Immortality *spoilers*

[BitterToad]

17 minutes ago, Thor said:

I've seen the credits, but I'm not able to do this on mine. Rewinding toward the end of that scene I get a glimpse of what looks like Amy Archer, but that's all I get. 

Sometimes you have to rewind at different speeds to find what’s hidden. So it might be a frame scrub, might be 2x, might be more. I don’t know the specifics of this clip but could that be it?

[CrichStand]

So there’s a scene with the FE graphically beating a Christian Saint to death, who’s implied to be a sex offender and then the FE says “no matter how many I kill, there are always more”.. 

 

This dude really doesn’t like Christians much does he! 
 

 

 

 

[CrichStand]

Has anyone figured out how the female entity possessed Marissa, killed Carl, then killed and possessed John, then morphed back into Marissa, then 20 years later is still Marrisa but John is still alive and sat reading lines with her as if nothing’s ever happened? 
 

Surely there’s no way they could have fucked up that badly? 😂

[Thor]

26 minutes ago, BitterToad said:

Sometimes you have to rewind at different speeds to find what’s hidden. So it might be a frame scrub, might be 2x, might be more. I don’t know the specifics of this clip but could that be it?

Thanks, I'll see what I can do, because in 17a where Carl is shot, I've seen people reference a scene between the two entities, I can see a glimpse of the two entities when I rewind but nothing more.

 

Also, I though this was fucking fantastic. Really unsettling. One thing I wish I hadn't done was click the "content warning" in the main menu. The fact it lists "blasphemy regarding the catholic faith" gave it away for me. But thankfully not too soon. My first proper "wtf is going" scene was 3a where the rewind switched to a clearly dead/dying John. And I loved the early revelation when I realised it was actually Melissa doing the killings,  is she as vampire? I thought. Then it became a bit clearer with the biblical themes coming through as I explored more of Ambrosia. 

 

edit: Scrubbing worked, I'd played the whole game not using the Shift key!

[CrichStand]

Watched some more clips and from the symbology used the entities are Semiramis/Lilith and Satan.

 

There is footage designed so that when you interact with it and play it backwards it states "Satan is Lord" along with some other stuff. So it's pronounced as it would be in ritual. What the actual fuck!?!?!

 

The company that make it are literally named after Semiramis. Their logo is an inverted Crucifixion. The game denies Jesus Christ and puts Satan on the cross in his place. Mother Mary is called a prostitute and repeatedly stabbed. Christian Saints are beaten to death. One priest, who seems to be used as a representaiotn of Jesus, is seduced, tortured for 6 days by Semiramis and then sent to hell on the 7th. It inverts bible teaching and promotes False Religion/Occult teachings. And now the game is pronouncing the above. 

 

Fucking nuts that this has even been released! Imagine if they'd used Islam, the Quran and the Prophet Mohammed. Or if they'd shown Black/Gay/Trans people being beaten to death etc. But in 2022 it's ok to make a gane with this kind of content? Absolutely fucking nuts!

[Stanley]

It’s powerful stuff, the term ‘false religion’ is interesting though, or occult. These are similarly themes that Lynch has used as well, scratching at the underbelly and going deeper and deeper ‘as above so below’. 

[George Clooney]

8 hours ago, Thor said:

I've seen the credits, but I'm not able to do this on mine. Rewinding toward the end of that scene I get a glimpse of what looks like Amy Archer, but that's all I get. 

if you’re playing on x box and you can see something but struggle to get it to stick, play it forward to that point then tap the L trigger to start it rewinding slowly, then when you see it appear, hold down left on the dpad.  I messed about a bit at first with scrubbing speeds and going back and forth but tried the d pad to frame by frame it (holding it just makes it go slowly) and it always brings the scene up as soon as you try that.  Now pretty much every time I rewind if it doesn’t stick straight away (and some just flick straight to it), I’ll hold left down.

 

Similarly sometimes you can’t rewind the hidden scene, especially if you’ve let it play out.  But if you hold the left d pad, you can always rewind using that.

[jon_cybernet]

This spoiler-filled explanation of the meta story has been floating around the internet and it seems to track pretty well with what I’ve seen: 

 

Spoiler

The One and The Other One are two immortal beings that have existed as long as humanity have and probably before. They are opposites, but they are intertwined. The One is drawn to Creation, The Other One is drawn to Destruction. The One has confidence in humanity and is sometimes able to convince The Other One to go along with her schemes to create stories to attempt to better humanity. I believe this is because The Other One is truly in love with The One, and that trumps his distaste and pessimism for the potential of humans.

