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40fps modes - anyone tried them?


Pob
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I just noticed yesterday that Spider-Man Remastered has joined Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart in having at 40fps mode on PS5. It's basically got all the shinies from the fidelity mode but runs at 40fps. Apparently Horizon Forbidden West is getting the option soon as well.

 

Now, you need a 120hz screen to be able to use this mode, so I've not been able to try it out. Has anyone here given it a go? How does it compare to 30 and 60hz?

 

If it's good enough, and becomes more widespread, I can see this being the main driver for me upgrading my TV. I can see that stuff like Starfield is probably not going to be 60fps, but perhaps it might get a 40hz mode? It could be a deal-maker for me, as I really can't cope with 30fps any more.

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On Steam Deck this is a great battery/fps sweet spot. On consoles, nah, just give me 60. 
 

Be prepared to see 40-is-the-new-60 modes pop up now that Steam Deck is making it acceptable (again, for an entirely different use case).

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3 hours ago, Thor said:

It's a definite improvement, but given the choice of 60fps I found myself always choosing that.

 

This, its better but its not great - I have always picked the 60 after trying the shiny 30 or 40 mode.

 

Defi see it as a positive as its the industry finally agreeing that 30 is not good enough now.

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43 minutes ago, deKay said:

I hadn’t realised the Steam Deck screen did 120Hz

 

It doesn't - you can switch the display to 40Hz (or any whole number between that and 60). So you can fiddle around with refresh rates until you get something that the game can consistently meet.

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Rule of thumb for me when it comes to video games is that gameplay is more important than graphics which in return often means better performance means better gameplay. So whenever I have the option to choose either performance mode, fidelity mode or something in between I tend to go for pure performance mode for the best gameplay feel. In some cases, though, the 40 fps option is a good trade off. It's still nowhere near a 60 fps flow, but 40 fps feels soooo much smoother than 30 fps, for some reason it feels a lot closer to 60 fps than 30 fps even though it's mathematically incorrect.

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5 hours ago, Pob said:

I just noticed yesterday that Spider-Man Remastered has joined Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart in having at 40fps mode on PS5. It's basically got all the shinies from the fidelity mode but runs at 40fps. Apparently Horizon Forbidden West is getting the option soon as well.

 

Now, you need a 120hz screen to be able to use this mode, so I've not been able to try it out. Has anyone here given it a go? How does it compare to 30 and 60hz?

 

If it's good enough, and becomes more widespread, I can see this being the main driver for me upgrading my TV. I can see that stuff like Starfield is probably not going to be 60fps, but perhaps it might get a 40hz mode? It could be a deal-maker for me, as I really can't cope with 30fps any more.


Spider-Man’s 40fps fidelity mode is insane on a VRR display, it’s pretty much between 90/120fps the whole time at 4K with Ray tracing 

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6 minutes ago, Rayn said:

It's still nowhere near a 60 fps flow, but 40 fps feels soooo much smoother than 30 fps, for some reason it feels a lot closer to 60 fps than 30 fps even though it's mathematically incorrect.

 

There's a bunch of Steam Deck related shit about the topic because of the 40hz screen mode, but the long and short of it is that, even with it looking very wrong in terms of FPS, it's slap bang in the middle of 30 FPS and 60 FPS in regards to response time - hence why it feels like a significant step towards 60.

 

ofc, it only hits that response time correctly if the display can either match it (like the Steam Deck), or it's divisible by 40 (like 120hz televisions/monitors).

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I have a PC and a 120Hz TV, once I tried limiting Horizon Zero Dawn to 40 FPS to see what it felt like to play. Feels closer to 60 than 30 wierdly, even though it's supposed to be in the middle. For a third person game like HZD where there isn't much quick camera movement, I think it's a happy medium. This is probably even more true on a smaller screen like the Steam Deck's. I really don't like playing at 30 FPS ever these days but I could live with 40 in some titles, I think. There are probably also some games that I haven't intentionally tried to play at 40 FPS, but ended up with a lot of the gameplay in the low 40s anyway due to turning all the RT bells and whistles on (I'm thinking of Control and GotG particularly), and I didn't mind that either.

