Xbox Developer_Direct on the 25th of January

[JPL]

21 minutes ago, Broker said:

The nature of the industry is that you never really hear very much until years later. Given that Spencer is prone to doing things like going on about how important multi platform is and then buying Bethesda and making Stargell exclusive, I’m really not as sold on his “your mate Phil in a Battletoads shirt” image as a lot of fans seem to be. I think that his biggest success since taking over has been a very successful marketing campaign of himself and the Xbox brand. Really, since he’s taken over the rate of game releases has cratered and the big ones that have come out have had a very mixed reception.

 

Again, this could be because he’s giving the studios way more freedom and they’re crafting amazing games that are taking a bit longer and not getting cancelled, or it could be that Microsoft are mismanaging the studios. We’ve certainly had less high profile cancellations in recent years. But I suppose what I’m suggesting is that the kind of management that tanked Fable Legends, Scalebound, Knoxville and others might not be as gone as Xbox PR wants us all to think it is. Whatever has changed under Spencer, it certainly hasn’t resulted in a lot of great triple A games that are making the Xbox a must buy. 

I agree. There's definitely something wrong behind the scenes. We've heard all the excuses by now; Covid, post-covid, new devs taking time to get up to speed, etc, etc. But as time's ticking away, Sony are managing to get plenty of AAA games out of the door, so none of it really rings true to me.

 

It's a tough one for me, as I really like the Xbox ecosystem. I prefer the console, the UI, the pad, Gamepass, cloud gaming, etc to Sony's offering, but without the games it's all for nothing. I'll give them more time, as I'm going through a bit of a gaming lull at the moment anyway, but if Sony had a better looking console out I'd be all over it. I just hope this is the year the games finally start to come. We'll see.

[Flanders]

1 hour ago, Broker said:

The nature of the industry is that you never really hear very much until years later. Given that Spencer is prone to doing things like going on about how important multi platform is and then buying Bethesda and making Stargell exclusive, I’m really not as sold on his “your mate Phil in a Battletoads shirt” image as a lot of fans seem to be. I think that his biggest success since taking over has been a very successful marketing campaign of himself and the Xbox brand. Really, since he’s taken over the rate of game releases has cratered and the big ones that have come out have had a very mixed reception.

 

Again, this could be because he’s giving the studios way more freedom and they’re crafting amazing games that are taking a bit longer and not getting cancelled, or it could be that Microsoft are mismanaging the studios. We’ve certainly had less high profile cancellations in recent years. But I suppose what I’m suggesting is that the kind of management that tanked Fable Legends, Scalebound, Knoxville and others might not be as gone as Xbox PR wants us all to think it is. Whatever has changed under Spencer, it certainly hasn’t resulted in a lot of great triple A games that are making the Xbox a must buy. 

I mean, during all those cancellations the person who was running Microsoft Studios - aka the game development part of the Xbox business - was…Phil Spencer. 
 

The guy is clearly very good at business strategy and marketing, but he might just be not very good at getting video games made. 

[K]

Once again, another videogame company succumbs to the curse of having a senior executive called Phil.

[Majora]

Are people really still banging on about Scalebound? It wasn't a first party title and in recent years even Kamiya has basically admitted that it just wasn't turning out well. As Platinum aren't a first party studio I'm struggling to see how its cancellation has anything to do with Microsoft studio mismanagement. They just saw that Platinum weren't delivering and pulled the plug. The timing of it, when Microsoft were in the process of gutting their first party studios, was unfortunate as it meant they took all the flak for it.

 

Also, lol at people comparing this to the amount of games in a Nintendo Direct which are routinely filled with complete and utter guff and ancient ports. If Microsoft wanted to fill this up with third party titles and indie games I'm sure they could but they've chosen instead to have a focused look at first party titles releasing in the coming months instead of padding it out with DLC, farming sims and loads of budget JRPGs no-one gives a fuck about.

