End of an era...

[MattyP]

Recreate your old bedroom with a stack of old retro consoles and live in heaven... food/water tube stuck in your mouth and waste disposal unit stuck in you down below...  

[MattyP]

15 minutes ago, b00dles said:

Something mentioned on a recent DF I thought quite interesting in regards to this topic. It is odd to think that you could arguably own a current gen machine and only use game pass or plus, play a whole load of games but yet arguably not ever be able to play any of them again once the services stop/ you've got no Internet. 

 

It's weird in a way. I'm not sure how likely it is but I know I can still play my game boy carts, or even PlayStation discs but in 20 years from now, will I be able to turn my ps5 on and play anything on it?

 

I do wish you got more of a guarantee that you can play these digital games for longer. Steam has done amazingly on that front across various PC builds but it isn't the same on consoles and I'm not sure it will be much different. 

Guess its a leap of faith really. I can still play Half Life 2 which I bought back in 2004 on Steam for example. 

 

But sure if Steam ever disappeared be interesting to see how this could be handled. When Steam first released you could download an image to play the game offline. I'm guessing if the services were ever in a situation where they were being retired perhaps the vendors might do a similar thing? Allow the content to be downloaded locally and backed up somehow. Anything is possible. My guess is that not many unfortunately will actually care.

 

The other option is to allow migration to somewhere else on the net where you can continue to use your games (Cloud based VM for example).

[b00dles]

1 minute ago, MattyP said:

Guess its a leap of faith really. I can still play Half Life 2 which I bought back in 2004 on Steam for example. 

 

But sure if Steam ever disappeared be interesting to see how this could be handled. When Steam first released you could download an image to play the game offline. I'm guessing if the services were ever in a situation where they were being retired perhaps the vendors might do a similar thing? Allow the content to be downloaded locally and backed up somehow. Anything is possible. My guess is that not many unfortunately will actually care.

 

The other option is to allow migration to somewhere else on the net where you can continue to use your games (Cloud based VM for example).

Yeah I know steam has done it well, which is why I mentioned it. 

 

I kind of doubt we'll get an official solution or we'd get retro consoles like we have with the SNES and mega drive mini. I'm sure there will be ways but it's strange to think you could arguably play an entire generation of games and end up with just a box at the end of it. 

[Siri]

33 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

And the pandemic has also taught me, if I've been confined to my apartment and haven't dug out some of my old collection then it's less of a collection and more of a hoard.

 

That's an exceptional point - I always promised myself that, when I retire, I'll have this vast collection of stuff to sit through until the end of my days.

 

Post-lockdown, My unexpected test drive of retirement was that I'll get through a handful of games before ignoring the pile for another year. I really, REALLY don't need videogame physical tat, let alone more of it when DRM and online services make it more of a crapshoot than ever before.

[Vemsie]

I've been all-digial for years now. Buying games day 1, which I only do for games I can't wait to play, can be more expensive but I prefer the convenience and I don't want to buy more plastic.

[MattyP]

24 minutes ago, b00dles said:

I'm sure there will be ways but it's strange to think you could arguably play an entire generation of games and end up with just a box at the end of it. 

Indeed they are essentially just rich end clients into the games and services. Much like a PC I guess. And this is what I was alluding too in the topic title. I think the current consoles will be the last that have a optical drive in or in the case of the Switch a cart port. 

[MattyP]

1 minute ago, Vemsie said:

I've been all-digial for years now. Buying games day 1, which I only do for games I can't wait to play, can be more expensive but I prefer the convenience and I don't want to buy more plastic.

Yes indeed. Hate the thought these days of the resources used to make and distribute a piece of (arguably) unnecessary plastic.  Although I guess for places that don't have great internet there is a use case for them...

 

[DarhkFox]

I still buy Switch games physical but yeah anything else i buy digital - especially since my other main platform is the PC.

