Lost - The Full Series Thread

[Tetchy]

I was all set for this to be an amazing finale but I'm actually a bit miffed as basically it's turned out that all the survivors that we've so far invested 5 years becoming attached to are just pawns in some big game between good and evil. I foresee a religiously overt cataclysmic clusterfuck of a series ending ala BSG next year

I don't think Juliette's sacrifice will have worked.Could the electro magnet pocket with Juliette and the bomb actually be a temporal loop and Juliette appears every 108 minutes and detonates the bomb, which is why there is a massive build-up of potentially destructive energies? Did anyone ever decipher the hieroglyphs that appeared when Desmond didn't push the button?

[Venice Cull]

Anyway, don't assume the bomb went off. All that happened was that the screen turned white and the music reached a crescendo. It doesn't mean she managed to set it off.

Of course the bomb went off! The series finale wasn't just a broken women hitting a broken bomb with a rock. Blimey.

There was a massive FLASH man. The bomb went off. There was even an explosion noise.

Indisputable FACT my friend. Indisputable fact.

[Droo]

Surely, that cant have been the black rock at the start? because the statue is still standing - in which case you would see where it had fallen by today - as surely the blak rock couldnt have been all that long ago?

also, Richard was on the Black Rock maybe?

[squirtle]

Of course the bomb went off! The series finale wasn't just a broken women hitting a broken bomb with a rock. Blimey.

There was a massive FLASH man. The bomb went off.

Indisputable FACT my friend. Indisputable fact.

Ok, think on this. If the bomb went off, a hydrogen bomb with a vent outwards and upwards, where was Richard to see Jack and all that lot die? Richard said that he saw them all die. But he wasn't there. No way they would have survived the blast being right on top of it. No way would there have been anything to build the swan on top of. The only way it could have gone off is if the electromagnetism held the blast in check and that was the purpose of the 108 minutes, to vent the power of the explosion. Which is possible, but odd.

Surely, that cant have been the black rock at the start? because the statue is still standing - in which case you would see where it had fallen by today - as surely the blak rock couldnt have been all that long ago?

also, Richard was on the Black Rock maybe?

Had to have been the black rock. Probably, anyway. I'm not sure for how long that kind of big ship was being sailed round the world, but it had to have been in the last few hundred years at the most.

[Venice Cull]

Ok, think on this. If the bomb went off....

The bomb DID go off! Go and watch the last few seconds again. Regarding the other stuff - irrelevant - I doubt they'd decided the ending when they wrote those episodes.

I very, VERY much doubt the next series will start with a "Ha! You thought it was the bomb going off, but it was really just a fade to white to show the Lost logo reversed out". No sir.

Go watch the end again, and come back with an apology note.

I'll be here waiting!

[therearerules]

Yeah but when the hydrogen bomb goes off anything can happen. Maybe they all go back in time, or a little bit ahead in time, or something. Loved the episode, even if it's now completely pointless wondering things.

[peeveen]

I'm guessing that the "loophole" is that Jacob's enemy can't kill him directly, he has to get someone to do it of their own free will (Ben). Jacob represents life/choice/evolution, and his "enemy" being death/predeterminism/stagnancy, hence why Jacob is happy for the Black Rock to find the island, and the other fella ain't.

Roll on season six then.

[Anne Summers]

Ok, think on this. If the bomb went off, a hydrogen bomb with a vent outwards and upwards, where was Richard to see Jack and all that lot die? Richard said that he saw them all die. But he wasn't there. No way they would have survived the blast being right on top of it. No way would there have been anything to build the swan on top of. The only way it could have gone off is if the electromagnetism held the blast in check and that was the purpose of the 108 minutes, to vent the power of the explosion. Which is possible, but odd.

But it wasn't a full-on hydrogen bomb explosion was it? It was just the core that exploded - Sayid took the core out of the bomb at the beginning of the episode, using Farraday's instructions. Right? He said it would still cause a "thermo-nuclear" detonation.

If I remember right about hydrogen bombs, they are basically just lots of smaller nuclear bombs wrapped around a "detonator" - a reactor that reaches critical mass and then sets off a lot of other critical masses. Jack just threw the detonator down the hole, so if it's deep enough it they would probably survive. The explosion would have about the same power as a regular nuke, rather than a hydrogen bomb (which would evaporate a huge crater). Based on the underground detonation of a "conventional" (i.e non-hydrogen) nuke in Broken Arrow, it will just cause a big earthquake.

[squirtle]

I have just watched the end again. Like I said, it goes white and the music crescendos. There is no boom. No explosion. No aftermath. All I'm saying is don't assume it went off. Yes, it looks like it did, but then... what. You can't change what happened. They can't change the future. They can't land in LA because they never would have been on the island to set the bomb off to stop the incident. What happened happened. If she did set the bomb off, where did the blast go? I don't think you can really just write off the other stuff when the other stuff was the hatch and the entirety of season 2 and also mentioned in this episode with Locke pointing out the hatch door to Ben. So where did the blast energy go?

