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Football thread 2022/23


Naysonymous
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1 hour ago, Plissken said:

No, he doesn't have a release clause.  It is too cheap - if I was being disingenuous, I would say he's only got 19 games of PL experience, two of which he committed serious ricks in.  The opposite to that is that he's only 21, slotted in next to James Tarkowski with a minimum of effort and fuss and it looked like we had found another PL quality centre back to anchor the defence for the next half decade.

 

There are a lot of changes afoot at Turf Moor and ALK are not so much using a new broom as an entire flamethrower.  (For good and for bad, I hasten to say.)  Maybe Collins was the last Dyche driven purchase and simply doesn't fit the new model which has seen us bring in six raw, young, talented players for the amount Newcastle gave us for Nick Pope.  Using the Collins sale to generate four more of those types of buys and that's a badly needed squad overhaul done.

 

It's definitely going to be interesting at Turf Moor this coming season.

Don’t know what you’re worrying about. Marking GCSE scripts and this was one answer which tickled me. 

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1 hour ago, Plissken said:

No, he doesn't have a release clause.  It is too cheap - if I was being disingenuous, I would say he's only got 19 games of PL experience, two of which he committed serious ricks in.  The opposite to that is that he's only 21, slotted in next to James Tarkowski with a minimum of effort and fuss and it looked like we had found another PL quality centre back to anchor the defence for the next half decade.

 

There are a lot of changes afoot at Turf Moor and ALK are not so much using a new broom as an entire flamethrower.  (For good and for bad, I hasten to say.)  Maybe Collins was the last Dyche driven purchase and simply doesn't fit the new model which has seen us bring in six raw, young, talented players for the amount Newcastle gave us for Nick Pope.  Using the Collins sale to generate four more of those types of buys and that's a badly needed squad overhaul done.

 

It's definitely going to be interesting at Turf Moor this coming season.

 

I'm curious about this optimism around the new regime.  You're paying much closer attention to the situation than I am, obviously, but I was of the understanding that the relegation was a disaster, basically.  An existential threat to the club itself, as the debts the new owners have saddled the club with are going to be difficult to pay off on a Championship income.  Is that not correct?  Is the situation more nuanced and complicated than that?

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Thanks for the very comprehensive reply!  I read every word.  :D

 

That does sound more hopeful, and of course no-one wants to see any club in financial danger.  You tend to see leveraged buyout plus relegation and think, "uh-oh."  I'd read and heard similiar from jounalists.  So the fact that the forum's foremost expert on the club didn't seem worried made me wonder if there was more to the situation, and it seems that there is.  I can't believe Nick Pope went for such a cheap fee though!  

 

Anyway, in other news, Man Utd's restoration at the very top of the football tree is complete following a pre-season victory over Liverpool.  Woo!  :omg:

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I've said before that football fans are very badly served by football journalists, who excel in received wisdom and can rarely be arsed to rise above lazy cliche.  They are paid to look but not see.  The best example is the sacking of Dyche.  Burnley FC were the worst performing club on the pitch of the entire 92 in the calendar year 2021.  He won 14 of his last 68 PL games.  That's two entire seasons of relegation form.  He gets sacked, the caretaker almost squeaks us to safety after getting 10 points in four games and when we do go down Roy Keane goes on Sky Sports and said "They should never have sacked Dyche" thus proving that he knows absolutely fuck all about anything and learns even less.

 

Popes fee is a reflection of the market.  IIRC, West Ham got Areola for £8m and Southampton Bazanu for £15m.  Most of the other clubs are set in goal, so the list of buyers was pretty small and they held the leverage.  We could have forced Pope to stay, but I genuinely believe that it was a case of doing right by a player who has been a great servant to the club for the last five years.

 

Collins I do think is undervalued but I don't know what the market is post-Covid.  I know Ben White went for £50m but that was to Arsenal and their transfer dealings operate in an entirely separate universe to everyone else.  Ake from Bournemouth to City for £40m is a decent comparison, but that was pre-Covid and City are well-known for paying over the odds but under the radar to get the player that they want.

