Lost - The Full Series Thread

[Graham S]

the absolutely shit CGI sub(!)

It was done by the same people who do the ferry in Balamory.

[Sirloin]

I bet it ends up with Jack detonating the bomb, as we know the others can't as they are alive later in the timeline, he gets vapourised, and becomes Jacob. That's why he takes Claire and his dad, as they are family to him. Locke goes to kill him as he is responsible for killing some of the others. Or something.

[Graham S]

I thought that Jacob was

Locke

: didn't we see that briefly at some point: I recall pausing the video to have a good look.

Have the writers ever discussed why there's so much beating and torture in Lost? Is it just a 24 / Guantanamo sign of the times, or is there something more?

[peeveen]

I reckon it's pretty certain that the bomb won't go off, at least not in the intended way. Jack hopes that by obliterating everything, it'll ensure that their plane never crashes, but then he wouldn't have met Faraday, who is the one who suggests the bomb idea to Jack in the first place, so Jack would never have done it, etc. I'm sure the bomb will play some part in the "incident", probably a direct cause, but some mysterious force (the island, or whatever) will prevent it actually having the intended destructive outcome, in the same way that Michael was unable to kill himself with a loaded gun. I still reckon that everything will play out exactly as it is was supposed to, from the point of view of the 200x timeline.

[Goose]

Don't forget we have those cats on the other island with weaponry that 'magically' turned up. We know that they go to the main island because we'd previously seen the boats on the beach. Are we looking at some major battle ensuing? Widmore Vs Others Vs Dharma!

Thinking back to the ep, when Sawyer etc took that boat and then were chased by an unknown crew in another boat. They shot at Sawyer and team who shot back and injured/killed someone. I hope they didn't miss the gun man and potentially hit the awesome Lapides.

I don't think the bomb is going off, but I think the incident is going to take place. Is the island going to become practically inhabitalable? Remember the whole 120 minutes hatch thing, with them going outside into the quarantine area? Or was the quarantine all bullshit just to keep Rudzinski out of the picture.

What WAS that stuff they were injecting? Anti-radiation sickness stuff?

What kind of damage would a H-bomb do anyway? I kind of think we'd have noticed damage on the island if it had gone off and seeing as we know what happened happened then surely it can't go off?

Hmmm.

[Rudi von Starnberg]

Perhaps what happened happened, but that this is somehow the parallel universe theory of time travel. That every change results in a new, parallel timeline.

Thus the time-jumping folks won't be subjected to paradoxes if the island blows up, because they did all their shit in universes where it didn't blow up and so on. The mechanism for it blowing up is still there, just not in this universe.

Gah, time travel always hurts my head.

[Pob]

Perhaps what happened happened, but that this is somehow the parallel universe theory of time travel. That every change results in a new, parallel timeline.

Thus the time-jumping folks won't be subjected to paradoxes if the island blows up, because they did all their shit in universes where it didn't blow up and so on. The mechanism for it blowing up is still there, just not in this universe.

Gah, time travel always hurts my head.

What we've seen in 2007 negates that theory - Sun has the photo of the 1977 Dharma arrivals, complete with Hurley, Jack et al. This means that anything done in 1977 can affect what we see in 2007. So if Jack does blow the whole place up, the 2007 island that we are watching will be gone.

It's all one timeline.

[Anne Summers]

What kind of damage would a H-bomb do anyway? I kind of think we'd have noticed damage on the island if it had gone off and seeing as we know what happened happened then surely it can't go off?

Hmmm.

I'm starting to get the impression that maybe the swan terminal/failsafe/numbers thing is something to do with the h-bomb explosion. Like, in the "true" timeline the island destined to have been blown up by an H-bomb in the 70s, but by entering the numbers and pressing the button, that destiny is somehow averted,or postponed, to allow Dharma to continue their work. So when the numbers don't get entered, the release of energy somehow causes the island to revert to its true timeline - where it gets blown out of existance (hence the sky turning purple, earth shaking etc). Its a bit of a shaky theory but I think it might be on the right lines. However this made a bit more sense to me when I thought (along with everyone else) that the bomb was buried behind the concrete at the Swan. The fact that we found out its under the village throws me a bit - unless it is going to be moved?

[zxcvbnm]

I've got it! (not tramp aids). The other people on the other Island are the children of the original Dharma people here to kick some 'others' arse all over the Island.

Slight plot hole - why didn't they recognise Ben.......I'll make up a convenient reason using time travel later on.

