Will you cancel Netflix if they stop Password Sharing?

[Clipper]

That would be stupid. Stopping people using their account on holiday etc is a pretty shitty thing to do.

[Hitcher]

Or on the move.

[Jammy]

Spotify do it reasonably well with the family account which gives you four (I think) separate logins for a few extra quid. My daughter is the only other one who uses Netflix other than us on our main telly, and she’s recently moved away to uni. Although maybe the spotify thing might strictly be for same house too.

[Mike]

I’d cancel I think, my parents and brother use mine, both have IPTV with Movies and Series on too, so we’d switch to that; it’s just not as easy for the kids to use then.  Though they only watch Mr Bean and Paddington, so they’ll cope. 

[instasis]

11 hours ago, gone fishin said:

I’m not sure it’s as simple as them blocking you sharing your password, I’m sure I read the new method stated that it was based on sharing your password between “households”, which basically locks down your Netflix account to your current home IP address. You could only change your location a few times a year, meaning you couldn’t stream when staying in a hotel room, for example, because that would be considered “a different household”.

 

10 hours ago, Clipper said:

That would be stupid. Stopping people using their account on holiday etc is a pretty shitty thing to do.

 

8 hours ago, Jammy said:

Spotify do it reasonably well with the family account which gives you four (I think) separate logins for a few extra quid. My daughter is the only other one who uses Netflix other than us on our main telly, and she’s recently moved away to uni. Although maybe the spotify thing might strictly be for same house too.

 

I posted a link a few posts back. What they rolled out in Latin America was:

 

- some kind of mechanism to identify if you are not in the household (likely IP based)

- a verification code that goes to the account owner which is valid for 15 mins, which will need to be entered if you are deemed to be not in the household

- the option to remove that code for [whatever accounts are identified] in return for a fee that's slightly less than a full subscription

 

It seems like a neat compromise. Add friction to the experience but don't block it completely, and provide a simple mechanism to remove it which isn't just a full block.

 

Spotify is the same deal on password sharing - their family account is same household only. I expect a lot of subscription services will watch what happens with whoever starts enforcing this very carefully, to see if the PR is so bad it outweighs the revenue benefits.

[gone fishin]

17 minutes ago, Pelekophoros said:

 

 

 

- the option to remove that code for [whatever accounts are identified] in return for a fee that's slightly less than a full subscription

 

I

 

This kind of sums of Netflix at the moment, they’re totally “nickel and diming” their subscribers. Want a 4K stream? Pay more money. Want to share with family? Pay more money (even then, slightly less than a full subscription). Adding the Ads subscription option just feels like the thin end of the wedge for ads eventually turning up in the higher subscription tiers. It involved a tech tie-up with Microsoft, I’d imagine MS haven’t done this for just the basic entry level subscriber tier (Don’t want any ads? Pay for the maximum premium option).

 

The problem though is that Disney+ and Prime don’t charge more for 4K (or even Enhanced IMAX) and you know what? The actual content is significantly better on both of those services compared to Netflix. Netflix just feel like they’re trying to keep afloat, they can’t make decent original content and therefore aren’t getting the number of new subscribers they need, so now they’re just squeezing the existing subscribers for more money. I’m not sure that tactic is going to work. 

[instasis]

1 minute ago, gone fishin said:

 

This kind of sums of Netflix at the moment, they’re totally “nickel and diming” their subscribers. Want a 4K stream? Pay more money. Want to share with family? Pay more money (even then, slightly less than a full subscription). Adding the Ads subscription option just feels like the thin end of the wedge for ads eventually turning up in the higher subscription tiers. (Don’t want any ads? Pay for the maximum premium option).

 

The problem though is that Disney+ and Prime don’t charge more for 4K (or even Enhanced IMAX) and you know what? The actual content is significantly better on both of those services compared to Netflix. Netflix just feel like they’re trying to keep afloat, they can’t make decent original content and therefore aren’t getting the number of new subscribers they need, so now they’re just squeezing the existing subscribers for more money. I’m not sure that tactic is going to work. 

 

I think there are multiple arguments in there, all conflating into one. That said, I don't disagree with any of them.

 

Pays your money or don't. Simple as, really. 

[Hitcher]

27 minutes ago, Pelekophoros said:

a verification code that goes to the account owner which is valid for 15 mins, which will need to be entered if you are deemed to be not in the household

Every time it's used or a one off?

[Camel]

We don’t password share at all. If I’m going to have to start entering codes or ponying up more cash just so my daughter can watch Peppa Pig when we’re out, I can see me just cancelling.

[Art Vandelay]

Netflix does seem to specialise in the sort of fodder ITV4 churns out of an evening you might stick with if you’re flicking through. We keep it but it’s just a Sunny and Brooklyn 99 streaming service a lot of the time so for that it’s stupidly expensive. Why it has about four pre-1960s films is beyond me, presumably no-one watches them.

[tenrou]

The problem is that netflix don't provide enough new content to justify their efforts here.  The price has jumped 2 quid in 2 years and there is very little new good content to justify that increase.  Any further friction from them and it'll be cancelled.

