Lost - The Full Series Thread

[therearerules]

My wife just said something - remember when Charlotte was in her final moments and she said she remembered Daniel coming to her when she was little and telling her to leave the island and that she must never return? Well he didn't tell her to never return, only to make sure she got on the sub.

Yeah, but there are dozens of mistakes like that every episode. Personally I thought this one was distinctly average and don't see what the joy is for.

[Laine]

Maybe he deliberately didn't tell her not to return.

[moss]

Also we didn't see Faraday walk away from Charlotte when she was on the swings, and there was a bit where the camera zoomed out and he was still crouched in front of her – we didn't necessarily hear the full conversation.

But I kind of agree with therearerules. I thought it was a good episode, but hardly amazing.

[Laine]

I do get overexcited about Lost but I thought there were some pretty sweet reveals, I love Faradays mother and how it was goign back to him crying looking at the crashed ship from past epiodes, and how his girlfriend got really ill after his dodgy experiment and stuff. I love the little things like that and how thing get tied together.

[Goose]

It also confirmed that Widmore faked the crash. Sure, we always suspected and had pointers and such but it was nice to have it confirmed after all this time.

Any thoughts on why Daniel was crying about the crashed plane? It seems a bit too obvious to say that he was sad because a plane had crashed and people had died.

We still don't know why Eloise left the island, I wonder if she was banished for killing Faraday? Did anyone else think it was weird too, that she was almost determined to kill him - she had no idea why Faraday wanted to speak to her, of all people. They had plenty of guns about the place and Richard even said afterwards, that he would not have shot him (Richard). It was almost like she did it to stop him revealing something.

[Laine]

We still don't know why Eloise left the island, I wonder if she was banished for killing Faraday? Did anyone else think it was weird too, that she was almost determined to kill him - she had no idea why Faraday wanted to speak to her, of all people. They had plenty of guns about the place and Richard even said afterwards, that he would not have shot him (Richard). It was almost like she did it to stop him revealing something.

I definitely got the impression she knew what she was doing.

[Janson]

My wife just said something - remember when Charlotte was in her final moments and she said she remembered Daniel coming to her when she was little and telling her to leave the island and that she must never return? Well he didn't tell her to never return, only to make sure she got on the sub.

He was still speaking to her when the scene cut, so I think he told her something different, that we will find out about later. Him trying to change the future..

[Janson]

Any thoughts on why Daniel was crying about the crashed plane? It seems a bit too obvious to say that he was sad because a plane had crashed and people had died.

I reckon it was something to do with him sort of 'knowing' somehow it was all down to him not being able to stop the Hydrogen bomb. Like his subconcious screaming 'omg wake up u wer in 1977s!!1111!'

[Broker]

Well, if this is anything to go by the last 3 episodes of this series will be amazing.

Two

[DarthSquirrel]

I think she had no idea what the future holds because all she had is Daniel's journal which contains all the information she needs to know what will happen (I'm guessing she picks up the journal after shooting him in 1977). I think that episode's present day, in the hospital, was the day Faraday's journal ended. So she has no idea what happens after that.

Just finished the latest episode. Wow.

I didn't consider the contents of the journal, only that it represents the "constant" - as with Locke's compass/watch which, as far as i can recall, the last time we saw that he gave it to Richard. Richard now has both 'constants' in 1977 - don't know if that could be significant.

Thinking more about the people="variables" thing i wondered if Desmond is actually a 'constant' which is why Faraday regarded him as key to keeping things 'where they should be'. I then wondered if Desmond was perhaps a constant off the island then Richard might be an equivalent 'constant' (literaly) on the island, as i don't remember the non-aging thing being explained yet.

Exciting stuff.

[Chaz]

Yeah, but there are dozens of mistakes like that every episode. Personally I thought this one was distinctly average and don't see what the joy is for.

Same here, it certainly didn't offer any shocking revelations or reveal anything that I hadn't already figured out for myself. I'm quite sure what the emphasis on the

Widmore daddy reveal

was all about, everyone saw that coming weeks ago. The gunfight and then subsequently the shit hitting the fan was pretty well done though.

Still, I have high hopes that the next few episodes will be suitably epic.

[makkuwata]

Yeah, it was an enjoyable episode, but it didn't meet expectations (which were probably unfairly high, given the ep title and general premise).

Still, I really liked the whole build up to how shit hitting the fan is mere hours away, island time.

