Is the Xbox Series S a "potato" console holding next gen game dev back?

[thesnwmn]

6 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

 

 

No pounds?  Titles already have assets at various levels of detail for performance reasons.  There's cost is optimising when and how they're used but I'd be very surprised if anything is specifically created for the S version of a game  eg.  There's not going to be a special S version of a bush.  They'll be a bush at various LODs.  The S might switch to the highest quality version later/never or have few bushes in a scene.  Or shadows that draw in later / lower res on foliage etc.

 

For textures, these are either created with various mip levels if develops are using something archaic or the game uses virtual texturing, making texture size irrelevant.  It doesn't matter how complex the scene is, the texture budget per frame is consistent as it's only retrieving what it needs to draw. 

 

Nanite for UE5 is doing the same for geometry too.  It doesn't matter how complex the source geometry is, it's only taking up around 750MB in memory on any platform and only drawing around 20m polygons.

 

I'd be surprised of other developers don't implement Nanite style geometry clusters in their engines.  Why wouldn't you?  (and the S handles the tech just fine)

 

 

 

 

Of course it costs money. Anyone who doesn't think that is frankly insane and can not have tried to develop or release anything ever.

 

Choosing what to put in the download package. What res assets do you choose to export for the S. Just because you have them you still need to pick them.

 

Yes, your engine can do very much of the heavy lifting. But having picked your graphics presets you need to play your game. To test that it's at least close to your target frame rate throughout so that Digital Foundry don't rip you a new one.

 

 

[Strafe]

Sure.

[Stanley]

5 minutes ago, Strafe said:

Sure.

Other people have either liked my posts or made similar comments so I don’t feel as though I was being wilfully obtuse or whatever it is you think I’m doing. It does seem like you’ve latched onto it like a dog with a bone. Need to let it go. 

[monkeydog]

18 minutes ago, thesnwmn said:

 

Of course it costs money. Anyone who doesn't think that is frankly insane and can not have tried to develop or release anything ever.

 

Choosing what to put in the download package. What res assets do you choose to export for the S. Just because you have them you still need to pick them.

 

Yes, your engine can do very much of the heavy lifting. But having picked your graphics presets you need to play your game. To test that it's at least close to your target frame rate throughout so that Digital Foundry don't rip you a new one.

 

 

 

 

I was taking specifically to your point on the cost of lower resolution assets for the S. There's not likely to be any for the reasons I covered.   I didn't suggest creating, optimising and testing a version of the game for the S didn't cost anything.   

 

[thesnwmn]

Just now, monkeydog said:

 

 

 

I was taking specifically to you point on the cost of lower resolution assets for the S. There's not likely to be any.   I didn't suggest creating, optimising and testing for the S didn't cost anything.   

 

 

 

Fair, you're right that the real cost of producing s lower res asset should be comparatively negligible.

 

I suspect they just come with some overhead people might not consider.

 

Anyway, somehow I seem to be putting out points about why it's a cost, which I think it is, but still just s complete non-issue and a pure positive for the gaming landscape.

[Strafe]

27 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Other people have either liked my posts or made similar comments so I don’t feel as though I was being wilfully obtuse or whatever it is you think I’m doing. It does seem like you’ve latched onto it like a dog with a bone. Need to let it go. 

“Other people have liked my posts” and I need to let it go.

 

 

[Stanley]

10 minutes ago, Strafe said:

“Other people have liked my posts” and I need to let it go.

 

 

What is it you want from this at this point, are you really that bothered? Anyway, I have only good vibes for you 

[Strafe]

Just now, Stanley said:

What is it you want from this at this point, are you really that bothered? Anyway, I have only good vibes for you 

To be honest, I think I have some sort of tick or similar with stuff like this after a certain point and have to have the last word. It’s not a redeeming feature and on a more personal note you’re one of my favourite posters so it has been disheartening.

[Stanley]

14 minutes ago, Strafe said:

To be honest, I think I have some sort of tick or similar with stuff like this after a certain point and have to have the last word. It’s not a redeeming feature and on a more personal note you’re one of my favourite posters so it has been disheartening.

Man, sometimes I get tangled up in this stuff and I honestly have no idea why, I’m not always that self aware, so please forgive me - we seemed to have locked antlers and are unable to free ourselves, or something poetic which I’m not great at either 

[Sarlaccfood]

Let’s just all agree the best form of potato is waffle fries and move on

[thesnwmn]

8 minutes ago, Sarlaccfood said:

Let’s just all agree the best form of potato is waffle fries and move on

 

Questioning the validity or impact of the Series S was the start of a discussion.

 

Proposing a specific form of potato as the best is going to start a war.

 

When they write the history of rllmuk, this will be where they pin point the initial skirmishes that led to its downfall.

[JPL]

What the fuck are waffle fries?

[SMD]

3 minutes ago, JPL said:

What the fuck are waffle fries?

 

hashtag fries

[Sarlaccfood]

8 minutes ago, JPL said:

What the fuck are waffle fries?

Sweet summer child. Like a mix of potato waffles and French fries:

 

 

Give them a go. The only thing holding you back is your imagination. 

[JPL]

1 minute ago, Sarlaccfood said:

Sweet summer child. Like a mix of potato waffles and French fries:

 

 

Give them a go. The only thing holding you back is your imagination. 

