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Beyond Good and Evil


Mercury
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I did love this game, certainly worth £20...however you know what it felt like to me...a rushed ending. Suddenly everything came to a head and BAM! That was it.

Looks like they ran out of dev time IMO.

Reading the Edge interview with the creator it seems as though they had more than enough development time.Apparently the team where pretty much finished when Ubi-soft came along and told them to take another year to finish things off.

Unfortunately there will be no sequel, Ancel recently confirmed on Ubisofts forums that the first game didn't sell nearly well enough to justify its existance.

:lol:

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Well, I played a bit more at the weekend and I absolutely adore it. The characterisation, the music, the pacing, the variety, the photography element, the plot, just...everything!

To me it has that perfect mix of well paced, plot-driven objectives (i.e. "here is where you need to go next"), as well as a sandbox approach with all the pearls/animals to collect, mini games etc. The overworld layout, and the sheer amount of exploration there is to do make this tailor made for my tastes.

So far, one of the best games of this generation, in my humble opinion.

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Lightweight? How so?

Non-complex, puzzle-wise, etc. I mean, you don't really have to think too hard to work anything out. Wanna get past the robot? Get a gun upgrade. Wanna clear the laser beams? Get a boost jump, etc. It's all a bit obvious, you just keep ending up back at Mammago's. I can pretty much predict how the whole game is going to pan out from where I am now. And the 'puzzles' in dungeons just sort of play themselves out without much effort too. You don't have to work out complex configurations; you just go somewhere which gives you something to go somewhere else which lets you go somewhere else and that's about it. The cleverest thing I've seen so far would have to be the camera disc thing and its uses seem to run out pretty quickly in the factory.

Still, it's very relaxing to play, since it's not particularly challenging I find the world a joy to sail around. Although it's a little bit small.

I just find it weird that people seemed to condemn Wind Waker for being 'dumbed down' whereas this is even more so and gets praised universally. Though perhaps these aren't the same people... :lol:

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Must be other people. I never said TWW was dumbed down. I found it perfectly playable. BG+E does perhaps play like Jak+Daxter in the ease stakes, but that is no bad thing. I think it's in this month GamesTM where the makers of the upcoming PS2 FPS Cold Winter said something along the lines of how the game is not that difficult because they want everyone to see what it offers from start to finish. Why make it so difficult for people to see all the cool things you've put in a game? I like this attitude personally.

Back to BG+E, have you managed to capture all the animals and pearls? And lastly, i think the overall story arc was much more important to Ancel in making BG+E. He wants you to see the whole thing because it is quite a good yarn. Again, nothing wrong with that.

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Must be other people. I never said TWW was dumbed down. I found it perfectly playable. BG+E does perhaps play like Jak+Daxter in the ease stakes, but that is no bad thing. I think it's in this month GamesTM where the makers of the upcoming PS2 FPS Cold Winter said something along the lines of how the game is not that difficult because they want everyone to see what it offers from start to finish. Why make it so difficult for people to see all the cool things you've put in a game? I like this attitude personally.

Well yeah, but when it becomes so easy that it feels like it's just 'playing itself', you've gotta ask "what's the point?"

Still, it's not that bad, it's just not as mentally or physically engaging as something like Zelda.

I agree though, they've put so much effort into the characters and story and world and everything that it would be a crime if less people got to see it all. And I'm quite pleased that it's pretty 'short' too.

Back to BG+E, have you managed to capture all the animals and pearls?

No, I came across a bug in the game and had to restart from the begining. :lol:

I think I'm doing better this time around though, as I stopped to find things like the funny penguin running around on top of the lighthouse. Thankfully it's short enough for me to get back to where I was quite quickly.

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I finished it two saturdays ago and enjoyed every minute. I played to the end of the black isle on PS2, the start of the Slaughterhouse on PC and finally to the end on my Xbox. Just as well really. Ninja Gaiden turned up that saturday morning and if I hadn't finished the last bit then I probably never would of. I was two photos off the total and got all the pearls.

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Well yeah, but when it becomes so easy that it feels like it's just 'playing itself', you've gotta ask "what's the point?"

But it's not "playing itself". It was me who spotted that the Shark Guy was hurriedly covering up his room code with his hand, Me who won all those races, Me who won the Air Hockey Game, Me who twatted the boss, etc, etc...

