What's the most impressive emulation you have seen?

[Colonel Panic]

@Fry Crayola 

 

PS1 support on the PS2 wasn't entirely native. https://freelansations.medium.com/the-story-of-the-ps2s-backwards-compatibility-from-the-engineer-who-built-it-ec39cf5a0353

[dataDave]

4 hours ago, MW_Jimmy said:

There are plenty of players online but they do tend to be higher levels so if you want to team up once you have the hang of things let me know!

 

Which Ship are you on?

 

Ah, I thought they were servers/realms, they're just lobbies.

[MW_Jimmy]

2 hours ago, dataDave said:

 

Which Ship are you on?

 

Sounds like you are set-up! Any ship is fine to select you aren't tied in. (I don't know why they have multiple ones - everyone tends to just play on the first one listed.)

[Protocol Penguin]

On 14/11/2022 at 21:48, dataDave said:

MiSTer.

 

After 25 years of fucking around with emulation that's a very easy answer. The amount of "tinkering" required to get one set up and configured is massively exaggerated, compared to say RetroArch or Raspberry Pi or pretty much anything else.

Even I managed to build a MiSTer from scratch and get it fully working. It’s not difficult at all, on the grand scheme of things, and the quality of emulation you get from the machine is incredible.

 

 

.

[SeanR]

I once ran a spectrum emulator on an Atari st emulator on a pc.

[PikaStu]

8 hours ago, SeanR said:

I once ran a spectrum emulator on an Atari st emulator on a pc.

You need to run Doom on that Spectrum emulator

[partious]

I have a mister and it’s excellent but I feel like the discussion surrounding it always comes with the false implication that there is some major perceptible difference in the gameplay experience vs software emulation on a decent modern device (which is also excellent and not laggy, inconvenient, complex to set up etc etc).
 

My most impressive emulation experience was probably the day I discovered MAME back in the day. Also I feel like dolphin for GameCube on a good pc is the closest an emulator has come to making a console obsolete by offering a superior experience. 

[dataDave]

14 minutes ago, partious said:

I have a mister and it’s excellent but the hype surrounding it always comes with the false implication that there is some major perceptible difference in the gameplay experience vs software emulation on a decent modern device.

 

There isn't. But there are numerous minor differences which all add up.

 

I've spent more time playing old games on the MiSTer over the past 18 months than I ever did across 25 years of software emulation. A LOT more. That's the big deal for me. I'm glad I don't have to mess around with RetroArch settings anymore, having to compromise and balance varying degrees of noticeable input latency with a quality CRT-like shader output. Spending hours/days before just giving up. Then trying it all over again when a new feature like 'run-ahead' comes along, only to end up with a different set of compromises.

 

Most emulation issues are indeed display related, and come with playing on flat-panel technology. The MiSTer going into a CRT requires practically zero configuration. If you want optimal RetroTink-esque scaling and shaders on your 4K/HD set you need to be prepared to copy and paste a bunch of stuff some other boffins have already worked out for you. Emulation back on CRT monitors wasn't anywhere near as much of a headache.

[partious]

That’s fair enough and I’m doing my best not to come across like I’m saying mister is bad, because obviously it isn’t. I think it’s great and worth the money. I just think there’s often an implication that it’s some sort of night and day difference compared to modern software emulation and I think it’s worth sharing a dissenting opinion, especially since the mister is pretty hard/expensive to get hold of right now.  I think you have to already be somewhat far down the rabbit hole to appreciate the mister.
 

You don’t have to mess around with those retroarch settings to have a good experience beyond an initial setup that is no more complex than the mister ini setup. I think a raspberry pi 3 directly connected to a Crt via composite and running thousands of arcade games that a mister can’t via Final Burn is as impressive as a mister. Also costs a fraction of the price. The mister crt setup requires having a higher end crt, add on boards for the mister etc. The pi worked out of the box with a cheap composite cable. 

 

One area where I think mister shines compared to software emulation is home computers like C64 and Amiga. If those are someone’s main interest I’d strongly recommend a mister over the alternatives.