[instasis]

1 hour ago, Hitcher said:

Every time it's used or a one off?

 

Its not a one off. Whenever the system concludes it's a none household member.

[instasis]

1 hour ago, Camel said:

We don’t password share at all. If I’m going to have to start entering codes or ponying up more cash just so my daughter can watch Peppa Pig when we’re out, I can see me just cancelling.

 

I would hope it's IP based, but also with some level of intelligence behind it.

 

I.e. the past 10 logins for these 3 profiles have been persistently on the same IP, so the second profile gets a pass when it goes somewhere else. This fourth profile is always somewhere else. We're going to challenge them.

[Hawklord]

If you take the price of the bottom tier in the UK (£11, no ads) and presume it's roughly the same world wide (on average and for arguments sake) and see that they have 231 million subs then that's revenue of £2.5 billion per month or just under £30.5 billion per year*

 

*back of fag packet sums

[Fry Crayola]

It's more likely the UK is one of the more expensive places in the world for subs. 

[BossSaru]

6 hours ago, Pelekophoros said:

It seems like a neat compromise. Add friction to the experience but don't block it completely, and provide a simple mechanism to remove it which isn't just a full block.

 

This is the problem for me. Additional friction penalises the customer, but will simply motivate others to find another workaround. It's like the unskippable 'you wouldn't steal a car' DVD adverts, effectively worsening the experience for genuine customers while pirated videos simply removed the ad.

 

I expect that piracy dropped as streaming services offered an affordable and simple alternative to Kodi, torrenting, and the like. But those options remain available and become more attractive if Netflix add authentication policies, making a simple streaming service more bureaucratic.

 

Services should be looking to demonstrate the value of their offering, not throwing barriers in the way of viewing that will likely frustrate loyal customers.

[instasis]

13 minutes ago, BossSaru said:

 

This is the problem for me. Additional friction penalises the customer, but will simply motivate others to find another workaround. It's like the unskippable 'you wouldn't steal a car' DVD adverts, effectively worsening the experience for genuine customers while pirated videos simply removed the ad.

 

I expect that piracy dropped as streaming services offered an affordable and simple alternative to Kodi, torrenting, and the like. But those options remain available and become more attractive if Netflix add authentication policies, making a simple streaming service more bureaucratic.

 

Services should be looking to demonstrate the value of their offering, not throwing barriers in the way of viewing that will likely frustrate loyal customers.

 

They're literally piggy backing on someone else's sub. They are not this.

[BossSaru]

In practical terms, Netflix would potentially be looking to impose these restrictions on hundreds of millions of accounts:

Quote

Netflix will enforce password sharing rules through IP addresses, device IDs, and account activity

...

An estimated 222 million paying households share passwords with an additional 100 million households that Netflix wants to monetize.

 

Given the scale, and the variations between households and their behaviours, it just seems likely that quite a few customers will fall between the cracks and end up getting blocked from accessing the service.

 

If not, then great, but are there any examples of verification systems which are both effective while not impacting on the experience of the loyal customer base?

[Stoppy2000]

This thread just reminded me to cancel my subscription. Have barely used it this year so it's about time I got around to it. 

[Vespa Alex]

Most people will be using a mobile app or media player rather than a browser, so it’s easier to validate that than just an IP address. 

 

Getting this right will be a huge challenge, but I understand why they need to try. 
 

[Wizcat]

From that article it sounds like it's 'device' (likely MAC address) and IP address based. So once you've (eg) authenticated your phone then it's probably good to roam around on various 5G IP addresses for a while, so long as it periodically also logs in from your 'home' IP address.  (and also considering even your home IP address is most likely not static, but changes periodically)

 

I suppose if you have a second (or nth) device that never logs in to the same ip address as your 'home' network, then it's going to be problematic. Maybe requiring a 2FA style auth more and more frequently?

 

Sounds feasible from a technical point of view, but a bit of a faff with false positives being annoying, particularly if you're away from home for a while.

 

[Hitcher]

 

[dumpster]

On 31/12/2022 at 17:23, Pelekophoros said:

 

They're literally piggy backing on someone else's sub. They are not this.

Depends.  Me and my sister pay half each because neither of us really watches it that much.  I was watching Better Call Saul, she was mainly keeping it for the kids.  There are so many alternatives that if Netflix makes us both pay full price I'll just cancel, and my sister will surely cancel it and get Disney Plus.  

 

I think the password sharing was one of those undocumented features, just about everyone I know shares with family or friends. I think Netflix underestimate how many users subscribe because it's easy to share. During a cost of living crisis etc, people need to watch the pennies.

[instasis]

It's less undocumented and more actively promoted, as per the post before yours.

 

Ultimately, the entire argument boils down to "a bunch of people got it for cheaper than list price, and now they might have to pay a bit more, it's not fair".

 

And I...I dunno. Like, yeah? We have this entire same discussion going on in the XBGP thread, but the solution is people panic buying 3 years worth of subs to keep it cheap.

