Lost - The Full Series Thread

[Goose]

I liked Jack to start with but as time wore on he seemed one of the least interesting of the bunch (second only to Kate in my opinion - I find Juliet a far more interesting character than she ever was - Kate always seemed to be set up to be something more that never materialised ) . I used to groan when we got a Jack-centric flashback because rarely did it seem like new/interesting things were introduced. Even the story of his tattoos was a bit of a non-event. I've found Sawyer as a much more interesting character, especially with him become LaFleur but still being the old Sawyer at heart.

This season he's certainly had little to work with, taking a back seat to all and sundry. I get the impression that since getting back to island he's been quietly vying for a leadership position again and is probably secretly over-joyed that its going to tits up for Sawyer et al.

Going back to Kate, even the story with the toy aeroplane seemed pretty poor. She tricked a bunch of guys to rob a bank so she could steal back a toy plane that belonged to her father?

[Anne Summers]

It seems like they have had to keep Jack at the front of things even though they know he isn't hugely liked by the audience... I guess because he's going to play a big part in the show's endgame... which is obviously going to hang on the Jack/ Locke "Man of Science, Man of Faith" thing. Jack's just about the only character left representing the science faction now. All of the other major players are Island-Lovers.

I don't even think it made sense that Jack would come back to the island. What was his motivation for doing so again? to rescue everyone else? Who does he care about so much that was still left on the island?

[squirtle]

His dad.

[CactuarBill]

It seems like they have had to keep Jack at the front of things even though they know he isn't hugely liked by the audience... I guess because he's going to play a big part in the show's endgame... which is obviously going to hang on the Jack/ Locke "Man of Science, Man of Faith" thing. Jack's just about the only character left representing the science faction now. All of the other major players are Island-Lovers.

I don't even think it made sense that Jack would come back to the island. What was his motivation for doing so again? to rescue everyone else? Who does he care about so much that was still left on the island?

Jack was the only one who really wanted to go back to the island. Jack isn't really the man of science anymore. He began to understand what Locke was telling him and when he found out he died, he was willing to end his own life.

When Jack left the island his life became really shit. He was a man people looked up to on the island. As Squirtle said Jack wants to see if his dad is in fact on the island.

[joeplus]

What's the story with Sun, Locke & Ben as well? In fact, more importantly Sun - why didn't she flash to the 70s like everyone else did? Is it because Locke didn't bring her, but Ben did? It seemed odd that people who flashed to the island found it to be in 1977 but people who visited the island found it to be...? Well we don't really know do we? We know the Dharma place is trashed - is that post-incident, post-purge or post-war that's coming?

Didn't someone mention the game of Risk that Hurley was playing with Sawyer (I think) was still visible when Ben went into the house to summon the beast? Which would make me think it's post-incident, but pre-everything else including the The Others moving to Dharmaville.

Hmmm.

Er... I think that Sun, Locke et al are definitely in the "present", i.e. three years after the Oceanic 6 left, the same time period as they got the Ajira plane. They didn't move in time at all. Dharmaville is trashed because they had that big fight with the boat crew at the end of S4, and it's been abandoned for 3yrs now.

[Fireproofradiator]

I like Jack. Sawyer's been found out - given half a chance he's just gone into nesting mode with Juliette in a portacabin, whereas Jack's still merrily making bad calls and trying to cop off with superhot Kate. That said Sawyer's had a much better defined story arc (and, frighteningly, one that seems to be winding up) whereas Jack's clearly been in a holding pattern the last couple of seasons, as has been pointed out...

I'm guessing this is cos he'll be a big part of the final season but yeah, bit baffled as to how they don't really seem to have known what to do with him until your big final season when the battle lines are finally drawn and we discover he is in fact Jacob (see *).

Personally I would have continued to have him going off the rails like when they went back to America - when he was tottering on the edge of bridges and working the beard he was pretty interesting and if they'd have had him still in this mode back on the island - making a pass at Juliette, squaring up to Sawyer, hijacking the islands experiments to try and work out what the hell happened/will happen to his Dad while generally ballsing things up - at least he'd be doing something. Failing that you would have thought at least he'd have returned with a new focus and a smile on his face, but neither's happened - he seems to have spent most this season emerging from the shower with a towel round his bigger than before tummy moaning about how crap the 70's are. Which we already knew.

Net result of this lack of clarity is the momentum's been lost for the character - and it doesn't feel right now like Jack's going to have a springboard to work his way up from to fulfil the hero's role he still seems destined for. That's unless something really bad happens to him over the course of the remaining couple of hours of this season...

* Proviso - Pet theory, may be bollocks.

[Kramer]

I'm not a huge Jack fan, however, I think Jack taking a back seat so far this season is a red herring - I think he's just about to go into JACK MODE.

[squirtle]

I'm not a huge Jack fan, however, I think Jack taking a back seat so far this season is a red herring - I think he's just about to go into JACK MODE.