One of the stories They created is the Jesus narrative. They thought this would be it, the one to finally put humanity on the path of bettering itself. Obviously it didn't. This causes some disillusion for The One and she spends the next two millenia or so alternately wandering the earth and being "dead". Apparently, the harsher the death, the longer They stay dead but They always come back, BUT The One says They don't come back from being cremated. (How do they know this, I don't know, but I THINK i remember there is one clip where The One hints that there once were more of Them than just these two, but now these two are all that remain.) This is important for later.

Fast forward to France during WWI, The One comes about Marissa dying in a barn and takes her form. She is reinvigorated by her beauty and youth, and spends the next few decades modeling and traveling in Europe, eventually reveling in this brand new art form, the Cinema. She can tell that the Cinema is something special, a completely new art form unlike any other, and being a lover of creation, she wants to take part of it. She tracks down Arthur Fischer, considered to be the best director at the time, and auditions to be in his movie. Unfortunately, Fischer's career is on the decline and he's no longer the artistic genius she thought he was, but no matter, she's in the biz and she loves it. This first movie is AMBROSIO. While filming AMBROSIO, The Other One tracks The One down and assumes the form of the actor playing Satan. He's mostly there just because he loves her and wants to be near her, but She's pissed because She knows that He doesn't approve of her philosophy of creation. However, The Other One lets her have this movie and it finishes without any problems.

The One (as Marissa) gets involved with the Director of Photography on AMBROSIO, John Durick, and follows him to New York to make Durick's directorial debut. This movie is MINSKY. Filming starts of well, Marissa hits it off (way off) with the leading man of the movie, Carl Greenwood, and Durick digs it because he's a hip artist and free love and whatever (it's hinted he's kind of a perv). However, The Other One tracks The One down in New York and His patience is starting to wear thin. He sees Durick as a hack, that this movie means nothing, and wants to get The One to give up on this new obsession with the movies up and just be with Him. She refuses. The Other One then kills Carl Greenwood and takes his form. This really pisses Her off and she "accidentally" kills fake-Carl via on-set accident with a loaded gun. Carl's body is then cremated and The One thinks that means she is free from The Other One forever. This ends the production of MINSKY.

At some point during the production of MINSKY, The One reveals her true nature to John Durick. Durick is horrified and The One winds up killing him because of his reaction. Durick then disappears for the rest of the production and The One (as Marissa) tries to direct the rest of the movie herself. (There are a few scenes where the crew is like "should we go without John" and Marissa just says, "let's just do it" and directs the scene herself.) It, obviously, goes to ♥♥♥♥ with the aforementioned interference of The Other One.

The One then decides to retire Marissa and lives as John Durick for the next couple of decades, trying to make movies but each one turns out worse than the one before. Her enthusiasm and belief is running out, and being alive for so long means she is "running out of time".

At some point, the actress Amy Archer watches the footage of Carl Greenwood dying. Through this footage, The Other One is able to live again as Amy. It turns out this new medium of Film is another way for The One and The Other One to transfer themselves into new bodies. They no longer have to destroy who they want to become. They can Create and live on through the movies.

This allows The Other One to see The One's viewpoint of the importance of creation (and the power of film). The Other One (as Amy) tracks down The One and sees that The One is at the end of her lifespan. The Other One offers his help to The One to make one last movie, the movie that will explain everything, and will also give her the vehicle for true immortality. This movie is TWO OF EVERYTHING.

During the production of 2OE, The One is both John Durick and Marissa Marcel (this part confuses me, because this ability was never hinted at before but as far as I can tell, this is what is happening). The Other One is Amy Archer, who plays the role of Isabella Hessenberg in 2OE. The wear and tear of being two people while also having "lived" for so long without "dying" and "resting" is causing a huge toll on The One. She starts to literally fall apart, to the great concern of The Other One. Eventually, she is unable to finish the movie and agrees to die on film. The Other One burns her alive. Upon watching the footage of Marissa Marcel's death, we (the viewer) become The One and The One becomes us. She has achieved true immortality.

 

[Stanley]

Fucking hell. Certainly tallies with what I thougt about living within the medium itself. Makes me almost not want to play it any more, although it’s already too late! 