For consoles and arcade games I don’t think mister offers a massively better experience than software emulation but it wasn’t my intention to just come here and badmouth the mister, I guess I’m just curious what exactly people are finding so amazing about the mister experience vs modern emulators.

[K]

I think the most impressive thing I've seen is Xbox 360 backwards compatibility on Xbox One, in that they went from deliberately deciding not to have BC and not planning for it when designing the console and OS, to having a huge range of games available, some of which run better on Xbox One than they did on original hardware, all within the space of a few years. That was incredibly cool, and was a pretty significant factor in choosing whether to buy a PS5 or a Series X.

 

In terms of specific games, I've just got into PS2 emulation, and overclocking an emulated console can produce some phenomenal results. Global Defence Force looks spectacular at HD resolution, with a mostly solid 50fps frame rate. It was a budget game, but the city models they use are actually not bad for the era, especially given the size, draw distance, and sheer quantity of shit you can destroy. The vast number of enemies running around and the scale of the battles are also pretty cool by modern standards, let along for a budget PS2 game from nearly twenty years ago.

 

[Siri]

10 hours ago, SeanR said:

I once ran a spectrum emulator on an Atari st emulator on a pc.

 

Reminds me of trying to get Street Fighter Alpha Collection on PCSX2 - effectively CPS2 > PS2 > PC.

 

It fucking chugged on anything reasonably priced for an Intel CPU back then

[Kevvy Metal]

16 minutes ago, K said:

I think the most impressive thing I've seen is Xbox 360 backwards compatibility on Xbox One, in that they went from deliberately deciding not to have BC and not planning for it when designing the console and OS, to having a huge range of games available, some of which run better on Xbox One than they did on original hardware, all within the space of a few years. That was incredibly cool, and was a pretty significant factor in choosing whether to buy a PS5 or a Series X.

 

In terms of specific games, I've just got into PS2 emulation, and overclocking an emulated console can produce some phenomenal results. Global Defence Force looks spectacular at HD resolution, with a mostly solid 50fps frame rate. It was a budget game, but the city models they use are actually not bad for the era, especially given the size, draw distance, and sheer quantity of shit you can destroy. The vast number of enemies running around and the scale of the battles are also pretty cool by modern standards, let along for a budget PS2 game from nearly twenty years ago.

 

 

I know the semantics of "Emulation" can be interpreted as a general idea of one system masquarading as another by whatever means, but it's generally taken as meaning virtulisation of another system running on something completely different, and it then usually portable to run on different systems.  

360 on Xbone isn't like this at all. The barebones 360 "OS" that's running while you're playing the game is virtulised, but every single BC game running on XB1 is basically completely recompiled to run natively on the system. MS basically brute forced it by essentially doing new ports of every game that's entered the program, including a full testing and release phase. 

[partious]

PS1 on PS3 was pretty impressive from a consumer standpoint because Sony let you play any ps1 disc on a software emulator, which now seems to be something that it would be impossible for a console to allow for some reason (legalities?). 

Is there anything stopping Sony or MS putting software BC in a modern console to let you play every PS2/original Xbox disc aside from effort/lack of desire to do so? 

[Kevvy Metal]

1 minute ago, partious said:

PS1 on PS3 was pretty impressive because Sony let you play any ps1 disc on a software emulator which now seems to be something that it would be impossible for a console to allow for some reason (legalities?). 

Is there anything stopping Sony or MS putting software BC in a modern console to let you play every PS2/original Xbox disc aside from effort/lack of desire to do so?

 

It's also my understanding that There's no software emulation for PS1 games on PS3. The PS3 literally has a PS1 inside it, so all that functionality is just carried over. 
I find it to be a bit lacklustre though as the scaling creates a lot of lag. 

[partious]

2 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

It's also my understanding that There's no software emulation for PS1 games on PS3. The PS3 literally has a PS1 inside it, so all that functionality is just carried over. 
I find it to be a bit lacklustre though as the scaling creates a lot of lag. 

I thought the hardware was just for PS2 BC. Anything I’ve read over the years said PS1 was software emulation, but that could be mistaken.