 

The entire subs market is changing and has changed, and is now outrageously competitive. I think it's all going to shift in the next 24 months, and all of it in a very anti consumer direction.

[mushashi]

On 31/12/2022 at 11:52, tenrou said:

The problem is that netflix don't provide enough new content to justify their efforts here.  The price has jumped 2 quid in 2 years and there is very little new good content to justify that increase.  Any further friction from them and it'll be cancelled.

 

Which is highly funny considering Netflix create more new content than all the other streaming services combined at the moment, shame most of it is carp.

 

 

[Art Vandelay]

Whenever I’ve used Now TV for sport it has a very twitchy verification process that involves you downloading a desktop app launcher thingy which invariably involves you logging in and out a few times. It’s an absolute arse ache when you’re trying to make kick-off and probably a worse experience than finding a dodgy stream. It’s like when the torrent platforms had infinitely better interfaces than the legal alternatives for years which isn’t really how things should work. No-one actually loves Netflix, they just have it. I honestly don’t think it would take much for a lot of people to get shot of it, be that further price increases or a faffy login process.

[footle]

18 hours ago, Pelekophoros said:

It's less undocumented and more actively promoted, as per the post before yours.

 

Ultimately, the entire argument boils down to "a bunch of people got it for cheaper than list price, and now they might have to pay a bit more, it's not fair".

 

And I...I dunno. Like, yeah? We have this entire same discussion going on in the XBGP thread, but the solution is people panic buying 3 years worth of subs to keep it cheap.

 

The entire subs market is changing and has changed, and is now outrageously competitive. I think it's all going to shift in the next 24 months, and all of it in a very anti consumer direction.

the land grab is over. I’m not sure “actively promoted in 2017” counts for much in 2022.

(As will the xbgp thing - I suspect it mysteriously expires just after starfield comes out)

[TehStu]

Normalize cancelling subscriptions. I dunno what else to tell you.

[Hitcher]

Quote

 

The Netflix Password Sharing Crackdown Is About To Begin

 

 

Netflix is poised to crack down on password sharing outside of households, the online streaming giant has confirmed.

Announcing its Q4 results, Netflix said it will roll out a paid option for those who want to share their accounts. “Today’s widespread account sharing (100M+ households) undermines our long-term ability to invest in and improve Netflix, as well as build our business,” Netflix said in a shareholder letter.

“While our terms of use limit use of Netflix to a household, we recognize this is a change for members who share their account more broadly. As we roll out paid sharing, members in many countries will also have the option to pay extra if they want to share Netflix with people they don’t live with.”

The Netflix password crackdown starts in March

 

Netflix announced plans to crack down on password sharing late last year, but it didn’t provide a firm date for it to begin. While a date still isn’t confirmed, Netflix specified the password sharing measures will come in later in the first quarter of this year, which would suggest you can expect them to be in place by the end of March. There is no news on how much the password sharing Netflix option will cost, but it is offered in some markets for $3, so it’s going to be a lot cheaper than buying two accounts.

As I wrote previously, when Netflix does start to crack down on password sharing, it will be able to tell if you try to carry on doing so. Netflix collects vast amounts of user data and password sharing can be detected via IP addresses, device IDs and account activity.

The streaming giant seems determined—Netflix concedes that learning from experience in Latin America, where it has rolled out paid sharing, there will be “some cancel reaction in each market”, which will impact near-term member growth. “But as borrower households begin to activate their own standalone accounts and extra member accounts are added, we expect to see improved overall revenue, which is our goal with all plan and pricing changes,” it said.

 

 

 

The Netflix ad-supported option

Netflix launched an ad-supported tier last year, but it hasn’t been that popular so far. Netflix said it believes branded television advertising is “a substantial long-term incremental revenue and profit opportunity for Netflix”, adding that its “ability to stand up this business in six months underscores our commitment both to give members more choice and to reaccelerate our growth.”

 

“While it’s still early days for ads and we have lots to do (in particular better targeting and measurement), we are pleased with our progress to date across every dimension: member experience, value to advertisers, and incremental contribution to our business,” Netflix said. “Engagement, which is consistent with members on comparable ad-free plans, is better than what we had expected and we believe the lower price point is driving incremental membership growth.”

Netflix said the reaction to the launch from both consumers and advertisers has “confirmed our belief that our ad-supported plan has strong unit economics (at minimum, in-line with or better than the comparable ad-free plan) and will generate incremental revenue and profit.”

It concedes that impact on 2023 will be modest “given that this will build slowly over time.”

 

It is facing tough competition from rivals, but Netflix said its Q4 content outperformed expectations: Wednesday was its third most popular series ever; Harry & Meghan the second most popular documentary series; Troll its most popular non-English film; and Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery was its fourth most popular film.

Netflix also announced CEO Reed Hastings would step down after 25 years at the helm. Ted Sarandos and Greg Peters are now co-CEOs of Netflix, with Reed Hastings staying on as executive chairman.

 

 

[Tony]

I don't share a password on Netflix but I do use a VPN to watch from different regions. I guess that will probably be the end of that.