[therearerules]

2 hours ago, jon_cybernet said:

This spoiler-filled explanation of the meta story has been floating around the internet and it seems to track pretty well with what I’ve seen: 

 

  Hide contents

The One and The Other One are two immortal beings that have existed as long as humanity have and probably before. They are opposites, but they are intertwined. The One is drawn to Creation, The Other One is drawn to Destruction. The One has confidence in humanity and is sometimes able to convince The Other One to go along with her schemes to create stories to attempt to better humanity. I believe this is because The Other One is truly in love with The One, and that trumps his distaste and pessimism for the potential of humans.

One of the stories They created is the Jesus narrative. They thought this would be it, the one to finally put humanity on the path of bettering itself. Obviously it didn't. This causes some disillusion for The One and she spends the next two millenia or so alternately wandering the earth and being "dead". Apparently, the harsher the death, the longer They stay dead but They always come back, BUT The One says They don't come back from being cremated. (How do they know this, I don't know, but I THINK i remember there is one clip where The One hints that there once were more of Them than just these two, but now these two are all that remain.) This is important for later.

Fast forward to France during WWI, The One comes about Marissa dying in a barn and takes her form. She is reinvigorated by her beauty and youth, and spends the next few decades modeling and traveling in Europe, eventually reveling in this brand new art form, the Cinema. She can tell that the Cinema is something special, a completely new art form unlike any other, and being a lover of creation, she wants to take part of it. She tracks down Arthur Fischer, considered to be the best director at the time, and auditions to be in his movie. Unfortunately, Fischer's career is on the decline and he's no longer the artistic genius she thought he was, but no matter, she's in the biz and she loves it. This first movie is AMBROSIO. While filming AMBROSIO, The Other One tracks The One down and assumes the form of the actor playing Satan. He's mostly there just because he loves her and wants to be near her, but She's pissed because She knows that He doesn't approve of her philosophy of creation. However, The Other One lets her have this movie and it finishes without any problems.

The One (as Marissa) gets involved with the Director of Photography on AMBROSIO, John Durick, and follows him to New York to make Durick's directorial debut. This movie is MINSKY. Filming starts of well, Marissa hits it off (way off) with the leading man of the movie, Carl Greenwood, and Durick digs it because he's a hip artist and free love and whatever (it's hinted he's kind of a perv). However, The Other One tracks The One down in New York and His patience is starting to wear thin. He sees Durick as a hack, that this movie means nothing, and wants to get The One to give up on this new obsession with the movies up and just be with Him. She refuses. The Other One then kills Carl Greenwood and takes his form. This really pisses Her off and she "accidentally" kills fake-Carl via on-set accident with a loaded gun. Carl's body is then cremated and The One thinks that means she is free from The Other One forever. This ends the production of MINSKY.

At some point during the production of MINSKY, The One reveals her true nature to John Durick. Durick is horrified and The One winds up killing him because of his reaction. Durick then disappears for the rest of the production and The One (as Marissa) tries to direct the rest of the movie herself. (There are a few scenes where the crew is like "should we go without John" and Marissa just says, "let's just do it" and directs the scene herself.) It, obviously, goes to ♥♥♥♥ with the aforementioned interference of The Other One.

The One then decides to retire Marissa and lives as John Durick for the next couple of decades, trying to make movies but each one turns out worse than the one before. Her enthusiasm and belief is running out, and being alive for so long means she is "running out of time".

At some point, the actress Amy Archer watches the footage of Carl Greenwood dying. Through this footage, The Other One is able to live again as Amy. It turns out this new medium of Film is another way for The One and The Other One to transfer themselves into new bodies. They no longer have to destroy who they want to become. They can Create and live on through the movies.

This allows The Other One to see The One's viewpoint of the importance of creation (and the power of film). The Other One (as Amy) tracks down The One and sees that The One is at the end of her lifespan. The Other One offers his help to The One to make one last movie, the movie that will explain everything, and will also give her the vehicle for true immortality. This movie is TWO OF EVERYTHING.

During the production of 2OE, The One is both John Durick and Marissa Marcel (this part confuses me, because this ability was never hinted at before but as far as I can tell, this is what is happening). The Other One is Amy Archer, who plays the role of Isabella Hessenberg in 2OE. The wear and tear of being two people while also having "lived" for so long without "dying" and "resting" is causing a huge toll on The One. She starts to literally fall apart, to the great concern of The Other One. Eventually, she is unable to finish the movie and agrees to die on film. The Other One burns her alive. Upon watching the footage of Marissa Marcel's death, we (the viewer) become The One and The One becomes us. She has achieved true immortality.

