The controller conundrum - shockingly poor reliability and pro money makers

[Uzi]

So we've all had a good laugh recently at the Dual Sense Edge costing an eye watering £210(!) while also having a minuscule battery. 

 

I was one of these pointers and laughers. Oh boy did I point. 

 

Yet, today with the general release of the controller, I've been refreshing John Lewis to see if they carry it 

 

Why?

 

Well for that I need to rewind a little.

 

I primarily game on PC. On PC I had up until a while ago what I thought was the perfect controller set up.

 

The Xbox Elite 2 controller with the Microsoft official wireless controller dongle for PC. A great premium controller with flawless wireless interface with no latency and little to no drop outs. 

 

Until the following happened a while ago. 

 

Stick drift. Fucking stick drift. To the point that the left stick is SO fucked, the character will move on their own backwards to infinity and I need to fight the stick on it. Stick calibration or software can't fix it. So its fucked. 

 

It's out of warranty. MS want £75 to replace it. Two issues with that. They will send a refurb to do so and no where on MS's own website does it say what the warranty with the replacement is. Is it 30 days? 3 months? 6 months? 1 year? There is zero info. Secondly. When I try and order it it errors out anyway.  

 

Fine. Maybe I can get the new Elite Core 2 controller. I don't need the accessories and the case since I already have that. And its newer! Maybe they fixed some of the quality control issues that Elite controllers have! After all, MS themselves said:

 

“We’ve heard players loud and clear and have continued to improve Elite Series 2 controllers to be more reliable than ever before with refined components that are built to last,” says Daniel Ruiz, senior marketing manager for Xbox accessories. 

 

Brilliant! Because elite controllers dying like they caught the RROD failure rate is pretty fucking bad. But oh look, it turns out they fail just as poorly if not more if you do a seconds worth of searching. Fucking great. 

 

Now John Lewis sell the Elite Core for £110 with 2 years warranty. Which means £55 per year if it inevitably dies after the 2 years of any warranty claims. I also still have an Elite 1 controller with fucked bumpers and some sticky face buttons. 

 

Remember that wireless MS dongle for PC? I've had two of those fail on me too (for something that remains permanently plugged into a usb port) so I'd have to use the pad wired or over laggy bluetooth as the elite controllers I own don't even connect wirelessly anymore to the dongle. 

 

I own two dual senses. One is still on the box as a backup, my current one from launch is still going strong but I haven't used it anywhere near as much as the elite controllers i've owned so it could be that. I won't even mention switch joycons for obvious reasons.

 

So coming back to the dual sense edge. I'm considering it because I'm just sick of this shit and the controller lets you replace the sticks for £20. But it costs so much up front that the idea of this being a forever controller is somewhat nullified from a cost perspective as well as not knowing what else could fail in it long term. 

 

I don't mind paying for a nicer controller with more features and accessories. But they can't be so fucking disposable man. There is technology that exists called hall effect joysticks that more or less eliminate stick drift and deadzone issues on controllers. Such as this:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KingKong-Wireless-Controller-Bluetooth-Joystick/dp/B0B256ZXJ4/ref=pd_ci_mcx_mh_ci_mcx_mr_mp_m_8?pd_rd_w=cQiEB&content-id=amzn1.sym.28313fad-16ab-47c0-bfc2-6c61aa1ecc77&pf_rd_p=28313fad-16ab-47c0-bfc2-6c61aa1ecc77&pf_rd_r=1739QSA4FYMWTVDXRRFJ&pd_rd_wg=Btkxq&pd_rd_r=9bf70b13-5bf1-47f3-be26-0136c11a7478&pd_rd_i=B0B256ZXJ4

 

However, they are only in third party pads like the above and the 8 bit do ultra something controller rather than any first party options. Apparently, this same company linked to above might make hall effect joysticks for the Sony Dual Sense Edge which could mean a pro controller that will never ever get stick drift. However even if that happens, you're likely £300 down if not more. 

 

For now I'm using a standard dual sense on PC via usb c which is fine, but for example, game pass games don't pick up the controller as it seems to only pick up x input so I'm just thinking about getting the core from john lewis and swallowing the fact that it might just last me the two years. 

 

I appreciate this is very first world issues, but its a fucking joke in all honesty. I remember owning 3-4 xbox 360's and vowing I wouldn't put up with that shit again and now that shoddyness has just moved on to controllers as I'm considering buying my 3rd elite controller and 3rd wireless dongle. FFS.

 

 

 

 

[Alex W.]

Consumer electronics is one of those areas where buying a more expensive version never gets you better build quality or longevity. The £2000 iPhone is still put together by hand in five rushed minutes by an underpaid factory worker. It ain’t shoes, if you don’t need the features save your cash.