[dumpster]

I have a box in the garage for each old console.  There's a Dreamcast, wires, mouse, keyboard, vmu, and about 20 games.  I used to get this out every 6 months or year and have an evening of Dreamcast. Now there's a nigh on perfect emulator for Xbox, I can't see myself going to all the trouble of unpacking.  There's another box each  with the ps1, a ps2, Atari...  I'm reluctant to sell them, but emulation surely means I'll never look at any of it in the same way.  Duckstation offers a better experience than the real console, for example. 

 

 

[MattyP]

1 hour ago, dumpster said:

I have a box in the garage for each old console.  There's a Dreamcast, wires, mouse, keyboard, vmu, and about 20 games.  I used to get this out every 6 months or year and have an evening of Dreamcast. Now there's a nigh on perfect emulator for Xbox, I can't see myself going to all the trouble of unpacking.  There's another box each  with the ps1, a ps2, Atari...  I'm reluctant to sell them, but emulation surely means I'll never look at any of it in the same way.  Duckstation offers a better experience than the real console, for example. 

 

 

I had a clear out around 3 years ago now of most of my retro gear. It was hard at the time to part with it. But can't say I've missed it TBH. Got good money for it too. As you say emulation is that good now. Only thing you miss is using the bespoke controllers I guess but even then you can get those on USB now I guess.

 

Have an arcade stick I use with my PC and MAME which works really well. Also works with the PS5 too (its derived from a PS4 arcade stick). Which is great for the retro stuff that appears on PS5 too. R-Type Final 2 works with it too which is a great game to play on a stick over a pad as are most classic arcade games.

[megamixer]

Used to be 100% phsyical, fuck this digital stuff.

 

Now a bit of both. I still prefer physical retro if it's something I can't guarantee will always be playable on new services, but I will bin off the physical copies if I can run my collection from a mod of some kind and know that I own digital copies e.g. I ripped my PS2 and PSP collections to iso format so even if I have hardware issues, I still have all the games ready to go. I will never rely fully on streaming services to keep everything I might want to play available when the spectre of license expiries looms in the background.

 

Also, I don't have the greatest internet and can't justify a high-speed package so downloads of massive games just isn't feasable for me. I'm not hardcore enough to spend hours playing online and I don't watch much TV so I don't need mega internet to handle all of that stuff. Paying for a super-fast connection just to download the odd retail release here and there just isn't worth it for me.

 

Finally, I want resale value from my games. If you don't know for sure whether a game is going to be shit, or whether you will get any replayability out of it...well, I wouldn't pay £50+ for it knowing I can't recoup a single penny.

 

But I'm absolutely not anti-digital. It's just a case-by-case basis for me. Often times I've found used physical copies of games cheaper than downloads so what's the point.

 

 

[dumpster]

Also what on earth am I going to do with Dreamcast Daytona when I have it on 360? There are so many games in my collection that I have on a new format, done better.  Why am I keeping this stuff?

[amorenod]

I don't believe Dreamcast Daytona is a good example. It's a totally different game with a lot more content than the 360 arcade conversion.

 

That said, I'm taking my Saturn version to the grave.

[scottcr]

I always buy the big Nintendo games physically. They hold their value and often go up. I sold a whole bunch of stuff last year when I was a bit skint and did quite well out of it.  Everything else is digital. The only game I’ve actually bought on Xbox has been Elden Ring.

[Broker]

I’ve got the versions of the new consoles without disc drives, so no physical games for me anymore. I do buy switch games on cart occasionally, mostly because they’re often cheaper and they keep their value should I decide to sell them. But after my PS4 disc drive died I started using digital mostly and it was generally a better experience.

 

I’ve mostly let go of the idea of owning things, I accept that I just use stuff but might lose access to it. Even if I bought a disc, those games don’t work without an internet connection to download updates. I think I’ve got my PS2 Destiny 2 disc somewhere, which is completely worthless now as the game has been repeatedly updated then gone free to play anyway. Owning that disc means nothing when the game has been changed so much, there’s never going to be a way I can go back and enjoy that game as it was at release. With a lot of games now, they change so much through updates that the version you remember if gone. Plus the launch versions are often fucked and need fixing. A lot of my retro games I can’t play anyway without digging out the CRT and setting it up, my new TV doesn’t have the ports. The only thing I still buy physically and collect is manga, because that will always work and doesn’t require anything but a light. Collecting movies, games and music is pointless, even if it still works a lot of it will be available cheaper in a better form.