[Haribokart]

Phil Spencer is the king of bullshit, he has perfected 'say what they want to hear' as well as nice guy self promotion and it shocks me that so many still fall for it after being lied to for so long. Gamepass is a decent service that saved the borderline dead (and deservedly so because since the second half of the once outstanding 360's life it had consistently been so mismanaged the brand became a complete joke and this is coming from me who was the biggest fanboy of the first two MS consoles out there) Xbox, but only did so because they borderline gave the service away. Were it not for all the easy point/redeeming offers and bargain priced subs to GP the service would have had significantly less interest - we are talking way less then half the people that are into it now. Xbox wouldn't have survived this generation without having to almost give away the only thing that enticed 99% of current owners to it, that was the real genius thing Phil did if it was even his decision.

 

This will be another fluff/filler event like they always are.

[JPL]

21 minutes ago, Haribokart said:

This will be another fluff/filler event like they always are.

I think they’re giving release dates for the 4 games they’re showing, so hopefully it’s not as much fluff as we usually get.

[Haribokart]

Just now, JPL said:

I think they’re giving release dates for the 4 games they’re showing, so hopefully it’s not as much fluff as we usually get.

 

[bear]

From what I can see online there are going to be three games in the Xbox show which is going to be followed by a Bethesda Online Studios show where they'll introduce updates for one of their games, presumably Elder Scrolls Online. 

 

The Xbox show looks like it'll be 10-15 minutes each on Redfall, Forza and Minecraft Legends. 

[JPL]

17 minutes ago, Haribokart said:

 

😂

[Oh Danny Boy]

22 hours ago, Wiper said:

In case anybody doesn't actually know, Cal is happily tiptoeing around the fact that those ~20 game Directs are primarily (or solely, in the case of Indie Directs) filled with third-party, generally multi-plat games. Most Directs include a much smaller number of Nintendo games (or none, in the case of the *spits* Mario Movie direct), with a single headline Nintendo title (often, specifically, an update of expansion for an existing one) as primary focus.

 

That's not a criticism of Nintendo's output, mind; there are a lot of Directs over the course of a year, and there have been an awful lot of great games since Breath of the Wild, so plenty to catch up on if you've been away from the system since then!

Can certainly criticise it, it’s been absolutely dire for a first party developer/publisher. MS is just taking a leaf from the Nintendo book of success, don’t release games! Fable 4 is like MS’s Metroid Prime 4. Spoken about for so long, teased many years ago, original devs have moved on and I’m still waiting for a sign of life. 

[Broker]

8 hours ago, JPL said:

I agree. There's definitely something wrong behind the scenes. We've heard all the excuses by now; Covid, post-covid, new devs taking time to get up to speed, etc, etc. But as time's ticking away, Sony are managing to get plenty of AAA games out of the door, so none of it really rings true to me.

 

It's a tough one for me, as I really like the Xbox ecosystem. I prefer the console, the UI, the pad, Gamepass, cloud gaming, etc to Sony's offering, but without the games it's all for nothing. I'll give them more time, as I'm going through a bit of a gaming lull at the moment anyway, but if Sony had a better looking console out I'd be all over it. I just hope this is the year the games finally start to come. We'll see.

Yeah agreed. I much prefer actually using my Xbox, the interface is better (except the store) and I often find myself turning it on, looking for something to play, then either defaulting to old games through BC or Gamepass or ending up sticking on whatever new thing I’m playing on PS5 or switch. 

 

7 hours ago, Flanders said:

I mean, during all those cancellations the person who was running Microsoft Studios - aka the game development part of the Xbox business - was…Phil Spencer. 
 

The guy is clearly very good at business strategy and marketing, but he might just be not very good at getting video games made. 

Yeah I forgot about that. 

 

7 hours ago, K said:

Once again, another videogame company succumbs to the curse of having a senior executive called Phil.

In fairness, during the last era of big cancellations they also had the walking curse of Phil Harrison working there. Right before he went off to kill stadia. 

 

6 hours ago, Majora said:

Are people really still banging on about Scalebound? It wasn't a first party title and in recent years even Kamiya has basically admitted that it just wasn't turning out well. As Platinum aren't a first party studio I'm struggling to see how its cancellation has anything to do with Microsoft studio mismanagement. They just saw that Platinum weren't delivering and pulled the plug. The timing of it, when Microsoft were in the process of gutting their first party studios, was unfortunate as it meant they took all the flak for it.