[squirtle]

But it wasn't a full-on hydrogen bomb explosion was it? It was just the core that exploded - Sayid took the core out of the bomb at the beginning of the episode, using Farraday's instructions. Right? He said it would still cause a "thermo-nuclear" detonation.

If I remember right about hydrogen bombs, they are basically just lots of smaller nuclear bombs wrapped around a "detonator" - a reactor that reaches critical mass and then sets off a lot of other critical masses. Jack just threw the detonator down the hole, so if it's deep enough it they would probably survive. The explosion would have about the same power as a regular nuke, rather than a hydrogen bomb (which would evaporate a huge crater). I'm basing that theory on the underground detonation in Broken Arrow, though, which just basically caused a big earthquake. so it might not be a very scientific estimate.

It would have still have caused too much damage for them to build the Swan station there.

[Janson]

It doesn't matter if the bomb went off or not, whatever happened happened...so the incident always happened because of the bomb going off, or not going off! I reckon they're going back to 2007 to fight Locke..I'm so gutted the good Locke is gone

[Anne Summers]

It would have still have caused too much damage for them to build the Swan station there.

I don't know about that. Depends how deep that shaft was I guess. Did they say? Some shots made it look REALLY deep, but when we saw Juliet at the bottom, it almost looked like she was lit quite well by the natural light from above. So I don't think we can really tell. She could have been 50 feet down or a mile. Or did I miss a clue about that?

Interesting to think about who it was that convinced each of those who returned to the island to come back. Did Jacob convince all of the guys who are on the bombing mission in the 70s? Presumably then, setting off the bomb is part of his plan.

[squirtle]

Here's a thought. What if the good Locke has been gone since the first encounter with Smokey way back in Season 1. Smokey hid the body and waited for all this to come to pass.

[Kramer]

I thought it was a brilliant episode - not up there with the ending to Season 4, but great nonetheless.

The bomb definitely went off.

In a way, the most significant part of the episode was the WHITE '*BOOM* LOST'.

[hoot]

I'm guessing that the "loophole" is that Jacob's enemy can't kill him directly, he has to get someone to do it of their own free will (Ben). Jacob represents life/choice/evolution, and his "enemy" being death/predeterminism/stagnancy, hence why Jacob is happy for the Black Rock to find the island, and the other fella ain't.

Roll on season six then.

I like that.

[Straps]

Just thinking about it, the first and last scenes of this episode are probably the two most important from the show's history so far. It essentially confirmed what they've hinted at throughout but has always been slightly in doubt - that absolutely everything that had happened to everyone we've seen, has been manipulated and controlled by these guys. There's been a lot of indication that that's what the case always was, but it's good to see it all traced back to the beginning. Wouldn't be awesome if everything had happened because these two chancers shipwrecked on the island, used its properties to become demi-gods, but then Jacob didn't return Smokey's fishing rod one day or something so he spent the next 200 years working out how to kill him.

Still so many questions. Only 9 months to wait.

[Venice Cull]

I have just watched the end again. Like I said, it goes white and the music crescendos. There is no boom. No explosion.

Except the boom and the explosion noise, of course.

I think your download is gimped.

So (and I'm addressing everyone here) - I don't want to hear anymore talk about the bomb not going off. Rest assured that if anyone questions whether it went off or not there will be very serious repercussions.

[Anne Summers]

Here's a thought. What if the good Locke has been gone since the first encounter with Smokey way back in Season 1. Smokey hid the body and waited for all this to come to pass.

One of the theories I just read on Lostpedia says that Smokey and Jacob both have human forms, and can also take smoke forms, or control their own smoke monsters. That's why Locke said the one he saw was "beautiful" when he "looked into the eye of the island" and all that stuff. We have seen white wisps of smoke and black wisps of smoke, its always black smoke when it attacks and kills people though.

[Fireproofradiator]

I was all set for this to be an amazing finale but I'm actually a bit miffed as basically it's turned out that all the survivors that we've so far invested 5 years becoming attached to are just pawns in some big game between good and evil. I foresee a religiously overt cataclysmic clusterfuck of a series ending ala BSG next year

Man I hope not. I hope that the pawns - characters like Ben and Sawyer and Jack wind up giving these demigod lot a good kicking. Toying with people in their games of cosmic chess - what a pair of bastards.

Course once that's all done they can return to the show in a couple of years and sort out what the hell is going on with Walt...

[Pob]

Wouldn't be awesome if everything had happened because these two chancers shipwrecked on the island, used its properties to become demi-gods, but then Jacob didn't return Smokey's fishing rod one day or something so he spent the next 200 years working out how to kill him.