Yeah, this. I think he's kinda accepting of stuff at the moment. Remember, he accepted the fact that what happened will happen. Ben will live without his intervention etc etc. He's come to some kind of zen level of "what will be will be." This was also evident in the way he just accepted being a janitor. It was always apparent, to me at least, that Jack was a reluctant leader. He just did it because no one else seemed to have the relevant qualities needed. He's now been able to step back from that, but I think he will be back at the forefront from now on in. He'll be pushing to make things happen, and I still think that although it seems to be a battle between Ben/Widmore/Third Party, it will still come down to choices made by Locke and Jack at the end of it all. I think they are the ones that it will all come to rest on.

[Sponge]

One thing I still don't understand is why they needed the whole drama of recreating the plane journey/crash so they could get back to the island, while plenty of others just come and go as they please on a sub and/or boat. I'm right in thinking this hasn't been addressed yet, yeah? I haven't missed anything have I?

[Fireproofradiator]

I think we're all agreed!

Interesting that (not just on here) people reckon there's a third party involved, and I'm hoping it's Faraday related. Death is not the end according to Lost, and I don't even care if that just means that Ilana and Bram or whoever turn out to be working from Faraday and Eloise's journal if that means that his story continues in some way...

[The Grand Pursuivant]

One thing I still don't understand is why they needed the whole drama of recreating the plane journey/crash so they could get back to the island, while plenty of others just come and go as they please on a sub and/or boat. I'm right in thinking this hasn't been addressed yet, yeah? I haven't missed anything have I?

The island was moving through both time and space when the Oceanic 6 were trying to get back. It wasn;t doing so in Dharma times, or when the Lostees originally crashed.

[Goose]

And let's not forget, Locke blew the submarine up!

I like the idea of a third party if it IS tied in to Faraday. I think if they're introducing a third party who just also want to take over the island then it's a bit late in the day to be giving these cats back stories and such. At the same time we know they're not working for Widmore and surely one of of them would have recognised Ben if they were working for him.

What if they're actually Dharma?

[mercenarri]

My money's on Chang if there is a third party. What loose ends does Faraday's story have anyway?

[squirtle]

One thing I still don't understand is why they needed the whole drama of recreating the plane journey/crash so they could get back to the island, while plenty of others just come and go as they please on a sub and/or boat. I'm right in thinking this hasn't been addressed yet, yeah? I haven't missed anything have I?

Well, it was Eloise wasn't it. And she would have known that somehow Jack and Kate and probably the rest have to go back to the island because, I'm presuming, she's about to meet them. It wasn't a case of them having to go back, it was a case that they were going to go back no matter what as what had happened in the past had to happen. And for it to happen, they had to go back to the island.

[Goose]

Do we actually know if Chang is dead? I know we assumed he was due to the purge but we never saw a body unlike Horace, Ben's Dad and hearing about Rudzinski killing himself. We know he survives the incident, losing an arm we assume in the process, but anything more? [Off to Wikipedia]

From Lostpedia - Confirmation of his death

On July 26, 2008 at Comic Con, a video shot by DHARMA recruit, Dan Bronson, was shown during the Lost panel which had a video of Chang talking to Comic Con audiences in the present from 30 years in the past, stating that he knew George W. Bush is the president, information is exchanged via the Internet, and that this information came from a reliable source. During this video, Chang stated that he was recruited to the island to study the Kerr Metric solutions to Einstein's Field Equations. He also knew that the entire DHARMA Initiative—including himself—would be killed in a "purge" (which he said they were "powerless to stop"), and claimed it was imperative that the DHARMA Initiative be reconstituted to finish the important work he and his colleagues had been engaged in. The unidentified man filming him argued with Chang, saying "This is useless!" and eventually turned the camera off.

[mdn2]

Lost's cliffhangers are becoming predictable. How many episodes have ended on a shooting now? Off the top of my head:

Sawyer gets shot on the raft at the end of S1

Ana Lucia shoots Shannon

Michael shoots Ana Lucia and Libby

Ben shoots Locke

Rousseau and Carl get shot by crazy marine guy

Sayid shoot young Ben

Daniels mother shoots Daniel

And how many times can they pull the 'Person X is related to Person Y but they don't know it!!!' angle? I'm waiting for the inevitable season finale where it turns out Hurley's real father was the third guy from the left in the airport scene in the pilot episode. Either that or the smoke monsters related to Sun, somehow.

I'm finding my interest in the show waning. Dunno why. I made it through S3 still interested but I'm ready for the show to end now.

[David Kenny]

Does anyone else think the character of Jack has completely gone of the boil? He hasn't done anything interesting for about 2 seasons now - I know he was always a bit of a weak character, I guess he just never developed in the way the writers' thought he would. It's like they designed his character to be the leading man of the series, but it turned out that the audience much preferred Sawyer, Locke and Ben, so they ended up giving them all the best lines and scenes.

The relevance here is that I don't really see what role Jack has to play any more, in the finale and the next season. Obviously he is going to come face to face with his dad at some point, but I don't really see how that will resolve anything that is important to the viewer.

The way I see it it fits in with one of the central themes of the whole series. Opposites, black and white, balance etc.

At the moment Sawyer is in the ascendacy in terms of his impact on the group so Jack must take a back seat, in the earlier seasons the opposite was true. I'm sure the balance will shift again before long.