[SharkyOB]

8 minutes ago, Uzi said:

Remember that wireless MS dongle for PC? I've had two of those fail on me too (for something that remains permanently plugged into a usb port) so I'd have to use the pad wired or over laggy bluetooth as the elite controllers I own don't even connect wirelessly anymore to the dongle. 

 

I had that happen to me once and a firmware update solved it.  Assume you've tried that but thought I'd mention it.

[Uzi]

1 minute ago, SharkyOB said:

 

I had that happen to me once and a firmware update solved it.  Assume you've tried that but thought I'd mention it.

Thank you! I've not tried that so will give it a go. It's odd as it worked fine for 18 months or so and then now it won't but I'll report back

[El Spatula]

I've had 3 elite controllers die on me. One the RB/LB died, turns out it's the worlds most pathetic bit of plastic holding them in place. Second one delaminated itself,  fuck knows why. Third one had mad stick drift after a year, then the RB/LB buttons fell off. 
 

I'm not buying another one. They all died just out of warranty. My XBox One controller is still going strong!

[Timmo]

Stick drift is really, really fucking shit and I have absolutely no issue ordering replacement controllers off of Amazon and sending my shitters straight back for a full refund. Probably the most illegal thing I do. See you in court Jeff Bezos

[RubberJohnny]

I switched to a PS5 controller on PC because I went though a bunch of Xbox ones, it’s nice (and the revision ones that apparently fix the stick drift) but the main problem is support, both Hi Fi Rush and Hot Wheels Unleashed recently just don’t recognise it, and I don’t exactly want to play either title on keyboard and mouse.

 

Hot Wheels supports PS4 controllers but not PS5 and Hi Fi Rush is Xbox only, that still seems to be the default on PC.

[SnoopZakaDaVe]

Had massive issues with the first Xbox elite controller and series 2 I had break on me twice? With returns to a shop for replacements then again after a year or so which I returned to Microsoft, who in turn sent me back I think 4 replacement elite series 2 controllers in a row all of which were faulty out of the box before I returned to them for a voucher for the cost I paid for the pad 

 

I vowed to never go near one again, they're absolute crap.

[Uzi]

3 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

I switched to a PS5 controller on PC because I went though a bunch of Xbox ones, it’s nice (and the revision ones that apparently fix the stick drift) but the main problem is support, both Hi Fi Rush and Hot Wheels Unleashed recently just don’t recognise it, and I don’t exactly want to play either title on keyboard and mouse.

 

Hot Wheels supports PS4 controllers but not PS5 and Hi Fi Rush is Xbox only, that still seems to be the default on PC.

It is because MS don't support D input for controllers via the dual sense on their PC games via game pass. Which is fair enough from their perspective. I don't know if the workaround of adding the game pass games to launch via steam big picture mode could get around that as I've never added game pass games to steam to launch

[K]

I've been pretty disappointed by the Xbox Series controllers this generation. I've had one succumb to stick drift after less than a year, had a rechargable battery pack die in the same period, and they feel relatively cheap - the rumble in particular is this nasty wasp-like buzzing. It's odd because the Series X is a very classy thing in itself - everything feels really nice, from the packaging to the way that memory cards slot in - but the controllers are a bit shoddy.

[Nate Dogg III]

Would DS4Windows solve the Game Pass problem?

 

I'm never spending big on a controller again, such a false economy. These things should come with 10-year warranties.

[Garwoofoo]

I love the Elite 2 controllers, they're superb bits of kit and the paddles are transformational... but the failure rate is ridiculous. The left bumper stopped working on my original Elite 2 and of course it was just outside of warranty so MS wanted £80 to fix it.

 

In the end I bought a Elite 2 Core controller to replace it when they were released, and swapped the paddles, sticks etc over from my original. So I have a working controller again, even if I do feel like a bit of a mug and part of me is just waiting for it to fail again.

 

Sony are no better though, I left my PS4 controllers in a drawer for six months and when I went back to them the analogue sticks had gone all gross and sticky. Both sticks on both controllers. No idea why that has happened but I've got Xbox 360 controllers that are over 15 years old that are still trucking along so it's not a universal issue or anything.

[PK]

15 minutes ago, Nate Dogg III said:

Would DS4Windows solve the Game Pass problem?

 

It does, this is what I use to get around the same issue @Uzi

[K]

it seems odd that there aren't more, better, controllers available, especially when you look at the PC market and the enormous range of posh keyboards and mice that are available. You would have thought that there would be a market for high-end, primo controllers targeted at nerds with disposable income, but it feels like the 16-bit era was the last point at which third party controllers were anything more than cheapo supermarket own-brand versions of official pads. I guess there's 8bitdo, but they seem to aim for stuff that's on the same level as the official ones, rather than anything too premium.