 

I agree with most of that except for the following:

 

Spoiler

The negatives to Ambrosia are stolen by Fisher, so the film is never released.

 

Amy becomes the Other One during the 2OE shoot. During the seated rehearsals she's still Amy, and The One takes her as a muse (and lover?, would need to watch the scene where she talks about Amy again to check). The One could have shown the Minsky footage to Amy during the 2OE shoot.

 

Finally, if the scenes are all things which happened, if not necessarily at that time or location (such as the church scene becoming the scene where the One originally found Marissa), then what to make of the scene with The One stabbing Robert?

 

[Alan Stock]

I've sunk about 12 hours into this now and still think there's some things I'm missing. I don't have a good explanation for why the first film was cancelled. I don't know if there's a specific reason for the accident in film 2 (I.e. was the gun tampered with or was it deliberate by the entity). There's confusion around the final credits clip as to why Isabella is involved, I haven't seen evidence of her being possessed/replaced yet although a few hints she is connected. It's also unclear whether Marissa in the final clip is real as it looks like a dummy once it's burned, although this could just be symbolic of her being a puppet or even replaced by the demon. The long gap between film 2 and 3 currently I'm assuming because the demon is slumbering and I'm not sure why she comes back. Definitely feels like I'm missing a few clips to if not answer, at least shed a bit more light on these things.

 

I reached the end credits clip through a fairly random sequence following the thread from the Ambrosio chase scene, to the actresses Juliet demo audition, to clicking on the casting chair. So far I've found no other way to get there, which is weird because the credits came out of the blue for me before I'd pieced half of the meta story together. I imagine other people have had similar experiences. Personally I deliberately avoided the rewind scrubbing for a while after I first discovered it in order to piece together more of the 'standard' plot first. Then I went back and meticulously rewound every clip because aside from a few I'd favourites after the reveal, I had no idea where the backwards clips were without watching every clip on normal speed again. I wish there had been a better way than a sound cue for people who already had like 100 clips open at the reveal!

 

Talking of the reveal, sadly I had been primed for some creepiness because of the main forum thread, but it was still really effective when it happened. I feel like I got quite lucky with mine for impact. It's the rehearsal scene for film 3 where Maria and the sleazy guy fight. I was rewinding to check something when Marissa sitting on top of him with a gun was suddenly replaced with an entirely new person. Absolutely brilliant and super creepy. The demon doesn't really say much whih is good because some of the other early demon scenes you can unlock would have been a bit too obvious.

 

There's some kind of structure to unlocking more rewind clips. More seem to unlock as you find more, because in some clips that definitely had no audio cue they have now appeared. Unfortunately it seems to be a bit bugged, because some of them that used to work are now failing to activate at all. 

 

Anyway its a mind boggling technical and design achievement and very clever. As for the game, I've enjoyed it and love the twist, but Her Story is still the best of the 3 for me. That's no discredit to this game though, it tells a bunch of well done stories in a unique way, with great acting and lots of fun little side questions to go off and answer.

 

As I focussed mainly on characters to navigate, to finish up I'm going to start using more objects to hopefully tease out those last clips. I do have things to say about the visual navigation but will leave that for another post. It's both good and bad.

[therearerules]

@Alan Stockaar

Are you using the d-pad (held down) to scrub backwards on the ones which don't seem to work?

 

[Alan Stock]

I'm on PC and yeah I've been using the proper controls. What's odd is even the audio cues have gone, I'm sensing I've somehow undone some of the progression markers for unlocking further rewind clips. For example in Ambrosia, there's a scene where Ambrosia is lying on the cell floor and Marissa comes in with her devil outfit and tells him to read the book. There used to be a rewind scene here for me where the entity replaces Marissa and talks about what people say to avoid death. But now for some reason I can't access it and the audio cue has gone.

 

I've read this spoiler thread now and some good discussion here. Definitely sounds like there's a few important clips for me still to find. I should note that as I was so meticulous with rewinding everything, there's a bunch of brief glimpses that start showing up of the entities overlaid over characters but only on 1 or 2x rewind speed. Unfortunately sometimes it's hard to make out what entity is appearing due to the layering. It definitely makes more sense if the male entity is inhabiting Greenwood and Isabellas actress.

[therearerules]

2 minutes ago, Alan Stock said:

I'm on PC and yeah I've been using the proper controls. What's odd is even the audio cues have gone, I'm sensing I've somehow undone some of the progression markers for unlocking further rewind clips. For example in Ambrosia, there's a scene where Ambrosia is lying on the cell floor and Marissa comes in with her devil outfit and tells him to read the book. There used to be a rewind scene here for me where the entity replaces Marissa and talks about what people say to avoid death. But now for some reason I can't access it and the audio cue has gone.