 

On 06/07/2022 at 09:46, Darren said:

I went digital-only this gen with the Series S and I don't regret it at all. I think that's partly down to me getting older and so becoming much less attached to "having things" and much more conscious of "doing things" in my finite time. Game Pass has given me way more than enough to enjoy, and I've bought a grand total of one game for the system (Lego Star Wars) which didn't cost me anything as I paid for it with points I earned from playing everything else.

 

We're a multi-Switch family though and so our rule is if any of us buy a Switch game we have to get the cart if one's available, so we can all share it. But I can see that rule going out the window before too long.

 

I've not traded in a physical game since the days when @moosegrinder still worked in his game shop in Nottingham.

 

I kept going to Playtime after Moosey left but that place shutting down is what stopped me shopping for physical games. The trade prices at game and CEX for most things are genuinely insulting, and there’s nothing to trade them for except stacks of whatever is selling the most.

[Ry]

This was the last physical game I bought, I was probably drunk. 

 

 

[thesnwmn]

20 hours ago, b00dles said:

Something mentioned on a recent DF I thought quite interesting in regards to this topic. It is odd to think that you could arguably own a current gen machine and only use game pass or plus, play a whole load of games but yet arguably not ever be able to play any of them again once the services stop/ you've got no Internet. 

 

It's weird in a way. I'm not sure how likely it is but I know I can still play my game boy carts, or even PlayStation discs but in 20 years from now, will I be able to turn my ps5 on and play anything on it?

 

I do wish you got more of a guarantee that you can play these digital games for longer. Steam has done amazingly on that front across various PC builds but it isn't the same on consoles and I'm not sure it will be much different. 

 

Now if they can just make it so I can rent the box itself for the same fee then it's amazing.

 

I also think that the way MS in particular have gone with compatibility means this is less of a concern. Yes the third party stuff comes and goes but a lot of the content remains compatible with future boxes in the future. And I'm happy with the sub for content model.

[Fry Crayola]

I never really made a conscious decision to go digital, I've just been swept with the flow. I had a period where my PC was the most powerful system I owned, so most stuff was purchased on Steam. I had an Xbox Live Gold subscription that kept me sweet with free 360 and Xbox One games every month, while digital sales were frequent and low-effort affairs. Before I knew it, most of my purchases were digital. When the Series consoles came out, the S model seemed like a natural upgrade - I didn't have a television to take advantage of the extended power of the X, and I could count the number of Xbox One games I owned on disc on my fingers.

 

Though I also own a lot of digital games on Sony and Nintendo platforms, it's Steam and Microsoft who give me the most confidence that I'll still be able to play those games in five or ten years, without needing to hoke out original hardware. Despite that, my experience tells me that I'm all too happy to repurchase a game down the line if I want to play it without that hassle. I've re-purchased a fair few games on Xbox just so I can play them on the Series S with the benefits of Quick Resume, rather than having to get the disc out of the attic and play on another console, in another room. I have an active Switch Online subscription so I can dip into classic games I already own on other platforms.

 

My old hardware is unreliable, anyhow. Both the PSP and the PS Vita have different power issues, the former refusing to retain charge, the latter completely shuts down shortly after suspending it. My PS2 just stopped reading discs one day. I've ripped all my PS1, GC and Wii games to play under emulation because it's more convenient and less cluttered, and I'd do the same with the other classic consoles once I have the storage space, and suitably good emulation worked out.

[smac]

The PBR?

[Ketchup]

I’m not all in on digital. I like owning discs and having something physical to remind me to play it than a square on a store front.

 

I do think games have changed too. They’ve either one and done, great big experiences never to play again or bite size games to play for an hour every night.