[partious]

 I’ve always been impressed that the Wii U had the hardware to “emulate” (if mister is emulation this is too..) GameCube games (but not discs) perfectly but the only GameCube games you could officially play on the thing were two full price Zelda remasters, with console VC conveniently stopping at N64. Thanks Nintendo!

[Fry Crayola]

I recall that the PS1 was software emulated on the PS3. They already had the expertise with the PSP's emulator.

[Kevvy Metal]

2 hours ago, partious said:

I thought the hardware was just for PS2 BC. Anything I’ve read over the years said PS1 was software emulation, but that could be mistaken.

 

1 hour ago, Fry Crayola said:

I recall that the PS1 was software emulated on the PS3. They already had the expertise with the PSP's emulator.

 

Maybe that is the actual case, I'm not 100% certain. I was under the impression that the original BC for PS3 was all hardware solution, and they simply removed the PS2 hardware. But the fact that PS1 emu on PS3 matches PS1 on PSP so closely all makes sense it being a software solution ported between the two.

[LaveDisco]

After hating my Switch copy of the Monkey Ball remaster, seeing that the GC version could work perfectly on the SteamDeck was jaw dropping for me.

 

In my head, emulation is still only possible for 2D devices,

[milko]

A YodaXbox with like, everything on it. Also where I first realised that having access to everything isn't always great as the choice paralysis is real.

[Gotters]

The most impressed i've been with emulation isn't a specific emulator but the whole package of emulation using Emudeck on the Steam Deck.

 

Impressed in that it's totally streamlined the whole process and made it fully integrated into Steam itself, meaning that my chosen older games sit nicely alongside the PC stuff I've bought, even with nice box art to make it all look official.

 

There is something incredible in just flipping using the main Deck UI between games & systems.

 

It's been a longtime since I fiddled about with MAME and 16bit emulators on a desktop PC, but it was an intellectual obsessive Pokerom type exercise in having whole romsets on hard drives, I never really played anything.

 

Now I can sit on the sofa with a handheld and play a personally selected library of older games and it's been totally eye opening to me, I've played more games in the last month than in the last few years.

 

I honestly thought I was done with games but I'm totally back in now, though not sure if I'm just an old person watching UK Gold and shouting 'now that is a sitcom, proper jokes' when Are You Being Served is on. 

 

[dumpster]

MAME has gone a bit weird.  Years ago they decided to stop allowing emulation shortcuts. For example, in Asteroids all the sounds were samples. They changed the policy and Asteroids went from being ostensibly perfect to being broken.  Then someone accurately emulated the sound, and on a current PC the game plays perfectly again.  But many other games that you'd imagine would work perfectly don't because the Mame way of emulating is about accuracy rather than playability.  My old PC runs Model 2, Model 3, Ridge Racers, etc perfectly well using emulators like Nebula, Supermodel and Vivanono.  But these games are unplayable in Mame.  I got a better PC recently and was surprised how little impact it had on Mame.  Many games that ran to slowly on the old PC work fine on the new PC, but there are so many games that say "This game does not work. You won't be able to make it work. Wait for the emulation to improve", where you know there are other emulators that play them fine. 

 

Also Mame now does other devices like home computers, handhelds, plug and play TV systems, fruit machines and so on.  It's kind of ruined the purity of the experience.  Back in the late 90s or early 2000s it was an arcade emulator with a decent selection of classic games.  In 2022 it feels way to big and very unfinished, with a 100Gb Romset and CHD files.  MAME feels like it has lost its way, even though it definitely hasn't and just isn't intended to be what it used to be.  

[Qazimod]

10 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Also Mame now does other devices like home computers, handhelds, plug and play TV systems, fruit machines and so on.  It's kind of ruined the purity of the experience.

 

Things were getting a bit desperate when I would go to the dev page and the whatsnew txt to find that the latest additions were Tiger handheld games.  

[bradigor]

I find even the good romsets a pain. Some games seem to have no sound in them. Can't find any reason for it. Luckily it's more 'modern' stuff I can skip such as Tekken 2/3