 

I've read this spoiler thread now and some good discussion here. Definitely sounds like there's a few important clips for me still to find. I should note that as I was so meticulous with rewinding everything, there's a bunch of brief glimpses that start showing up of the entities overlaid over characters but only on 1 or 2x rewind speed. Unfortunately sometimes it's hard to make out what entity is appearing due to the layering. It definitely makes more sense if the male entity is inhabiting Greenwood and Isabellas actress.

Those overlays become proper scenes if scrubbed correctly, it's holding the d-pad on console, no idea on PC

[Stanley]

I’ve not used the d-pad, what does that do again? 

[Alan Stock]

34 minutes ago, therearerules said:

Those overlays become proper scenes if scrubbed correctly, it's holding the d-pad on console, no idea on PC

 

Oh dear, if that's true there's tons for me to see. For me the proper clips pop in automatically regardless of the speed of rewinding. I'll have a shot at frame by frame rewind and different speeds to see if any of the ghost images turn into clips.

 

One question I've not yet answered is that Marissa has a home video from film 2 saying that Carl isn't who she thought he was, but so far I've got no clips to back that up, aside from a clip where its revealed he is probably bisexual (which doesn't seem like it would bother Marissa/demon lady anyway). So I feel like there's a clip where Carl does something that distances him from Marissa. In the clips following her home video its clear something has bothered her, she makes an excuse to leave a scene early which is very out of character for her.

 

I had deliberately focussed on clicking on characters to drive the structure of the game to begin with, as objects seemed a bit too random and likely to lead to clips without context. However my first forays into doing this revealed that there are some clips which definitely seemed locked behind specific objects, for example keys or a tape recorder. Other random objects like lights will just teleport you around to different scenes, although it seems prefixed to a limited number. For character faces its a bit unclear how the structure works. In some cases it looks like it chooses from a bank of scenes and teleports you to a random scene based on the actor. For others there is a clear progression, for example some of the better hidden scenes, when you click on a characters face there it will take you to an even deeper hidden scene that may not have other routes there. So my recommendation is to Favourite any scenes which seem like they're in a deeper struture layer and then try stuff like characters faces or specific objects in the scene to try and get to new content that way.

[Alan Stock]

Yep, you were right @therearerules! The ghost images that were appearing can be resolved into full clips but on PC you have to use the Shift Key and arrow keys to initiate slower scrubs. Before I was using the film reel in the corner with the mouse and arrow keys without Shift, but it looks like its hard to get slow enough speeds to trigger the transition using that method. Already I got an answer to what happened in the alternate Carl death scene. Very annoyingly though, now I need to try and remember all the scenes I hadn't bothered favouriting that just had ghost images in them for me. If only there was an option to autoflag them for people like me who don't really want to trawl through the whole catalogue again! Hopefully this will lead to a bunch of new answers though, cheers!

[carlospie]

1 hour ago, therearerules said:

Those overlays become proper scenes if scrubbed correctly, it's holding the d-pad on console, no idea on PC

Alt and F5 on pc.

[therearerules]

1 hour ago, Alan Stock said:

Yep, you were right @therearerules! The ghost images that were appearing can be resolved into full clips but on PC you have to use the Shift Key and arrow keys to initiate slower scrubs. Before I was using the film reel in the corner with the mouse, but it looks like its hard to get slow enough speeds to trigger the transition using that method. Already I got an answer to what happened in the alternate Carl death scene. Very annoyingly though, now I need to try and remember all the scenes I hadn't bothered favouriting that just had ghost images in them for me. If only there was an option to autoflag them for people like me who don't really want to trawl through the whole catalogue again! Hopefully this will lead to a bunch of new answers though, cheers!

I had exactly the same issue. Annoyingly I spent ages manually trying to watch them, got the first line and thought that was it.

[CrichStand]

6 hours ago, jon_cybernet said:

This spoiler-filled explanation of the meta story has been floating around the internet and it seems to track pretty well with what I’ve seen: 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The One and The Other One are two immortal beings that have existed as long as humanity have and probably before. They are opposites, but they are intertwined. The One is drawn to Creation, The Other One is drawn to Destruction. The One has confidence in humanity and is sometimes able to convince The Other One to go along with her schemes to create stories to attempt to better humanity. I believe this is because The Other One is truly in love with The One, and that trumps his distaste and pessimism for the potential of humans.