 

Do the console manufacturers have some kind of stranglehold on wireless controllers licensed to work with Xbox / PS5? There seem to be loads of third party wired pads, but few/no wireless ones.

[Gotters]

Isn't stick drift a thing of the past when companies start using these flashy 'hall effect' sticks I keep reading about ?

 

This type of thing 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-Bluetooth-Controller-Joysticks-NFC-Amiibo/dp/B0878QMPKH

[HarryBizzle]

I bought a Pulse Red (lovely colour, btw) Xbox controller recently and it suffered from a button sticking, so I had to send it back. Apparently this is fairly common with their controllers at the moment, so their QC seems to have gone downhill. 
 

 

Cant you just buy a normal Xbox controller and replace the sticks yourself if they mess up? I bought a kit to replace Joycon sticks from Amazon which worked fine. Annoying that there is a market for such a kit, though. 

[Timmo]

6 minutes ago, Gotters said:

Isn't stick drift a thing of the past when companies start using these flashy 'hall effect' sticks I keep reading about ?

 

This type of thing 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-Bluetooth-Controller-Joysticks-NFC-Amiibo/dp/B0878QMPKH

This is it, the tech is there but Sony and Microsoft actively choose not to include it in their £60 controllers.

[Qazimod]

1 hour ago, Uzi said:

I don't mind paying for a nicer controller with more features and accessories. But they can't be so fucking disposable man. There is technology that exists called hall effect joysticks that more or less eliminate stick drift and deadzone issues on controllers. Such as this:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KingKong-Wireless-Controller-Bluetooth-Joystick/dp/B0B256ZXJ4/ref=pd_ci_mcx_mh_ci_mcx_mr_mp_m_8?pd_rd_w=cQiEB&content-id=amzn1.sym.28313fad-16ab-47c0-bfc2-6c61aa1ecc77&pf_rd_p=28313fad-16ab-47c0-bfc2-6c61aa1ecc77&pf_rd_r=1739QSA4FYMWTVDXRRFJ&pd_rd_wg=Btkxq&pd_rd_r=9bf70b13-5bf1-47f3-be26-0136c11a7478&pd_rd_i=B0B256ZXJ4

 

However, they are only in third party pads like the above and the 8 bit do ultra something controller rather than any first party options. Apparently, this same company linked to above might make hall effect joysticks for the Sony Dual Sense Edge which could mean a pro controller that will never ever get stick drift. However even if that happens, you're likely £300 down if not more. 

 

I heard a story a while ago about a thirdparty controller with hall effect sticks that was supposed to be decent, but they ended up cutting costs in other places to keep the price low, and you end up with great sticks on a cheap feeling pad with crap buttons. So the hall effect sticks aren't necessarily a guarantee of quality across a controller.

 

I haven't had the pleasure of trying newer Xbox controllers - nothing more recent than the 360 ones, at least. I have had more random problems in the past, like a dead X button on an old DualSense, and drift on my Vita thumbstick of all things (that one at least fixed itself!) Meanwhile, my original DualShock 4 (from the PS4 I bought in 2014) still seems fine aside from some worn stick rubber - I keep it close by for things like PC twin-stick indie games.

 

1 hour ago, Nate Dogg III said:

I'm never spending big on a controller again, such a false economy. These things should come with 10-year warranties.

 

I'd get a new fighting game controller if I actually played fighting games as much as I used to. I'm still waiting on people to announce new pads to coincide with SFVI or something.  

[Alex W.]

I would’ve thought that Sony and MS and Nintendo would be in a race to be the first to get Hall effect sticks in to their pads, but if they’re not even in boutique luxury controllers then surely cost and volume aren’t holding them back. What’s the issue?

[thesnwmn]

2 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

I would’ve thought that Sony and MS and Nintendo would be in a race to be the first to get Hall effect sticks in to their pads, but if they’re not even in boutique luxury controllers then surely cost and volume aren’t holding them back. What’s the issue?

 

Not having them makes people buy new pads more often which makes these companies more money.

 

No one is not buying their consoles or pads because of this shit. And I suspect their market research shows it doesn't win them more of the market if they add it.

[Ry]

I might at be the only person to have never experienced stick drift. 

 

I went through the generations of OG Xbox,360,PS3, Xbox One, Xbox series using the bundled controller, on launch day without any issues.

 

Cue my controllers all failing within the week. 

[joffocakes]

If you want to spend even more money for whatever reason then the Brook Wingman XB2 could replace you official dongle and will let you use a wide range of controllers wired or wireless on Xbox Series or PC with minimal latency.