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2 hours ago, JamesS said:

 

It doesn't - you can switch the display to 40Hz (or any whole number between that and 60). So you can fiddle around with refresh rates until you get something that the game can consistently meet.


But 40Hz and 40fps aren’t the same thing, are they? Someone higher up the thread said you needed a 120Hz display (or 40, 80, or 160, I would imagine, if such things exist) to do 40Hz, but you can do 40fps on any display (albeit with tearing, presumably).

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Should point out this is all academic to me anyway, I can’t tell the difference so would go for all the shinies at 30 than all the frames at 40, 60 or whatever.

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The new Ratchet game does 40 frames on PS5. It looks ok, you need to set it to 120 in the menu and have it on fidelity mode. Your TV needs to have a 120Hz refresh too. Deffo better with it than without it on fidelity mode but it's no 60.

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3 hours ago, Benny said:

For 120hz screens I'd personally like to see more games offer 24fps modes.


24fps has nothing to do with 120hz sceeens tho!

 

2 hours ago, gooner4life said:


Spider-Man’s 40fps fidelity mode is insane on a VRR display, it’s pretty much between 90/120fps the whole time at 4K with Ray tracing 


Well it’s not, it’s 40fps with bfi 

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24 minutes ago, deKay said:

Should point out this is all academic to me anyway, I can’t tell the difference so would go for all the shinies at 30 than all the frames at 40, 60 or whatever.

 

I'm the complete opposite, I'll go for whatever the highest frame rate is that the game offers, I can barely tell the difference between 1080p and 4K these days anyway. Turn off that ray tracing rubbish, it's 120 fps or bust for me baby!

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10 hours ago, Rayn said:

Rule of thumb for me when it comes to video games is that gameplay is more important than graphics which in return often means better performance means better gameplay. So whenever I have the option to choose either performance mode, fidelity mode or something in between I tend to go for pure performance mode for the best gameplay feel. In some cases, though, the 40 fps option is a good trade off. It's still nowhere near a 60 fps flow, but 40 fps feels soooo much smoother than 30 fps, for some reason it feels a lot closer to 60 fps than 30 fps even though it's mathematically incorrect.


30fps - 33.33ms frame time

40fps - 25ms frame time

60fps - 16.67ms frame time


its almost halfway between in terms of frame time, hence the difference.

 

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On 28/06/2022 at 23:30, LaveDisco said:

I really think 40Hz is a sensible target for mid and late cycle PS5/Xbox SX games. So much better than 30Hz, but still gives room for all the pretties.

 

Unless UE5 finally gets stable, which is more likely to mean 30fps is back if you want THE GRAPHIX. It's surprising how bad it still works currently as-is.

 

Slightly off-topic, but unless flatpanels aren't universal these days, why not target 50Hz instead of 60Hz? marginally worse frametimes, more headroom for stable performance. China and Europe are both PAL so the NTSC advantages politically and economically are no longer as strong.

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On 28/06/2022 at 22:48, deKay said:


But 40Hz and 40fps aren’t the same thing, are they? Someone higher up the thread said you needed a 120Hz display (or 40, 80, or 160, I would imagine, if such things exist) to do 40Hz, but you can do 40fps on any display (albeit with tearing, presumably).

40 Hz gives 40fps. The reason 120fps can give smooth 40fps display is because it divides neatly. Show 40fps on a 60fps panel and it'll have to duplicate frames on every other frame, 120 gives an even display. It's why 50 Hz stuff looks way worse on a modern display, as every 5 frames it'll have to duplicate a frame resulting in hitching.

 

Screen tearing is something else entirely.

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23 minutes ago, Phantoon said:

It's why 50 Hz stuff looks way worse on a modern display, as every 5 frames it'll have to duplicate a frame resulting in hitching.


Surely most modern TVs can do 50Hz and 60Hz? Mine auto switches to 50Hz when there’s a 50Hz source, which is basically any kind of UK TV.

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