And the reason women can't give Birth? I reckon the combination of the h-bomb and energy is what makes the island go all slow-mo time wise, thus women are carrying their babies for too long (or short) and that's why they're dying. Or something like that. I'll make up a convenient reason using time travel later on.

OR...the whole reason for inputting the code is to stop the h-bomb from detonating. When the code wasn't put in, and there was the weird explosion that was the combination of the energy and the h-bomb.

[zxcvbnm]

What we've seen in 2007 negates that theory - Sun has the photo of the 1977 Dharma arrivals, complete with Hurley, Jack et al. This means that anything done in 1977 can affect what we see in 2007. So if Jack does blow the whole place up, the 2007 island that we are watching will be gone.

It's all one timeline.

If the h-bomb was never detonated, then no matter what Jack does, it will never go off.

[oli]

I've got it! (not tramp aids). The other people on the other Island are the children of the original Dharma people here to kick some 'others' arse all over the Island.

Slight plot hole - why didn't they recognise Ben.......I'll make up a convenient reason using time travel later on.

I still think they're there working for Ben, but they don't really know it - I thought his reaction to Miles mentioning 3.2 million a while back, and then miles asking for 3.2 million in the van confirmed that?

[luckypierre]

The H bomb is the incident. Just like when Faraday thinks he's going to change things he ends up doing what he always did, get shot by Mom. Normal time travel type story line, the one thing they set out to stop is the very thing they cause to happen.

[squirtle]

I think pierre is almost there. It will happen. Jack will not set off the bomb. However, Radzinski and the Dharma lot will cause the incident just as Jack is about to set off the bomb and it will fling him and the other losties back to their own time.

I now believe that the third party is a consortium of a very rich Sawyer, Kate and Juliet who have been living off the island for 30 years.

[JohnC]

How much detestation would that H bomb cause and how much would be visible after 30 years? I can't remember, but have we seen anything before that could have been caused by it exploding 30 years in the past? Or would nature have basically covered everything up again by then?

[zxcvbnm]

If the h-bomb went off underground, there wouldn't be too much visible damage would there? Well, depending how deep down it was. The hatch was pretty deep down after all.

And I like the idea of Sawyer & co. becoming another faction with an interest in the island.

[Pob]

It would definitely be cool to see someone trapped in 1977, and then re-appear in 2007 thirty years older. You know that if that happened to Sawyer, though, he'd just blunder into his own life and try and stop himself going to prison or something. Which didn't happen, obviously.

I'm still hoping an old-age Chang will make an appearance.

[zxcvbnm]

Is my mind playing tricks on me, or quite a few episodes ago (maybe a couple of seasons even) didn't Ben refer to "the elders" at the temple? If so...that's your oceanics right there!

[Kramer]

I thought that Jacob was

Locke

: didn't we see that briefly at some point: I recall pausing the video to have a good look.

No, we've seen Jacob twice - once when he said "Help me" to Locke, when Ben was there too. That was a brief moment and it was one of the props guys playing him:

We also saw his eye a couple of times, but that was all.

I think it will be Jack, ultimately.

[Anne Summers]

OR...the whole reason for inputting the code is to stop the h-bomb from detonating. When the code wasn't put in, and there was the weird explosion that was the combination of the energy and the h-bomb.

That's kind of what I'm getting at - when they forget the code, the island timeline "course corrects" to the time when the bomb detonates - the detonation is somehow sealed away in an alternate timeline, and kept there by entering the numbers in the Swan, to prevent the build-up of energy.

[Stig]

Awww I was throw it out there than Chang was Jacob untill you posted those pictures

[A.C.R.O.N.Y.M]

The entire season has been split between the events in the past and the events in 2007. The vast majority of the story has been set in the time of the Dharma Initiative, however, which suggests that the events in 2007 are mostly setting up the situation for the sixth and final season. With all the foreshadowing of a final conflict over custody of the island coming in the final season, it seems reasonable to assume that Daniel's recent theory was wrong and Jack's plan will fail.

Jack is currently on an interesting journey, one that roughly parallels Locke's journey towards the end of the second season. Jack is trying to find meaning in everything that has happened, because it has defied his season of rational order. Because it appears that Locke was right about his own destiny, Jack has come to the conclusion that they all have a destiny to fulfill, and he's trying to find one that can restore his former certainty.