I do agree that the game is quite lightweight in terms of The Things You Have To Do, but I think that could be because it is quite clearly sign-posted. It's nowhere near as bad as something like Starfox Adventures which basically says stuff like "Put staff here to get up here".

Besides, being able to progress means that I can experience more of the delightfully non-lightweight themes. Sing with me - "Propaganda!"

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But it's not "playing itself". It was me who spotted that the Shark Guy was hurriedly covering up his room code with his hand, Me who won all those races, Me who won the Air Hockey Game, Me who twatted the boss, etc, etc...

Okay, first of all... the shark is covering up his room code??!!!!! :(

Cool, thanks! :D

Secondly, yeah I know it isn't 'playing itself', I just meant that if easiness is better for 'seeing the whole game' then at some point it isn't and that point would be when it plays itself and becomes pointless.

And thirdly, I was mainly referring to the dungeons; progressing through them is requiring no thought from me, really, as I just have to go where it allows me to and use single items in single ways. It's very one-dimensional, requiring no real experimentation.

The world itself, however, is quite freeform, and I like this. However it does seem a little on the small side, but this has meant that the level of detail is through the roof. That main canal section, for example, has got to be one of the best renditions of a 'busy' city location I've ever witnessed. It's like everything a sci-fi city environment should be, albeit a very small section of one.

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Yeah, I take your point, it's just that I think BG&E falls on the right side of too easy.

I think there are more challenging elements in the game if you're prepared to look for them. I mean, you didn't even notice that code! :(

Edit: Oh, and I couldn't agree more about the level of detail. Just wandering around the lighthouse, then going up onto the roof in the first 10 minutes of the game was a joy. You know, I still haven't worked out what to do with that waddling penguin thing...

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I think there are more challenging elements in the game if you're prepared to look for them. I mean, you didn't even notice that code :(

:D I'm so ashamed.

Actually, many of the animal photographs provide more challenge than the actual story-progressing elements. Perhaps this the way forwards - optional difficulty?

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:D I'm so ashamed.

Actually, many of the animal photographs provide more challenge than the actual story-progressing elements. Perhaps this the way forwards - optional difficulty?

Yeah, why not? I know I was demanding harder puzzles the other week, but that doesn't mean that all games of every type have to have you completely stumped at some point. I like the fact that there is this optional collection element, some of which is quite challenging, but other people can skip it and still enjoy the game.

Just watch that Shark's hand as you come down the stairs... :(

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I managed a shot of the Penguin without the sheild.

Just, mind. One of those pics that catches the animals ear and the science lady is really chuffed with for osme reason. Hehehe.

And that last puzzle in the game had me stumped for a while. (The light beams one,) but otherwise, I would agree it's a fairly straighforward game.

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It's a nice enough game, but this universal praise it's getting is just not justified. People calling it "Zelda for adults" - sure, only if your take of adults are people who want a quick and easy ride with hardly any challenges. It is definitely the impression I'm getting though, that people who really like this game like the whole atmosphere of it, not the gameplay as such. They seem to actually quite like the fact that the game demands so little of the player.

I'm all for frustration-free gaming, but this takes the piss. The stealth sections and those goddamn mines in the water did annoy the shit out of me though.

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Well, I managed to cram some hours in by staying up until 4am Sunday and 1am today. I'm now on the final boss, and I've got 21 hours showing on the clock.

Got all the pearls, and all the animals. There were about 5 of these in the Ancient Mines - God knows how I missed so many first time round. I thought that some of the animal pictures required fairly ingenious approaches to uncover.

Anyway, I just love it. It's one of the most balanced and well-paced games I've played in years, not to mention one of the most varied. Just when I didn't think it could get any better, off you fly into space. By the time the Hillyans and I were dogfighting with the Alpha Sections, I was on Cloud Nine. Lylat Wars stylee! :(

Only got 2 boxes of KBups for the boss fight, and I keep dying. Just struck me though that I should take all the extra hearts from Double H and Pey'j, since they get twatted anyway.

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But it's not "playing itself". It was me who spotted that the Shark Guy was hurriedly covering up his room code with his hand,

That's how to get into that room!

Bastard!

I can't believe I didn't spot it.

And that's the beauty of BG&E, you don't have to find everything. This leads to different players having different experiences.

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