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And while I'm on the subject of lazy journalism, Man Utd have been consistently successful in challenging for trophies, have one of the highest wage bills, can and have attracted the biggest players and managers in the game, kept up the repayments on the debt and made the Glazers an absolute fortune.

 

Whereas Chelsea did similar, winning lots of trophies, attracting great players, hoovering up just about all the prize and sponsorship money it could get but were subsidised by their owner to the tune of an average of £80m a season over the best part of two decades.

 

Yet one method of finance is evil and the other is not.  I'm not saying leveraged buyouts are good, or nice, or the right way, but *shrugs* go figure.

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I read all of that too @Plisskenstrikes me as change being needed at the club for the long term future and that's what the current owners are trying to do. Will it work? No one knows, as ever with these things, but it's a better option than just leaving things as they were and falling further behind.

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1 hour ago, Plissken said:

(Provided at heavy discount by a local firm, in exchange for using the Turf as a reference site for the supplier to show other clients.)

 

trust me they haven't ever sold anything at "RRP"!

 

I have no idea if Burnley got an actual good deal there, it's absolutely possible they did but it's always fun to see work-adjacent stuff come through. Pretty much any club lets their suppliers come in and show off because it makes them feel fancy and there's a chance to network and so on.

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Yeah, apparently Barca still owe money for players they've since sold. Junior Firpo for example. 

 

They're just getting themselves more and more in the shit. Surely it has to stop somewhere?

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16 hours ago, Mike1812 said:

Yeah, apparently Barca still owe money for players they've since sold. Junior Firpo for example. 

 

They're just getting themselves more and more in the shit. Surely it has to stop somewhere?

Doesn't it usually end start over again when the Spanish government and La Liga find some way to throw a massive pile of cash at Barca/ Real as special treatment that none of the other clubs ever get?

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17 hours ago, Mike1812 said:

Yeah, apparently Barca still owe money for players they've since sold. Junior Firpo for example. 

 

They're just getting themselves more and more in the shit. Surely it has to stop somewhere?

Certainly going to be interesting over the next few years as all the deferred wages they have agreed to start to come up. Will definitely happen to more than just De Jong.

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They'll just keep paying the most urgent bills off, then defer the rest with false promises and theoretical future earnings until the Spanish FA or UEFA creates a loophole where the club can auction hotdog stand rights or get a bigger slice of the TV rights in order to pay off their creditors.

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Any club looking for a highly rated 18yo Euros winning CM?

 

Villa seem to have finally decided Carney Chukwuemeka needs to shit or get off the pot in respect of a new contract he's had sitting there since last autumn, whilst newspaper stories circulate of every CL club in Europe fancying him. He's been pointedly left out of our preseason tour with the manager saying it's because he is stalling on the contract, so it seems we might be keen on flogging him now rather than lose him to Dortmund or the like for nothing next year.

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The fact that a the sale of a player is banked immediately and the purchase is amortised over the length of the contract feels like a highly convenient loophole (not just for Barca but a lot of clubs).  For each situation individually I understand why it make sense, but it seems stupid when you put both sides together.

 

(And that's before you find out that neither book-keeping method reflects when the money is actually paid.)  

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Is there something dodgy going on with these Barca transfers and finances? I can't make any sense of what they're trying to accomplish here. They only just signed Ferran Torres and Aubameyang, and re-signed Dembele. But now they are buying Raphinha and also want Lewandowski? And what about Depay and Ansu Fati?

 

When they are so cash-strapped this seems like a flagrant misuse of funds, even by their very low standards.

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7 minutes ago, The Fox said:

Is there something dodgy going on with these Barca transfers and finances? I can't make any sense of what they're trying to accomplish here. They only just signed Ferran Torres and Aubameyang, and re-signed Dembele. But now they are buying Raphinha and also want Lewandowski? And what about Depay and Ansu Fati?