 

They used them for the recent Capcom Cup tournament as it allows for hot-swapping of controllers on PC without the frustration of driver updates, lack of native support etc.

[Alex W.]

Not going to sell too many pads when people expect them to be disposable. For one brief shining moment we had a PS2, multi-tap and 4 Dual Shock/2 pads, but I already regret bothering to get a spare set of Joy-Cons and I’m going to defer getting a spare pad for my next console as long as possible.

[Benny]

I have a battered old Xbox 360 wired controller that I use for anything PC related that needs the basic pad input. It's been dropped, trodden on, kicked, thrown (not by me), smeared in pizza grease and otherwise abused, and it's STILL working fine after probably tens of thousands of hours of use.

 

They don't make them like that any more.

[Down by Law]

 

2 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

I would’ve thought that Sony and MS and Nintendo would be in a race to be the first to get Hall effect sticks in to their pads, but if they’re not even in boutique luxury controllers then surely cost and volume aren’t holding them back. What’s the issue?

 

Why would they want to include parts that last a lifetime when they can sell overpriced shit controllers multiple times to the same people?

 

Meanwhile my Nights Analog Saturn Pad from 1996 still works fine and the only faulty Dreamcast sticks I've seen are when the stem has been physically broken by it being hurled into a wall, likely after a heated game of Virtua Tennis or something.

 

The shit that really grates my fucking cheese is PS4 controllers being locked out on PS5 games. It's some serious anti consumer bullshit, like do I really need a Dual Sense to play fucking Alex Kidd and Turtles? Nope not allowed, you need multiple £60 controllers for that with rubbish d-pads despite there being absolutely nothing wrong with the expensive fight sticks and controllers I've already purchased. Fuck off. 

 

[Gotters]

Its also like banks and fraud to some extent, you only do something better when the cost of the issue is greater than the cost of the solution. 

[Uzi]

3 minutes ago, Down by Law said:

 

 

Why would they want to include parts that last a lifetime when they can sell overpriced shit controllers multiple times to the same people?

 

Meanwhile my Nights Analog Saturn Pad from 1996 still works fine and the only faulty Dreamcast sticks I've seen are when the stem has been physically broken by it being hurled into a wall, likely after a heated game of Virtua Tennis or something.

 

The shit that really grates my fucking cheese is PS4 controllers being locked out on PS5 games. It's some serious anti consumer bullshit, like do I really need a Dual Sense to play fucking Alex Kidd and Turtles? Nope not allowed, you need multiple £60 controllers for that with rubbish d-pads despite there being absolutely nothing wrong with the expensive fight sticks and controllers I've already purchased. Fuck off. 

 

 

Funnily enough its because sega used hall affect sticks for the dreamcast pad

[Alex W.]

2 minutes ago, Down by Law said:

 

 

Why would they want to include parts that last a lifetime when they can sell overpriced shit controllers multiple times to the same people?

 

 

There are better ways to do that surely. I would probably own all 8 different “main” joy-con colours if they were remotely reliable just because they’re all nice to look at. You used to be able to get Dual Shocks in like 20 transparent shades.
 

All they’re selling me now is resentment.

[Timmo]

8 minutes ago, Benny said:

I have a battered old Xbox 360 wired controller that I use for anything PC related that needs the basic pad input. It's been dropped, trodden on, kicked, thrown (not by me), smeared in pizza grease and otherwise abused, and it's STILL working fine after probably tens of thousands of hours of use.

 

They don't make them like that any more.

One of the worst for it, I think I got through about six of those!

[Shimmyhill]

56 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

I switched to a PS5 controller on PC because I went though a bunch of Xbox ones, it’s nice (and the revision ones that apparently fix the stick drift) but the main problem is support, both Hi Fi Rush and Hot Wheels Unleashed recently just don’t recognise it, and I don’t exactly want to play either title on keyboard and mouse.

 

Hot Wheels supports PS4 controllers but not PS5 and Hi Fi Rush is Xbox only, that still seems to be the default on PC.

 

They use the same part as Xbox so will have the same issues

 

One of my current pads succumbed to stick drift, my custom Xbox pad but luckily just in warranty and MS sent me a new pad so other than it shouldn’t fucking happen I guess thats ok… no use when outside of warranty of course. PS4 pads, fuck me - I had so may of them fail for various reasons inc stick drift, they make Switch pads seem reliable…

 

I didnt use an Xbox one or my current PS5 pads enough to compare but assume they are equally as prone as everyone says.

 

In conclusion, all current pads are shit - Saturn and Dreamcast pads had the right tech and for whatever reason my 360 pads always lasted but got hammered.