The irony is that Jack, like Locke before him, is not truly changing. Just as Locke was still hung up on his own expectations of destiny and self-importance, haunted by the past, when he tried to take control of event in the Swan Station at the end of the second season, Jack is only changing the manner in which he tries to take control over a situation. He talks about destiny, but he's more interested in denying the last three years of his life than learning from them. In terms of the redemptive theme of the series, Jack still hasn't made the turn.

With regards to the rest of the Oceanic Tribe, the situation at the Dharma Initiative is rapidly spiraling out of control. It's a bit surprising that it took so long for someone to use Juliet against Sawyer, once it was clear he wouldn't talk. It's one of those standard interrogation techniques (hurt a loved one to convince someone with a stiff upper lip to talk), and Horace wasn't above questionable methods with Sayid. It's also surprising that they agreed to let Sawyer and Juliet leave on the sub, and didn't bring up the fact that Sawyer, Juliet, and the rest of their friends just showed up one day, three years earlier!

Similarly, Pierre Chang's decision to believe Daniel's story was a little convenient, since there was nothing concrete to base that decision on. Questioning Hurley was a smart move, and one of the more amusing moments of the episode, but it still seemed a bit too smooth a process. That said, it does close the loop on the question of when Miles and Charlotte left the island. It's not entirely clear how Kate convinced Radzinsky or Horace to put her on the sub as well, or why Miles, Jin, and Hurley didn't attempt the same, but there wasn't necessarily time to cover those details.

It's good to see more of the tunnels under the island, dating back to ancient times. One might assume that this is how Cerberus gets around, since it's source is also underground. Richard specifically mentions that there is a way to get Jughead out of the tunnels, but it's not the way they came. It could be that they don't get the bomb anywhere near the site of the Swan Station, and instead, at the time of "the incident", it is closer to a portion of the tunnels close to where the statue once stood. That could, in turn, link to Ilana and Bram's gambit in 2007. (Radzinsky's decision not to take the warnings seriously could, in turn, explain why he chose to man the Swan Station for so long, and what ultimately drove him to suicide.)

The events in 2007 hint at some possibilities for the direction of the sixth season. Clearly, Locke's attempt to find Jacob and kill him is a big deal. This seems like it comes out of left field, but that's not necessarily the case. In "The Man Behind the Curtain", in the third season, Jacob specifically asks John to "help him". One possible implication is that Jacob serves the will of the island, but no longer willingly. He may do what is necessary for the good of the island, but he may have been doing so for so long that dying and passing that mantle to Locke may be his personal design.

The fact that Ben never actually spoke to Jacob is therefore an important clue. Ben was never supposed to be the leader of the Others; he took on that mantle because Locke wasn't ready. The island chose Locke, by whatever means it might do so. It's a fair bet that Charles Widmore never spoke to Jacob either, leaving only Richard as someone who has supposedly talked to Jacob or knows Jacob.

The devotion to Jacob, then, is akin to devotion to a legend. It touches on the various "Wizard of Oz" references associated with the Others. What if there is no Jacob? Or, rather, Jacob is not what he appears to be? The ship in a bottle at the beginning of the episode seems like an intentional reference to the Black Rock. Could Jacob and Richard have arrived on the island on the Black Rock, with Jacob chosen by the island at that time to "interface" with whatever was already there, dating back to ancient times?

After all, the Others all seem to come from a roughly modern time, which implies that they were absorbed into an existing population. That's not a new observation, but it's been an open question of when the "original" population arrived. It could have been the Black Rock (which would, in turn, provide a connection to Hanso and the Dharma Initiative), and then a series of subsequent arrivals of smaller populations. After all, there's no indication that people didn't come across the island between the late 1800s and 1954.

Touching back on some early theories (from the reviews for the first season episodes), the island may be inhabited by a non-corporeal entity, and that entity may be acting through Jacob. It may only be able to act through the bodies of the dead. If Jacob died when the Black Rock came to ground on the island, and then was resurrected by some ancient consciousness that is "the island", that could explain why he is so revered. Since Cerberus is already something of a non-corporeal entity, it's not completely off the beaten path. That would explain the "modern" look of the Others, while still preserving the implied ties to the ancient past.

It may even explain why Richard is worried about Locke's intentions. Richard may not be the leader, but he certainly holds power as one who does appear to know Jacob very well. Richard may not have understood that he was helping to choose Jacob's replacement, and he may be devoted to maintaining the status quo.

The wild card at the moment is Ilana. Ilana is very likely looking to retrieve Jughead. One possibility, already noted, is that she is working with Eloise Hawking. However, it may not be a matter of controlling the island; instead, based on recent revelations, it may be connected to Hawking's understanding of space/time and her desire to ensure that events unfold in past, present, and future as they must. Ilana's activities might factor into the return of the Oceanic Tribe to 2007.