 

I bought the metal gear solid hd collection yesterday, on disc, because Konami removed it with zero notice and an hour after it went on sale not giving me a chance to get it. Whilst there’s more games than ever coming out now there seems to be more disposable games than ever, not bad games, good games, enjoyable but ultimately forgettable.

[Jarik]

I’ve gradually come around to Digital.  With the increased stability and ubiquity of Internet I’m not so concerned about losing the ability to connect to digital libraries and Gamepass has shown me that I’m also Okay with having a rotating selection of games as I can get to try a little of everything but only stick with the things I really like.

 

The one thing that does concern me is for those games that you buy rather than rent, how long can you depend upon on the platform or publisher to allow you access?  I have a tonne of games on my Switch SD card (mostly Nintendo 1st-Party) but for how long can I reasonably expect support for my ability to play them?  The next Switch will most likely have some kind of Transfer tool, but I really can’t see Nintendo or 3rd-Parties being Okay with customers keeping them forever when they’d much rather sell me another version.

[Hideous Kojima]

I'll go full digital when they finally fucking port Outrun 2006.

[ontwofronts]

I went digital within about a year of getting my Xbox one and haven’t looked back. I can’t imagine buying another Xbox or PS disc.

 

I buy, largely, Nintendo carts as we’ve three switches in the house and we share games between us.

[Wiper]

So this popped up as a bit of news today, and seemed relevant to the thread; Assassin's Creed Liberation HD is being removed from Steam. Not as in 'removed from sale' — that's already happened. No, it's being outright removed, so that, as of September 1st this year, it won't be available to download or play:

 

(screenshot mine, and you can take a look for yourself if you like)

 

Truly, the best part of the digital future; publishers being able to unilaterally decide that actually no, you don't have access to that game you paid for any more.

[Darwock]

Any reasons given for that?

[Down by Law]

Quote

 

In another case of digital ownership being very shaky ground indeed, Sony is pulling content from French film production and distribution company Studio Canal in Germany and Austria. This means that as of August 31, you'll no longer be able to access these films regardless of if you've paid for them.

 

A legal notice explains that the removal of these movies, which include some absolute bangers like John Wick and Paddington 2, is the result of “evolving licensing agreements with content providers”. It adds that “you’ll no longer be able to view your previously purchased Studio Canal content and it will be removed from your video library". Rude.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gamingbible.co.uk/news/playstation-store-pulling-certain-purchases-from-users-accounts-20220708.amp.html

 

TLDR Sony pulls legally purchased movies from your account with no refunds

[Siri]

Ubisoft being dickheads doesn't really surprise me, nor does entire removal from Steam - I believe it's happened before to games whose publishers were outright banned from selling on Steam (which is a pretty low bar to sink to, all things considered).

 

On the bright side, if people really did care about the game, they'd just download it, crack the game and host it on a repository somewhere in the ether. And I wouldn't be surprised if this was done within an hour of this announcement just to spite the publisher, especially a publisher as egregious as Ubisoft.

[SMD]

True but preservation is more than just backing up. Media should be accessible to everyone and in a way that can be enjoyed without jumping through hoops. You also shouldn't have to download a pirate version of something you own legally.

[thesnwmn]

6 minutes ago, SMD said:

True but preservation is more than just backing up. Media should be accessible to everyone and in a way that can be enjoyed without jumping through hoops. You also shouldn't have to download a pirate version of something you own legally.

 

What do you* own legally here?

 

* Or the owners of the game

[SMD]

4 minutes ago, thesnwmn said:

 

What do you* own legally here?

 

* Or the owners of the game

 

I don't really want to have a legal argument, mostly because I don't agree with almost all laws about copyright and ownership but also because I think morally if you pay for something, you should possess it in a meaningful way that allows you to do what you want with it.

 

I think people get too caught up in the semantics of digital goods and licenses. I really don't care, this isn't a system that interests me nor do I think it's sustainable at a cultural level.