One of the stories They created is the Jesus narrative. They thought this would be it, the one to finally put humanity on the path of bettering itself. Obviously it didn't. This causes some disillusion for The One and she spends the next two millenia or so alternately wandering the earth and being "dead". Apparently, the harsher the death, the longer They stay dead but They always come back, BUT The One says They don't come back from being cremated. (How do they know this, I don't know, but I THINK i remember there is one clip where The One hints that there once were more of Them than just these two, but now these two are all that remain.) This is important for later.

Fast forward to France during WWI, The One comes about Marissa dying in a barn and takes her form. She is reinvigorated by her beauty and youth, and spends the next few decades modeling and traveling in Europe, eventually reveling in this brand new art form, the Cinema. She can tell that the Cinema is something special, a completely new art form unlike any other, and being a lover of creation, she wants to take part of it. She tracks down Arthur Fischer, considered to be the best director at the time, and auditions to be in his movie. Unfortunately, Fischer's career is on the decline and he's no longer the artistic genius she thought he was, but no matter, she's in the biz and she loves it. This first movie is AMBROSIO. While filming AMBROSIO, The Other One tracks The One down and assumes the form of the actor playing Satan. He's mostly there just because he loves her and wants to be near her, but She's pissed because She knows that He doesn't approve of her philosophy of creation. However, The Other One lets her have this movie and it finishes without any problems.

The One (as Marissa) gets involved with the Director of Photography on AMBROSIO, John Durick, and follows him to New York to make Durick's directorial debut. This movie is MINSKY. Filming starts of well, Marissa hits it off (way off) with the leading man of the movie, Carl Greenwood, and Durick digs it because he's a hip artist and free love and whatever (it's hinted he's kind of a perv). However, The Other One tracks The One down in New York and His patience is starting to wear thin. He sees Durick as a hack, that this movie means nothing, and wants to get The One to give up on this new obsession with the movies up and just be with Him. She refuses. The Other One then kills Carl Greenwood and takes his form. This really pisses Her off and she "accidentally" kills fake-Carl via on-set accident with a loaded gun. Carl's body is then cremated and The One thinks that means she is free from The Other One forever. This ends the production of MINSKY.

At some point during the production of MINSKY, The One reveals her true nature to John Durick. Durick is horrified and The One winds up killing him because of his reaction. Durick then disappears for the rest of the production and The One (as Marissa) tries to direct the rest of the movie herself. (There are a few scenes where the crew is like "should we go without John" and Marissa just says, "let's just do it" and directs the scene herself.) It, obviously, goes to ♥♥♥♥ with the aforementioned interference of The Other One.

The One then decides to retire Marissa and lives as John Durick for the next couple of decades, trying to make movies but each one turns out worse than the one before. Her enthusiasm and belief is running out, and being alive for so long means she is "running out of time".

At some point, the actress Amy Archer watches the footage of Carl Greenwood dying. Through this footage, The Other One is able to live again as Amy. It turns out this new medium of Film is another way for The One and The Other One to transfer themselves into new bodies. They no longer have to destroy who they want to become. They can Create and live on through the movies.

This allows The Other One to see The One's viewpoint of the importance of creation (and the power of film). The Other One (as Amy) tracks down The One and sees that The One is at the end of her lifespan. The Other One offers his help to The One to make one last movie, the movie that will explain everything, and will also give her the vehicle for true immortality. This movie is TWO OF EVERYTHING.

During the production of 2OE, The One is both John Durick and Marissa Marcel (this part confuses me, because this ability was never hinted at before but as far as I can tell, this is what is happening). The Other One is Amy Archer, who plays the role of Isabella Hessenberg in 2OE. The wear and tear of being two people while also having "lived" for so long without "dying" and "resting" is causing a huge toll on The One. She starts to literally fall apart, to the great concern of The Other One. Eventually, she is unable to finish the movie and agrees to die on film. The Other One burns her alive. Upon watching the footage of Marissa Marcel's death, we (the viewer) become The One and The One becomes us. She has achieved true immortality.

 

Loads of that is wrong, even if you piece it together like that.
 

Imo after seeing more footage, this is the only way the story fully works.......

 

MOST IMPORTANT SCENE.......

 

The 2 characters of Lilith and Satan, both film version and real version turn to the camera and say in reverse......”Satan is Lord. He is mine (the player). He is weak (the player). Whilst looking directly at the player. There is another scene where they look at the player and say similar stuff and talk about influencing millions of people.