Alternatively, Ilana's team might be connected to Richard. As it stands right now, beyond Jack and Sayid, he would be the only other person to know Jughead's location at the time of "the incident". Considering that Ben and Locke were gone, and Richard never expected to see either of them again, he could have wanted to take custody of Jughead to bolster his own control over the fate of the island from threats like Widmore.

[Barnard]

I found it quite jarring that Kate could be so dismissive towards Jack. Kate used to annoy me loads in the first series with her 'kate knows best attitude' and for pretty much the whole of this series so far she had been fairly quiet but now she seems to be back to being a spanner in everyone elses plans.

I've enjoyed this season so much that the year long wait until season 6 is going to hurt!

[Chaz]

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the show ended as it had begun, with Jack opening his eyes on the beach....btw, did we ever figure out why his body was so far from the plane??

I think this will, and needs to happen. I also think that the H bomb detonation will be the incident, and that the radiation suits/medication will definitely come into this somehow. I think it will be a bit of a cop-out if they manage to stop everything that happened from happening, to be honest, i'd much rather their actions actually end up causing everything that they were aiming to stop. We've already had evidence that whatever happened, happened, and can't be changed. I'd like the show to close with the realisation by Jack et al that they are caught in an infinite time loop and this dawns on them in the last episode, which shows Jack waking up in the jungle again just like he does in S1E1 in the final shot. I'm calling it.

[Fireproofradiator]

Richard's worrying about Locke killing Jacob makes me lean more towards the idea that Jacob is John Locke rather than Jack... It's a neat counterbalance to the scene where he saves his own life.

Shakespeare - I love your idea that they're plugging the numbers in to stop an alternative timeline from happening. Makes my brain do backflips that one.

With Richard's comment that he saw everyone die, I'm more and more convinced we'll be seeing Faraday again. Hope we don't wind up with a clunky reset button tho.

Anyone planning a Lost party next week? Think I'm gonna drop round me mates as Mr Eko...

[Goose]

The thing about Ilana and the bomb - we don't know that they know what year it is on the main island, Ben was certainly caught off guard when he saw the 1977 photo.

I just had a thought about something - we know that Dharmaville can't be destroyed because when Christian showed Sun the photo he also mentioned a photo from a year later as well. Something like "77, 78..here you go, 1977".

I like that idea of Rudzinski feeling bad for continuing to drill and causing the incident, so surrendering himself to put the numbers in for many years.

No matter what, the island will course correct. Even if Jack could set off the bomb, the island would still find a way for the incident to take place anyway. People aren't going to make it and Chang is going to lose his arm.

To Fireproof - Don't forget, at the moment Locke hasn't told Richard he intends to kill Jacob, only Ben.

[Sponge]

I still don't like the idea that the island (or time) "course corrects". I'm happier going with the idea that as much as they want to or try to change things they can't because it's already happened like that, and we're just watching it all unfold.

To me it's the only way a time travel story can make any sort of sense and be in any way satisying. It's like the Terminator, where events of the future are directly caused by time travelling to the past (John Connor and Skynet are both the equivalent of the compass conundrum - which came first, Skynet or the T-800 they sent back? John Connor or sending Reese back to shag Sarah? You can't have one wthout the other). Of course T2 utterly raped the core concept of the first film into oblivion, as T2 has an entirely different take on time travel (more of a Back to the Future approach).

[Kramer]

I'd like the show to close with the realisation by Jack et al that they are caught in an infinite time loop and this dawns on them in the last episode, which shows Jack waking up in the jungle again just like he does in S1E1 in the final shot. I'm calling it.

Most people called that around Season 2!

However, while I agree that 'Whatever happened, happened" means that this will happen. I just can't believe 3 times in Lost we will see Jack wake up in the bamboo.

[Kramer]

Anyone planning a Lost party next week? Think I'm gonna drop round me mates as Mr Eko...

I'm gonna get my fave cheese dip with salt and vinegar Pringles.

Not much of a party per se though

[Stig]

If the H Bomb does go off, maybes thats what make Danielle party get "sick"

But the H bomb going off does sound like it may trigger the incident

[CactuarBill]

Anyone planning a Lost party next week? Think I'm gonna drop round me mates as Mr Eko...

I wish though I hardly know anyone who watches the show besides my housemate. I would love to watch the show with loads of people.