[Sponge]

And let's not forget, Locke blew the submarine up!

Well, it was Eloise wasn't it. And she would have known that somehow Jack and Kate and probably the rest have to go back to the island because, I'm presuming, she's about to meet them. It wasn't a case of them having to go back, it was a case that they were going to go back no matter what as what had happened in the past had to happen. And for it to happen, they had to go back to the island.

I mean the physical conditions of going back. Everyone else can just turn up in a sub or boat but they had the whole pantomine of trying to recreate the circumstances of their original crash. Stupid things liking carrying a guitar (Charlie's, presumably) or Locke's dead body wearing a pair of Christian's shoes. Why?!

If Eloise knew where the island would be, why couldn't they all just bundle on a boat and sail there?

[Kramer]

I mean the physical conditions of going back. Everyone else can just turn up in a sub or boat but they had the whole pantomine of trying to recreate the circumstances of their original crash. Stupid things liking carrying a guitar (Charlie's, presumably) or Locke's dead body wearing a pair of Christian's shoes. Why?!

If Eloise knew where the island would be, why couldn't they all just bundle on a boat and sail there?

They had to recreate the conditions to 'zap' into a specific time. Eloise (and the Island, I assume) knew they had to be in the 1970's and I suppose the recreation was how you do it. I assume this implies, they would have been in the Locke/Sun/Frank/Ben time if they hadn't.

Widmore's freighter could find it, because the Island was stationary - he just needed to know the position. Now it's moving through space and time, it might move 'too fast' to be found by boat.

[Goose]

I still don't get why Sun, Ben and Locke went to the island and it was present day. I wonder too, with Faraday gone, what he meant when he said to Jack that his mother was wrong, that it wasn't his destiny - was that Faraday still thinking he could alter something or does he really know that Jack shouldn't have been there? Curious that he never said it to anyone else. Why didn't Faraday ask to see Kate? or Hurley?

Maybe I'm not cool but I only found out last week that the show was developed under the name 'Circle'

As for the shooting - I guess it's the best way to create a cliffhanger, while occasionally allowing them to be ambiguous about a character's fate.

[Sponge]

They had to recreate the conditions to 'zap' into a specific time. Eloise (and the Island, I assume) knew they had to be in the 1970's and I suppose the recreation was how you do it. I assume this implies, they would have been in the Locke/Sun/Frank/Ben time if they hadn't.

Widmore's freighter could find it, because the Island was stationary - he just needed to know the position. Now it's moving through space and time, it might move 'too fast' to be found by boat.

OK, but that's all assumption and guesswork, which is what I'm getting at. None of this is even remotely confirmed is it?

[Sponge]

Just thinking, by the time Jack and the gang went back Locke had already stopped the island jumping around, so the idea that it was moving too fast for boats to get to doesn't really hold.

[Kramer]

OK, but that's all assumption and guesswork, which is what I'm getting at. None of this is even remotely confirmed is it?

Yeah, that's right - not confirmed.

If they do confirm it, which I doubt they will, it'll be Season 6 I imagine. I don't think they'll bother though - sometimes we've just got to take a leap of faith based on what we're told.

[The Grand Pursuivant]

Just thinking, by the time Jack and the gang went back Locke had already stopped the island jumping around, so the idea that it was moving too fast for boats to get to doesn't really hold.

Well, not exactly. He stopped the Lostees from bouncing around through time. The present day Island may very well still be moving.

[mercenarri]

Am I only one who likes Jack's character?

I can't wait for him to explode back into Jack mode. It feels like this whole season he's been purposefully in the back lines, something isn't right about it all. I think we're being set up for a massive revelation regarding Jack, either that or Jack has been purposefully outcast so that when the shit really hits the fan, he'll be drafted back in and sort everything out as a leader (i.e. loved again by the audience).

Faraday and Ben are very interesting characters, but I feel more comfortable and sympathetic when the original cast are on screen, especially the person the whole show started with; Jack and his eye.

[Capwn]

Am I only one who likes Jack's character?

I can't wait for him to explode back into Jack mode. It feels like this whole season he's been purposefully in the back lines, something isn't right about it all. I think we're being set up for a massive revelation regarding Jack, either that or Jack has been purposefully outcast so that when the shit really hits the fan, he'll be drafted back in and sort everything out as a leader (i.e. loved again by the audience).

Faraday and Ben are very interesting characters, but I feel more comfortable and sympathetic when the original cast are on screen, especially the person the whole show started with; Jack and his eye.

Yeah Jack's really interesting, it's obvious there is something going on with him at the moment.

[Sir DangerM]

Why did Daniel's mum want to kill him (assuming she knew that would happen when she sent him back to the island)?

[Festoon]

Why did Daniel's mum want to kill him (assuming she knew that would happen when she sent him back to the island)?

That's what I can't understand either - why did she WANT to kill him?

[oli]

I still wasn't clear about why Daniel starts crying or why he goes in waving a gun around

[rubberducker]

Why did Daniel's mum want to kill him (assuming she knew that would happen when she sent him back to the island)?

it was obvious she was sacrificing him for something bigger than what she wanted...