[Comrade]

Seriously, I don't see how anyone could consider that episode "average", it was great. I do hope that

Daniel's not dead, though I increasingly think he is. I'm not sure how the show is going to progress now though - are we just going to assume that for some reason the Incident throws them back to the present? Narratively speaking they're going to have a lot of trouble without Daniel to explain all the crazy shit. Although they could just revert to having Ben do it.

[Broker]

Seriously, I don't see how anyone could consider that episode "average", it was great. I do hope that

Daniel's not dead, though I increasingly think he is. I'm not sure how the show is going to progress now though - are we just going to assume that for some reason the Incident throws them back to the present? Narratively speaking they're going to have a lot of trouble without Daniel to explain all the crazy shit. Although they could just revert to having Ben do it.

I'm guessing Locke will disappear for a bit and then be the one who does the explaining. Do we know who next weeks episode is focused on?

[Goose]

I'm guessing Locke will disappear for a bit and then be the one who does the explaining. Do we know who next weeks episode is focused on?

Just posted it in the Spoiler thread for you

[peeveen]

Yeah, a decent episode. I'm guessing at some point we might find out what happened to Dan during his 70's off-island time that made him

change his mind about "predetermined futures" and stuff, cos he was pretty adamant about it previously

.

Not many episodes to go then (18, is it?). I'm thinking there's gonna be a hell of a lot of loose ends, unless the whole of season six is a round-table discussion between Widmore, Ben, Alpert, Jacob and Chang.

[Goose]

Just two left this season, next Wednesday then the following Wednesday, which is a 2 hour finale (or 80 minutes of actual show if you know what I mean)

[Rayn]

Wast the LOST title sequence diffrent for anyone else? For the first time ever, the LOST title floated across a starry background (space), and the USS Enterprise (from Star Trek) flew out of it.

[Goose]

I got the normal opening sequence but reading around a few places it was shown with the one you mentioned - obviously Abrams getting his plug in

Apparently the issue of Wired magazine in Daniel's place that Widmore moved off the chair was from (I think) 2003 and the cover notation was something like "Making the Impossible, Possible"

[zxcvbnm]

Richard took Ben to the temple and healed his bullet wound - who's to say he doesn't do the same to Faraday?

[Goose]

To Jeebus

But Ben was still alive and I got the impression from that final shot that wasn't. Unless, the sacrifice that Eloise was on about was robbing Faraday of his innocence (and his memory)

[squirtle]

I initially thought that Faraday was going to cause the incident by trying to stop it. It would never have happened if he hadn't of interfered. Then obviously he got shot, so he might be dead. But I'm thinking not, and I'm thinking maybe he will still cause the incident as he now knows that what happened is going to happen. I'm also starting to wonder if the incident throws him backwards in time and he is Jacob.

[Tetchy]

Two

Just two left this season, next Wednesday then the following Wednesday, which is a 2 hour finale (or 80 minutes of actual show if you know what I mean)

So that'd be the last three episodes of programme content then.

[squirtle]

Here's a thought: The password spoken by those people in the other plane, was it: "Do you know what lies in the shadow of the statue?" It was, wasn't it. Well, what does lie in the shadow of the statue? Charlotte's body does as that was where she died in Daniel's arms. And nobody would know that apart from Daniel I would imagine. So is it possible that the third faction isn't Chang's, but an older Faraday? Maybe he doesn't die here but gets stuck in the timeline, not jumping forward as I am guessing the rest of them will do at some point. Maybe he's been looking for the island again and has had to wait 30 years to get his stuff together to go back. Or something.

[Goose]

I think whether he's dead or not, his story can't have ended yet, there's still a lot of unanswered stuff. Perhaps he's part of some time loop like Desmond was. Did we know about the fact that he experimented on himself before this episode? I wonder what else it did to him - obviously the effects weren't as bad as the were on Teresa (perhaps because he had a constant and she did not?) but seemed the one main effect was memory loss from day to day. But I wonder what benefit it had too? Was he able to transport himself (or his mind) into the past? Is the death of Faraday enough to drag Desmond back to the island? They seemed to make a big deal about Des saying he'd never leave Penelope ever again.

I like that idea about the shadow and the third faction being Faraday's posse. They obviously aren't working for Widmore, and I can't see them working for Ben because he'd have been talking to them, organising them (and he would have known there were guns in that silver box).

Where'd that box come from anyway? Was it already on the plane?