[zxcvbnm]

That was a fantastic episode....of course the bomb went off, as Jacob meant it too. So what does this mean for Jacob now? I bet his physical form is just for show and he's not really dead (just reverted back to "good" smokie).

So Illyana (or however it's spelt) and co. are on the side of Jacob - but from when in time? Have there been any clues as to their origins, apart from that clip in the hospital? And was that Russian they were speaking?

Oh, and I was surprised not to see Desmond make an appearance.

[Pob]

So what are Jacob and Smokey's motives? Jacob brings 'candidates' to the island, trying to prove to Smokey that there are some decent people out there and create some kind idyllic community? Smokey thinks people are twats, judges them and kills the ones he doesn't like?

So the third 'faction' is actually Jacob's people - Ilana and Bram. Are they Others-to-be? And where does this leave the Charles/Ben tussle? The Others are Jacob's people, but Ben has now sided with evil smokey. Maybe the last season will deal with someone becoming a replacement for Jacob, someone to be 'white'. Jack, I'd guess.

The biggest shock of this season is that Locke is actually dead, strangled by Ben. When we saw him in the coffin at the end of season 4, everyone thought "yeah right". Poor guy was just a pawn all his life.

Has Jacob ever actually been in Lost before this episode, or were all the appearances tricks by smokey? His "help me" to Locke, for example?

[Kramer]

I've hated Juliet since she was first in it. I have an irrational hatred for her, in the same way I do for Arsenal.

So, while everyone else will have been sad at the emotional death sequence - I was like YEAH!HIGHFIVESGUYS!

If, for some reason, she's in it next season - I'm gonna have to go back to cheering/jeering Kate into shooting her in the face.

HATE Juliet, more than I hate Radzinski.

[zxcvbnm]

Has anyone gone back to the old episodes to see if Jacob was in the shots we saw?

[hereticboy]

Which shots we saw?

[Kramer]

Has anyone gone back to the old episodes to see if Jacob was in the shots we saw?

We only saw Locke's fall previously. Jacob's meetings with Kate, Jack, Sayid Jin & Sun and Hurley (especially Hurley) were new reveals.

[Chaz]

When the reveresed-out logo appeared at the end, it made me wonder whether they did in fact change the timeline, and that next season will really change shit up by featuring a parallel universe that was created as a result, or something. Seems a bit unlikely though, not sure how the present-day island stuff (or any island stuff) would fit into that.

Anyway epic finale, in classic Lost style, confirming a lot of rumours and clearling a fair few small things up, it also provided a load more questions as to what is going on, and what everyone's motives are. I think Locke is definitely smokey (the bad one) now though, there's just no other plausible explanation really. I like the idea that he was taken in Season 1 - after all, I always thought he was different after that first series, and since then he had seemed a lot more 'evil'/mysterious - what with blowing up the sub, etc, other things I can't really remember - would be cool if we found out he was stringing people along all this time, using his omnipotence and biding his time and eventually finding a way to get to Jacob.

Whoever came up with that "Hurley being important" theory is also looking like they were bang on the money, what with Jacob telling him he's special, or gifted. Assuming he wasn't just saying this to get him to return to the island, of course.

[angel]

so adam and eve must be

jacob and his nemesis

[Comrade]

It seems to me to be pretty obvious what's happened with the bomb: as Miles said, it triggered "the incident". Basically because other options don't work:

1) The time-reset thing happens. If this is the case than none of the present day stuff with Locke (and "Locke") even happened. Or even should have happened - the timeline will ahve been changed 30 years previous. Also, I think if they had gone down this path I guarantee they would have ended the episode with them all landing at LAX for the biggest WTF in history.

2) The bomb exploded with its full impact. Well, since this is an alternative to them changing the timeline, this obviously hasn't happened. The bomb would have killed a fairly large chun of the island's population, including the fairly nearby Radzinsy and Chang, who we know both survive as they are in the Swan and its orientation film respectively.

So the only other alternative is that the bomb caused the incident, and I bet a good amount of sweet cash that the very same incident has propelled the gang 30 years or so into the future (incidentally leaving Rose and Bernard - and Vincent - in the seventies where they become Adam and Eve, maybe at the time of the Dharma purge).

[PK]

I don't think Juliette's sacrifice will have worked.Could the electro magnet pocket with Juliette and the bomb actually be a temporal loop and Juliette appears every 108 minutes and detonates the bomb, which is why there is a massive build-up of potentially destructive energies?

That's a superb idea

Am I right in thinking that the loophole is 'Only the leader can kill Jacob'?

Ben is still the leader, isn't he? Evil Locke was only the "leader" because he told Richard that one day he would be - Richard said himself that Real Locke never seemed all that special whenever he visited him - whereas Ben was ordained by Jacob, wasn't he?