 

Also, lol at people comparing this to the amount of games in a Nintendo Direct which are routinely filled with complete and utter guff and ancient ports. If Microsoft wanted to fill this up with third party titles and indie games I'm sure they could but they've chosen instead to have a focused look at first party titles releasing in the coming months instead of padding it out with DLC, farming sims and loads of budget JRPGs no-one gives a fuck about.

The point with Scalebound is that it had a fantastic team, and with more time and support could have become something as special as Bayonetta, and totally unique for Xbox, as well as pretty unusual for the industry in general. But instead it’s got to have multiplayer forced in (at the insistence of the Microsoft execs who apparently had nothing to do with it), then it stalls and is cancelled. Again, it’s part of a pattern of MS management who know fuck all about game dev shoving in garbage then blaming the devs for the game being shit. The stories about Lionhead dealing with their arsehole marketing department during the development of fable 2 and 3 are incredibly depressing.

 

Also I’d take a classic JRPG port over yet another franchise that was pretty bland 15 years ago getting another identical sequel. Or whatever embarrassing garbage Redfall is. 

[LaveDisco]

I've not had GamePass for two months now, and instead I bought Pentiment for the Steam Deck for £11 (which it's far better suited for). I'll hop back on soon, but I miss the glory days of the 360. The Arcade was a real event, buzz, excitement, great games. Multiple amazing Halos, Exclusive JRPGs, Bonkers Arcade Racers - Outrun Arcade. MS can be brilliant. But I don't think buying up more stuff to mismanage is the way out of the current doldrums.

 

My gut feeling is they really need a big budget narrative single player success like they had with the original Halo's.

 

The rumours match my impression that MS spend so long reacting to trends that not only do they fail to get things out of the door, but crucially they forget that there was a time when they were the ones making the trends.

 

Don't give us what we want, tell us what we want.

 

 

[bear]

51 minutes ago, Broker said:

Yeah agreed. I much prefer actually using my Xbox, the interface is better (except the store) and I often find myself turning it on,

 

At the risk of taking this thread off on a tangent, what's wrong with the store? Ever since they redesigned late in the Xboxone era I'd have been confident saying it's one of the areas where they're better than what Sony and Nintendo are offering. 

[Broker]

2 minutes ago, bear said:

 

At the risk of taking this thread off on a tangent, what's wrong with the store? Ever since they redesigned late in the Xboxone era I'd have been confident saying it's one of the areas where they're better than what Sony and Nintendo are offering. 

It’s very slow for me. The rest of the series interface is snappy and I find to be well laid out and easy to navigate. The store is certainly laid out better than the PlayStation one but it is slow and constantly seems to be taking a second to think about things, which is annoying.

[Sarlaccfood]

1 hour ago, LaveDisco said:

Don't give us what we want, tell us what we want.

Whoever is in charge of gamepass should be put in charge of the whole thing. That person (or team) seem to have a great eye for curation.

[footle]

1 hour ago, Broker said:

It’s very slow for me. The rest of the series interface is snappy and I find to be well laid out and easy to navigate. The store is certainly laid out better than the PlayStation one but it is slow and constantly seems to be taking a second to think about things, which is annoying.

relative to the PlayStation store, where they’ll sell you things you already have access to (hello Resogun) or pretend you have access to things you don’t, the Switch and Xbox stores are works of consumer friendly UX.

it doesn’t matter how slow they are if they’re not trying to scam you.

 

(well it does matter how slow, but I’d suggest consumer protection agencies should be involved in looking at PSN, which isn’t something I’d say about the other two)

[mushashi]

On 10/01/2023 at 13:02, MidWalian said:

I'm still enjoying game pass but surprised about how MS struggles with their own first party content after having so many studios. We may get an odd situation where a huge amount of titles will be ready be released in the same year.

 

At which point they'd have spunked their load all at once and back to fuckall notable releases for another 5-7 year dev cycle.

 

Unless they've decided to be stupid, they should eventually be on track for their one release every 3 month game plan, which I suppose they sort of are getting to. Unfortunately, what they are currently releasing doesn't seem to please their (potential) customer base much in general.