 

Marissa does not exist. Nor do any of the other characters. Nor do the films. You are just playing a video game that contains the spirit of Satan and Lilith. That’s it! 

 

The Entitites are definitely Lilith and Satan. The symbology clearly shows that. Twins, brother and sister, lovers, and also as one. Satan thinks humans are worthless. Lilith is fascinated by them but also believes she is above them, so they always end up disappointing her. They are trying to turn people away from God. They do this by influencing and “enlightening” humans through books, art, music  film.........and now games.

 

They have succeeded in influencing humans through this game. See how we’re discussing it? See how its influenced us? And thus Satan and Lilith’s power and influence becomes so much more.

 

That’s the clever “hook” of this game and what’s at the core of it imo. The game itself is basically like the video in the Ring.
 

Taken like this the idea is definitely up there with loads of classic Horror films and works really well. 

[Alan Stock]

Ah, I've found another way to get to the end credits. As a reminder I got there originally via the casting chair for Agnes' actress from Ambrosio. I was cycling through the handwritten letters in Minksky and the scene where Greenwood burns Olga's letter with the lighter also takes you to the burning chair scene. I presume getting teleported to the end is gated off via the number of rewind scenes you've viewed, or something similar. I wonder what else can port you there. Maybe stage lights, or something resembling the dummy. There's not much burning in the films aside from candles and cigarrettes, and Amy (Isabella's actress) doesn't seem to link there either.

 

I've had a bunch of answers revealed to me by getting more rewind scenes, fleshing out the backstory of the entities, and how they are evolving. It nicely sums up the meaning behind the end credits scene. I'm still missing some though, its a slow process. I've still not got achievements for fully completing the footage for each film, so god knows where they are hiding, I'm being quite thorough now in checking potential links. Hopefully they aren't just ones that you get by clicking peoples faces, lights or clapperboards and getting lucky. Maybe some are locked behind facial expressions or interactions like kissing or holding hands, which already opened a few doors for me.

 

I got the answer to Carl's death. I got the stolen Ambrosio negatives scene (although don't know why he stole them, anyone find a reason for that?). I understand John's fate and how that ties into the third film now. I got the tragic fate of real Marissa. Amy is a bit of a mystery. According to one scene, she was responsible in some way in evolving the Other One, although it does imply maybe she is also an entity like the other two. Still a bit puzzled as to why Marissa/the One starts disliking Carl. Presumably because he has been taken over by the Other One, although I haven't found a scene that confirms whether he was devoured by the Other One or Carl was him all along. 

 

Has anyone found anything that explains how/when John realises who Marissa really is? Or does he not know? Its a bit unclear from what I've seen whether he knows he's creating for a godlike entity or whether he's just doing it for the love of Marissa.

 

Someone earlier in the thread complained that its stupid that although John is dead how is he in the third movie scenes at all. Well there's a few scenes that show that John is not actually there at all, and its the female entity who is doing his job whilst also playing Marissa. I guess you can handwave the scenes from movie 3 with John in them as illusions created by the female entity for our benefit, in most cases presumably she is actually doing his job.

 

In one clip between the entities they say they made a story where the female entity died and came back to life. Jesus? 

 

Off to do more clip hunting.

[Alan Stock]

3 minutes ago, CrichStand said:

 

 

The 2 characters of Lilith and Satan, both film version and real version turn to the camera and say in reverse......”Satan is Lord. He is mine (the player). He is weak (the player). Whilst looking directly at the player. There is another scene where they look at the player and say similar stuff and talk about influencing millions of people.

 

 

Loving this analysis (my biblical lore is very slight). If you can point to the scenes in question that would be very handy.

[CrichStand]

8 minutes ago, Alan Stock said:

 

Loving this analysis (my biblical lore is very slight). If you can point to the scenes in question that would be very handy.

Some of it is Biblical, some is from other Holy books, some of it is from the Occult. Unless you know a fair bit about this stuff then it’s easy to miss the symbology etc. 
 

One is in the Ambrosio film footage. It has Marissa as Lilith talking with Satan. They are talking in reverse. Not sure how many people will notice what they are saying as it just seems like gibberish. I only checked it because of things being recited backwards in Satanic/Witchcraft rituals. Read the subtitles backwards in the right way or reverse the audio at the correct speed and you get the stuff about Satan and the player being his and the player being weak whilst the characters look at the player. This has a rewind nearby and we see the real Lilith and Satan talking to each other. 
 