[Capwn]

So season 4 was about flashforwards in time, season 5 is about jumping around in time, I wonder what the format is in season 6?

[Tofu]

Daniel Faraday has always been a compelling character on "Lost", because it always felt like he knew more than he was letting on, thanks to his journal and his knowledge of arcane time-travel physics. It's about time that there was an episode dedicated to his origins and journey. It's unfortunate that this episode also represents the end of that journey.

On the other hand, it does make a certain amount of dramatic sense. How often does it seem like the one person with all the answers is right there to provide the exposition when the time comes? This makes it a lot more interesting, because now Daniel is gone, leaving only his notes and thoughts, scattered as they are. So his knowledge will be filtered through the familiar eyes and minds of those with other agendas.

The net effect is likely to be the exact opposite of what Daniel intended. If Daniel's story represents anything, it's that he was probably wrong. Desmond's attempts to save Charlie in the third season were, in essence, exactly the kind of "variable" that Daniel tries to become. As Daniel's mother made very clear at the time, the course of time corrects for anything a "variable" might do.

Daniel spends most of the episode trying to change things, but in all likelihood, he doesn't. Whatever happened, happened. He prompts Pierre Chang to send certain individuals off the island to protect them from the impending "incident". (With only three hours left to the season, that moment is swiftly approaching.) By mentioning that he wants to destroy the electromagnetic anomaly under the location of the Swan Station, using Jughead in the process, it's extremely likely that he brings about the conditions that lead to everything that he tries to prevent.

In fact, as many others have guessed, bringing Jughead closer to the Swan Station is likely to explain why there was an inability of women on the island to survive pregnancy among the Others. That inability was clearly not a problem prior to "the incident". It might even explain Ben's eventual cancer, and the island's inability to heal it. If a bomb leaking radiation is close to the electromagnetic anomaly when it bursts with unforeseen intensity, "the incident" could have spread just enough radiation to leave the island inhabitable yet still have unforeseen consequences later.

In the larger sense, this episode demonstrates the tragedy of Daniel's life, tying into the futility of trying to change the course of history. Daniel's mother spent every day of his life preparing him for this moment. It's a tragedy for Eloise Hawking as well, and it may even explain why she was so sure, speaking with Desmond, that time will always course-correct.

Daniel's story, and his apparently futile efforts to change history, demonstrate the strict rules of time travel in the "Lost" universe. Whatever happened, happened. That's why the series is like a puzzle; the pieces all eventually fit together because events are effectively set in stone. It's a universe where predestination trumps free will every time. Yet, at the very same time, events tend to depend on the choices made by individuals.

That's not contradictory. The characters see time through the perspective of their collective experience. History, for them, is a matter of memory. Anything that happens in their personal future is impossible to know, and therefore they make choices based on what they know and experience. It is unknown because, for human beings, time is a variable dimension.

On the other hand, for human beings, the familiar three dimensions (length, width, depth) are fixed. The coordinate system is what it is; distances are what they are. A foot is always a foot, a meter is always a meter. One can take a map and go, with confidence, from point A to point B, because the physical locations will always be fixed.

History is just the convenient word for a period of "time" that is, in essence, fixed from human perspective. The events between time A and time B have already happened, and the cause and effect can be clearly understood. To the individuals living during that period, of course, it didn't feel set in stone. The future, for them, was unknown and variable. Logically speaking, events in human lives right now, in this very moment, are just "history" from a future perspective. At some point, others will look back and say, without question, "Whatever happened, happened". There will be no changing it.

The introduction of time travel, at least in the "Lost" universe, doesn't change that fundamental truth. All that changes is how the individuals living through the "history" are perceiving and experiencing it. It still boils down to a deterministic cause and effect.

None of which, unfortunately, explains how the Oceanic Tribe is supposed to return to the "present" of 2007, where the impending war is still brewing. Could the "incident" take everyone who is outside of their proper time and shift them back (or ahead) to where they belong? Given some of the more insane things that happen on the island, it wouldn't be particularly hard to swallow.

In the meantime, things look to get pretty violent as the Oceanic Tribe struggles to stay alive. The shootout was surprising, and it's hard to imagine how things will go well for Sawyer and Juliet.

[Comrade]

Spoiler alert for the more anal among you: Head writers of Lost Damon and Carlton have confirmed that Daniel is

definitely dead.

[Goose]

Bugger!

[evilwallpaper]

in what time line though