[Stanley]

23 hours ago, Sarlaccfood said:

Whoever is in charge of gamepass should be put in charge of the whole thing. That person (or team) seem to have a great eye for curation.

Bang on, it’s superb. 

[layten]

Didn't Kamiya literally publicly apologise for messing up with Scalebound?

[MidWalian]

1 hour ago, layten said:

Didn't Kamiya literally publicly apologise for messing up with Scalebound?

 

Platinum struggled with using UE4 and developing a game with online features.

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/platinumgames-director-hideki-kamiya-apologises-to-microsoft-for-scalebound-cancellation

 

Phil on the matter:

 

Quote

"I regret we were as public about what we tried to go do. I did some learning around Fable Legends and Scalebound about being public about things before I know we have a real, believable plan that I can hold in my hands and know was going to be there. And we just didn't get there with Scalebound and the team. And I say that about both teams.

 

Kamiya would like another shot at it now though. Anyone?

 

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/platinum-says-it-wants-to-talk-to-xbox-about-scalebound-phil-lets-do-it/

 

[RubberJohnny]

They basically put all the Scalebound ideas in Bayonetta 3, and they were absolutely shite and tanked the game. I really don't think we missed anything with that one.

[Broker]

Schreier is reporting layoffs at Bethesda ad 343. Sounds like it’s much worse at 343 than Bethesda.

 

I’m sure this will help then get more triple A games out.

 

 

 

[MidWalian]

343 has been a mess for quite some time and using limited contracted workers didn't help. Not a problem exclusive to Microsoft but they are a good example of it. 

 

 

[Stanley]

Their flagship title deserves better than this, makes you wonder just what’s going on at all the other studios too with all these absent games. 

[Darren]

28 minutes ago, MidWalian said:

343 has been a mess for quite some time and using limited contracted workers didn't help. Not a problem exclusive to Microsoft but they are a good example of it. 

 

 

On the basis of this tweet alone, this seems like management failure in 343. I can understand any independent studio having a culture of using contractors because they work project to project and don’t want a large permanent workforce with no guarantee of future work. But once you’re bought by a huge corporation, especially one with a “no contractors over 18 months” rule then surely it’s time to offer the majority of those contractors permanent roles? It’s not like MS would just turn round and make them all redunda- oh.

[MidWalian]

23 hours ago, Stanley said:

Their flagship title deserves better than this, makes you wonder just what’s going on at all the other studios too with all these absent games. 

 

To me it does seem like a combination of being badly organised and made worse by announcing some tiles too soon. Were Fable and Perfect Dark that far ahead in development before CGI trailers? I lose track. 

 

The Coalition and Arkane are using UE5 which will hopefully reduce some of the issues 343 faced.

 

4 days to go for more game footage! Meanwhile,  giving Monster Hunter a shot on my series s.

 

I'm a bit concerned about Redfall, love Arkane though.

[footle]

On 20/01/2023 at 14:48, Darren said:

On the basis of this tweet alone, this seems like management failure in 343. I can understand any independent studio having a culture of using contractors because they work project to project and don’t want a large permanent workforce with no guarantee of future work. But once you’re bought by a huge corporation, especially one with a “no contractors over 18 months” rule then surely it’s time to offer the majority of those contractors permanent roles? It’s not like MS would just turn round and make them all redunda- oh.

they weren’t bought by Microsoft. They were set up by Microsoft. It’s all on Microsoft’s policies

[MidWalian]

We've reached the point where 343 needs to announce that they will continue making Halo games.

 

[Strafe]

On 15/01/2023 at 09:52, RubberJohnny said:

They basically put all the Scalebound ideas in Bayonetta 3, and they were absolutely shite and tanked the game

Lies!

[Strafe]

On 13/01/2023 at 18:38, Sarlaccfood said:

Whoever is in charge of gamepass should be put in charge of the whole thing. That person (or team) seem to have a great eye for curation.

The person in charge of gamepass should stay in charge of gamepass.

 

MS want to get someone with proven experience of successfully managing multiple game studios into shipping games, not use a guy who sets up licensing deals.