 

When they are so cash-strapped this seems like a flagrant misuse of funds, even by their very low standards.

They've been selling off future TV rights to an American company and I think, in part, that's helping them to get some of these players in. They're trying to flog Depay and with Spotify sponsorships and Nike subsidising signings they're probably doing every shady thing possible to do these things. 

 

Seems very, very short-sighted and all likely to end in tears with a Saudi buyout 10 years down the line. 

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Yeah that's what I wondered - is Laporta trying to fuck their finances so badly, that the only way to save the club is to sell a huge wedge of it to an oil state, with him taking a nice handlers fee? I just can't fathom what they are doing otherwise. Like why on earth are they even thinking about 33-year-old Lewandowski when they already have Aubameyang and Torres to play at CF?

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Fati has been plagued with injuries so he may not be part of their thinking either, along with Depay. 

 

Lewandowski is a big name too which would help with commercial revenue, something they're going to need to grow aggressively given they're missing out on a huge chunk of TV revenue for the foreseeable. 

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FC Entitlement.

 

If they sell De Jong for £70m they can book that full amount immediately.  They buy Raphina for £50m and amortise that over a five year contract for £10m/season.  Same with Lewandowski.  Lo and behold, £50m profit!  This - combined with the selling off of bits - is supposed to get them out of the La Liga rules that state they must spent €1 Euro for every €3 that they receive and moves them to 1:1 which allows them to spend even more.

 

Of course, with things like deferred wages and instalments on transfers it is all a paper exercise anyway which bears no relation to the actual cashflow.

 

Edit: They did that trick with Juve as well I think, buying a player for €70m and selling one for the same amount which helped both of them hit FFP.

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22 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

When the shit really hits the fan they'll be hoping the ESL is their saviour...


They’ll take another run at pushing that through within six months. Or some other hare-brained idea like an expanded club World Cup in summer so players get no break until all their joints give out.

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On 14/07/2022 at 10:41, The Fox said:

Yeah that's what I wondered - is Laporta trying to fuck their finances so badly, that the only way to save the club is to sell a huge wedge of it to an oil state, with him taking a nice handlers fee? I just can't fathom what they are doing otherwise.

 

With the news that they've apparently agreed a fee for BSilva for 'less than 80m', I think this is the case, there's just been no logic to their transfers when they spend so much on players they don't need at all, i'd say Coutinho and Dembele were genuine* but Griezmann wasn't at all when the whole attack revolved around Messi and goals weren't something they struggled for, and when you always compete for the league and are in the champions league every season but the issue is them having lost their 'identity' in possession football, expensive attacking players that don't fit in shouldn't be in their thinking at all.

 

*makes some sense to think those fees were inflated due to the £200m everyone knew they got from Neymar and they were too overconfident in thinking they could easily replace Iniesta and Neymar with those players.

 

Journalists say that they were just betting on Barcelona being more successful and they couldn't predict covid, but there's a reason many fans consider Bartomeu as someone seemingly committed to ruining Barcelona like he's an agent for Real Madrid. Laporte was supposed to be the more sound president and that doesn't seem true at all. Raphael Honigstein joked Bayern don't think Barcelona will exist in 5 years time then had to say he wasn't serious, surely there's going to be a few books written about this period.

 

I know everyone hates Barcelona but for some reason being reckless with unneccessary spending bothers me, whether it's a club or people. I think they should have sold players they could get the most for, move on those on high contracts somehow, and brought youth through (but then who doesn't think that?). I don't think Raphinha and BSilva are making any difference whatsoever to what they success next season would have been now that Pedri and Gavi are the midfielders they've long needed and are the core of their future.

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Barca are either spending like they’ve won the lottery (buyout imminent?) or like a teenager who found a credit card and doesn’t know about how repayments work yet.

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They are technically fan owned so they can’t be bought out. (Interestingly, the Qatari owners of PSG are sniffing around Espanyol.)

 

But anyway, back to real football. Whoever is doing these deserves a raise.

 

 

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