The other scene where they talk about the player is in the Minsky footage. Think it’s Carl and Marissa in bed which switches to Satan and Lilith with a reverse.

 

I’ve played for about 15-20hrs now and there’s still a huge amount of footage left. It feels like the footage is now getting darker and darker and the Satanic influence is being revealed more and more. Could just be coincidence I suppose. It feels like the game has taken on a whole other life though, and the more footage you see the more fucked up it gets! 

[Alan Stock]

Listen up secret-seekers! I might have found a way to find bits of reversed footage you haven't viewed yet. Pity I realised this just before finding them all!

 

Listen out for a background drone when you are selecting clips in the main clip menu. The drone is similar to the audio cue that reveals reverse clips in a video. You can check for this drone in the menu by clicking around, listen for it cutting out to silence when you are clicking different clips to help identify its presence. Temporarily muting or turning down the music helps too as the louder music stings mask the drone a bit.

 

So, it seems to work like this: A clip with unviewed reverse footage has a slightly louder drone, and the two clips to either side of it in the menu also emit a drone but a bit quieter. You can use this to hone in on the clip you need. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a way to re-enable it to help you catalogue reverse clips you've seen, but hey, its better than nothing!

 

Can someone else confirm this works for them and I got the functionality right? I only had a few reverse clips left to see in my collection. Of course this doesnt help you get more clips - I'm still missing some, although I suspect the ones I have left are pretty minor like close-ups. But as the previous games have shown us, one clip can make all the difference to the plot!

 

Also I confirmed Carl did get taken over by the Other One (rather than was Carl all along) via a new clip I found. As to when real Carl gets offed is currently unclear, but presumably its around when Marrisa/the One goes off Carl.

[Thor]

@CrichStandYou keep referring to them is Lilith and Satan, and technically you're correct, but the game makes it explicitly clear those are again just roles they played. Lilith/Eve, Adam, Mary and Joseph, Jesus and Mary Magdelene... all roles they just made up. It's part of why I love the game, it takes a great big shit on the Bible. 

[CrichStand]

@Thor 

If they’re not Satan and Lilith.......why is the game full of Blasphemy? Why are they denying Jesus Christ? Why is the game, as you put it “taking a big shit on the Bible”? Why are you constantly reversing stuff to get the Entities to appear, which is a part of Satanic ceremonies and Witchcraft?
 

Have you ever read the Bible to make such a decision, or any other Holy book for that matter? Seems odd why you would decide that Jesus who was anti-government, anti-money, taught us to love and care for one another, not to worry about anything, to be an individual, to be treated fairly, would always forgive, provide and comfort and was sent to lift the weakest people in society up, would deserve your toilet based shenanigans. 😂
 

If they are not Lilith and Satan then you would have to ignore their entire depiction in the game, including their personalities. They would then just be two entities trying to enlighten humans. But of course that describes exactly what Satan did in the first place.  Promised humans enlightenment but deceived them to turn them away from God.

 

If you want to see things in a different way though, then that’s cool! 👍🏻

[Thor]

 

Wait, are you actually religious, Crich?

[CrichStand]

48 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Wait, are you actually religious, Crich?

I used to be interested in lots of Occult stuff. I’m now a Christian and believe in the truth - Jesus Christ my saviour.
 

My Uncle was a Paratrooper in WW2, dropped behind enemy lines on D-Day. He saw horrific stuff, Nazi’s captured and killed most of his friends. He wasn’t religious because of the stuff he’d seen. He passed away numerous times in his life. Each time he ended up in Paradise. The first time, Jesus showed him how his actions had impacted other people. He didn’t want to leave because he was in pure love, peace and joy but was told he had to go back, as his time on earth wasn’t over. He then dived back into his body as though he was diving back into freezing cold water. He then became a believer. 
 

Once you’ve seen a 6ft 7 man mountain, that had the courage to do what he did, crying and in awe at what he’d experienced on the other side then, there’s no going back. He was also the most straight up, honest, kind, caring man you could ever meet.

 

You’re entitled to believe in whatever you want to believe in. You never answered me though. Have you actually looked at the teachings of Jesus? You seem to saying you don’t agree with being anti-government, anti-money, an individual, not worrying and not living in fear, and loving everyone else as you love yourself? Why would you want to shit on that? Makes no sense to me. But each to their own.

[Thor]

 

[CrichStand]

@Thor 100% serious. 100% truth.