurrent with the island timeline but what if it isn't, What if it actually the end of the show and something that takes place in the coming episodes is ACTUALLY responsible for the reboot?

I can't believe that the show would end up with the whole island timeline being erased. It's too much audience investement to wipe out - too much like Dallas. If anything, we'll probably see it the other way around - the alternative timeline will be 'ended' somehow, as everyone realises how awesome their time on the island was (Demond might have something to say about that).

Juliet's near final words were something too - that maybe she and Sawyer should go for a cup of coffee. In the alternate timeline, Juliet would have never have gone to the island so what are the chances of Sawyer meeting up with her via some coincidence? If there's one thing we know, most the cats seem to have crossed paths before.

Yes, this reminded me of Charlotte's final words, which seemed to be a result of her conciousness travelling back in time, in itself caused by the island time-shifting. Perhaps the same thing was happening to Juliet? She's been on the island for longer than the Losties, so the final time jump might have triggered that same effect, before killing her.

Perhaps the 'conciousness shifting' that we see most clearly in Desmond's episodes is actually crossing into alternative realities, rather than just moving back and forth on a single timeline? Desmond's episodes certainly hint at that. The little things Desmond changes in the past (Charlie busking in Covent Garden) don't seem to have an effect on the 'real' timeline. Basically, what rubberducker says.

[Goose]

I can't explain why Rose and Jack switch places on the "fear of flying" thing, Jack's bleeding neck or why Charlie seems to have a death-wish.

I think Charie is destined to die young regardless of what timeline they're in. Desmond saved him a few times from certain death and Jack too, saved him when he'd been hung by Ethan, having to do CPR to bring him back. Hell, maybe Jack saving Charlie in the alternate timeline is going to come back and bite him (or them all) on the arse when Charlie does something that ends up putting them back on the island or something equally disastrous.

[Goose]

Other things - if it did work and the atom bomb blew, why wasn't everyone killed? Hell, Juliet was right next to it and the majority of her injuries seemed to come more from falling down the pit in the first place than the actual bomb. Even if the bomb was of limited strength, she was still sitting right next to the motherfucker when it went off. Given the damage done, I'd say she was dead.

But how about if she was dead in that initial blast/damage from falling steelwork - It was daytime when the bomb went off yet the middle of the night when they all woke up (what the hell was Kate doing up that tree?). What if her concious mind travelled back to her body from another reality/timeline so she could say goodbye to Sawyer and to tell him they should meet for coffee?

I'm not quite buying the fact that all that stuff happened to her, that she not only didn't die but also stayed alive long enough to talk to Sawyer.

You know what, Kate being up that tree feels more like a re-insertion similar to how they all suddenly ended up back on the island when the other plane crashed than being a result of the bomb blast.

Fuck, what if the alternate reality did work, for a short time, then suddenly they're thrust back onto the island a couple of hours after the bomb went off. So the alternate reality took place while they were still shellshocked and sleeping off the effects of the bomb blast. That could be what Juliet meant when she said it had worked. I need my wife to watch it, she'd figure it out.

[Pob]

Other things - if it did work and the atom bomb blew, why wasn't everyone killed? Hell, Juliet was right next to it and the majority of her injuries seemed to come more from falling down the pit in the first place than the actual bomb. Even if the bomb was of limited strength, she was still sitting right next to the motherfucker when it went off. Given the damage done, I'd say she was dead.

Seems they got punted forward through time momentarily before the bomb went off. Obviously the bomb had disasterous effects on the island as a whole, so there's no way they would have survived the blast if they'd stuck around.

On the Desmond being married thing - doesn't Eloise put Des off proposing to Penny by telling him not to buy an engagement ring? If Eloise is killed in 1977, she won't be around to do that. So, if Penny is alive, Des probably just popped the question without all that round-the-world race nonsense. Especially as he doesn't have to impress Daddy Widmore (who is also dead).

[whizzo]

Jin and Sun arent Married?

[makkuwata]

The whole day to night thing with Kate being stuck up a tree was just a result of the time-travel back to the present. And them looking for a cool establishing shot.

[Goose]

The whole day to night thing with Kate being stuck up a tree was just a result of the time-travel back to the present. And them looking for a cool establishing shot.

Bugger, that sound right and logical.

[Teeohbee.]

Where did the Dharma Inititive supply drops come from?

[whizzo]

Where did the Dharma Inititive supply drops come from?

WHAT!! All the questions from yesterday and your trying to confuse us with stuff from 4 years ago?

[roskelld]

Jin and Sun arent Married?

No wedding ring and they call Sun, Ms. Pak (Maiden name).

The only thing I can read into that off the top of my head is that Jacob was at their wedding, so if he's dead then maybe the wedding didn't happen?

Dunno my poor brain hurts.

[Nespresso]

Hm I don't know about Smokey being the Man in black. That would mean that in the past when Ben 'summoned' him he was under his control and up to that point had always been. So either there are two smokeys or the one Ben summoned is the one and the same all along and uh... yeah.

[Tom*]

I thought the bomb, like, got absorbed by the energy pocket or something, so it didn't actually cause damage to the island. But then the alt-Island is underwater. Hmmm.

They were sent forward to 2007 without being really hurt - just side effects and passed out a bit.

[Pob]

The only thing I can read into that off the top of my head is that Jacob was at their wedding, so if he's dead then maybe the wedding didn't happen?

If Jacob's dead, then Locke should be dead too, seeing as Jacob appeared to bring him back to life after he fell out of that window.

Hm I don't know about Smokey being the Man in black. That would mean that in the past when Ben 'summoned' him he was under his control and up to that point had always been. So either there are two smokeys or the one Ben summoned is the one and the same all along and uh... yeah.

Perhaps Smokey needed to create some kind of affiliation with Ben, seeing as Ben is a key part of his plan to kill Jacob. By making Ben think that he could "summon" Smokey, perhaps that made Ben more susceptible to the suggestion that he should do everything Evil Locke tells him to do (Smokey commands Ben to do this whilst posing as Alex).

[peeveen]

Wacky idea - what if what we saw, the alternate time line, is actually the finale of the show? We assume that it's concurrent with the island timeline but what if it isn't, What if it actually the end of the show and something that takes place in the coming episodes is ACTUALLY responsible for the reboot?

I had a similar thought, but in reverse. What if the bomb idea worked (like Juliette said), but something happens in the alternative reality storyline (where the plane never crashes) that causes them to "undo the undo" again?

Probably nonsense, but so is all the other theorising .. fun, tho!

Hm I don't know about Smokey being the Man in black. That would mean that in the past when Ben 'summoned' him he was under his control and up to that point had always been. So either there are two smokeys or the one Ben summoned is the one and the same all along and uh... yeah.

Perhaps Jacob could also have assumed smoke form? Maybe that was him.

[roskelld]

Hm I don't know about Smokey being the Man in black. That would mean that in the past when Ben 'summoned' him he was under his control and up to that point had always been. So either there are two smokeys or the one Ben summoned is the one and the same all along and uh... yeah.

I think there's always been two smokies, Jacob and The man in black.

Hense why sometimes it does no damage and others it's a bit of an evil fuck.

If Jacob's dead, then Locke should be dead too, seeing as Jacob appeared to bring him back to life after he fell out of that window.

I suppose it depends how far back events go. Maybe Locke never met his dad. But he is in a wheel chair... gahhhh. I dunno.