I’ll be giving those a try then.

[SeanR]

why is this thread still a thing?

[Jarik]

When I was deciding between a Series S & Series X I did look up what games were or were going to be X-Specific and couldn't really find any.  I was unaware that Microsoft had actually made it a requirement that all games had to be playable on both.

[ScouserInExile]

23 hours ago, Uncle Nasty said:

My dad actually works for Nintendo and says that the S in Series S stands for "Spud".

Yeah, well, my dad works for Xbox and says Switch stands for "shit kids toy for meffs". He's not great at spelling.

[Lying Cat]

23 hours ago, dvdx2 said:

What’s all this ‘potato’ nonsense now used in gaming circles? Last time I knew, it was something you roasted and had with the Sunday dinner. I take it that it’s some new teenage YouTube lingo?

Portal 2 pre-release ARG scars.

[JoeK]

I’ve got a sudden urge to eat some Birds Eye potato waffles.

 

They’re waffle-y versatile don’t you know.

[Mallet]

Digital foundry is interesting this week, they start with the fact Gotham Knights and a Plague Tale don't run at 60fps. Their conclusion from examining the game running on PCs is that both games are CPU bound. Which is sad because I think we all assumed, at least I did, that the CPU issues of the PS4 and Xbox one had been solved by the move from Jaguar to Zen 2 cores.

 

On the other hand, it is good news for the Series S as it basically has the same CPU so if the games are CPU bound then it isn't the Series S holding them back at all.

[MattyP]

37 minutes ago, Mallet said:

Digital foundry is interesting this week, they start with the fact Gotham Knights and a Plague Tale don't run at 60fps. Their conclusion from examining the game running on PCs is that both games are CPU bound. Which is sad because I think we all assumed, at least I did, that the CPU issues of the PS4 and Xbox one had been solved by the move from Jaguar to Zen 2 cores.

 

On the other hand, it is good news for the Series S as it basically has the same CPU so if the games are CPU bound then it isn't the Series S holding them back at all.

I expected this would end up being the case at some point. Did a bit of a comparison between the S version of Plague and running it on my PC and it ran better on the S. The PC is a Ryzen 5 1600 Zen 1 clocked at 3.2GHz. it's 2 cores short of what's in the S.

 

So glad I have the S it does seem to be the perfect little upgrade to play games on over my PC. 

 

So essentially all the consoles for the more ambitious projects will be dropping back to 30fps unless they are heavily optimised for the target hardware. So console exclusives.

[Stanley]

Series X can do 40FPS for A Plague Tale, and I can see that becoming a popular compromise as games get more demanding.  

[Strafe]

2 hours ago, Mallet said:

Digital foundry is interesting this week, they start with the fact Gotham Knights and a Plague Tale don't run at 60fps. Their conclusion from examining the game running on PCs is that both games are CPU bound. Which is sad because I think we all assumed, at least I did, that the CPU issues of the PS4 and Xbox one had been solved by the move from Jaguar to Zen 2 cores.

 

On the other hand, it is good news for the Series S as it basically has the same CPU so if the games are CPU bound then it isn't the Series S holding them back at all.

I reckon Warner Bros Montreal were probably the ones holding the game back in this case.

[MattyP]

Well I finally got stuck into Gears 5 on the S tonight. This is stunning on the S - lots of visual updates over what I was playing on my PC think it was mainly the lighting and HDR also the reflections from puddles etc. Had Dolby Atmos on with the phones I've just got. All running at a smooth 60fps. Great experience. I mean if this is "potato" level gaming... Bring it on...

[carlospie]

When I was in highschool we all did food tech as it was easy and the teacher was nice. We had three months to research and prepare our final piece for our a level.

 

My friend, who was the laziest person on planet earth, turned up on the last day and presented his work. It was a masterpiece. It was a jacket potato with cheese on top.

 

Potato a la potato he named it. The teacher went berserk and threw him out of the class and failed him for it, but it was hilarious. Also who doesn't like potato.

 

Turns out the guy just took three months off and chilled out playing video games and smoking weed. 

[ScouserInExile]

14 hours ago, JoeK said:

I’ve got a sudden urge to eat some Birds Eye potato waffles.

 

They’re waffle-y versatile don’t you know.

They go ace with a fry. Used to have hash browns but have switched to waffles. They're a great plate sweeper.

[MansizeRooster]

I'm wondering if a combo of the unit shortages that have blighted this gen, and the protracted period of cross-gen development, will lead to this gen lasting longer than usual.

 

We've been about 2 years now, and I've really not seen a lot of games that I'd say set the new machines apart from the last gen at all.

[Oh Danny Boy]

Hopefully we’ve come to the point where there are no more new generations. Maybe incremental upgrades every number of years. The whole generational cycle is very wasteful and just constantly drives up costs and kills creativity. 

[monkeydog]

DF's look at Plague Tale 2: Rats, Rats! Rats! is out. Features 300,000 on-screen rats with the S at a fairly solid 30fps.

 

Based on the extra headroom the Series X shows in the 40fps mode, we could have had 350,000 rat on-screen at 30fps. GENERATION RUINED.

 

The PS5 has poorer fps during demanding scenes than the S, all be it at a higher resolution. Guess this makes that a turnip console, compared to the Series X's delicious roast carrot.