Return to Monkey Island (2022) - Ron Gilbert onboard!

[Protocol Penguin]

Quick question: is this enjoyable for people who’ve forgotten basically everything about the classic Monkey Island games due to age and time?

[murray]

Absolutely. Plus there's a scrapbook on the main menu which you can use to recap the story. It's nicely done.

[Billy Brown]

Ah, that reminds me - be sure to check the very end of the scrapbook when you’re finished. 

[thesnwmn]

 

Teased sequel to Day of the Tentacle? (my favourite point and click of all time)

[yakumo]

My only gripe is I wish we can double  click on the mouse button to fast forward the dialogue instead having to press the . button to do that. Other than that, this game is glorious.

[b00dles]

I loved it and found it very interesting in terms of how streamlined it is and coming so soon after thimbleweed Park, it really shows that Ron and Dave just know how to make these games incredibly well.

 

Thimbleweed was almost "another" proper scumm point n click and had some of those slightly odd logic puzzles or bits that were almost obtuse red herrings and the like and this is pretty much a perfect sequel to monkey Island 2 and also a perfect game if you remember monkey Island but haven't really played many other point n click games since. 

 

It genuinely is really quite an achievement that it is so well balanced. Could I personally have done with it being longer or trickier? Yes. Do I understand why it wasn't and am impressed that it isn't? Even more so. 

The interface is really a genius next step in simplification and is way better than the coin from 3 and not having to continually hear your avatar say "I can't do that" because it won't even let you try and randomly combine a load of things is also a great bit of keeping it simple. Especially for people that may be coming back to this game after not really hunting out the many (not very good) other point n clicks that have happened over the years. 

 

I really hope they aren't burned out on the genre and this does well though as i would love for them to go a bit more modern as they clearly understand pacing and puzzles so well that I'm intrigued to know what that would look like. 

[Miner Willy]

I'm clearly thick, as I'm not finding it easy. Some of the puzzles are definitely pretty obvious, but I've also got stuck several times already. And the (spoiler from part 1)

Spoiler

forest trail map to find the mop tree

had me completely flummoxed, even when I knew what I had to do.

 

I'm taking it slow, so only just hit part 2, but yeah, it's great. So glad they made this.

[b00dles]

I did pretty much brute force that bit as I couldn't work out the relation of map to forest but I hated that same bit in the original 😋

 

I did also think the baked alaska bit didn't really "work" but I tried the solution rather than just trying everything with everything which certainly happened more in the older ones. 

 

I don't mean to be rude in regards to the difficulty, someone else up thread said it was "frictionless" which I think is a better way of putting it. It's also that I have played all of the lucasarts point n click games loads, as well as any and all (including some of the strange German ones) but this is intentionally pitched at a much wider audience. So I also play them in such a way that you probably "shouldn't" because of knowing a lot of the common ways that puzzles are put together in the genre. 

 

I got some genuine lols out of it too, the certain character's diary entries around the date this game was announced (without wanting to spoil anything hopefully) also cracked me up. 

[Unofficial Who]

I played this on "casual" mode with the zippier writing with the intention of replaying later on the harder difficulty. I suspect

 

Spoiler

there's a whole island that doesn't make an appearance in this mode as I didn't see mention of Cog Island until the end credits.

 

I did stumble on a quest line that wasn't part of the easier mode and the character giving out the quest took great pains to tell me that it wasn't part of that difficulty setting and was purely optional for this run and that I wouldn't get any rewards other than satisfaction for completing it.

 

I was going to wait until next year to replay this but I think I might just jump right back in!

[DarkCrisis]

Finished this earlier.

 

All in all I enjoyed the game, a decent combination of nostalgia, humour and puzzles. I still much prefer Monkey Island 1 & 2 but I would put that down to nostalgia.

 

Solid game which I would recommend to anyone who enjoys adventure games especially old school point & click.

 

Looking forward to what they do next(I’d love a Day of the Tentacle sequel)

[thesnwmn]

Finished this earlier.

 

Part 4 is really the meat of it. Still pretty streamlined but there were two puzzles that had me very slightly slower down. Perhaps more because of the number do things running in parallel that a few minor details slipped my mind rather than actually tricky puzzles.

 

The final puzzle in Part 5 did stump me for a little while (15 minutes or so). I had all the info but wasn't putting it together quite right...

 

Spoiler

My primary mistake was misinterpreting which wheel turned left and right. So applying the turns to the wrong one.

 

A good ending imo. I think in some ways the whole setup for and end of the game only really works because it's been so long since the second came out. I don't think you can make this game this way without a significant gap.

 

I think this is a good direction for point and clicks overall. Simplifying the range of options massive reduces wasted time listening to the same "not in this way" lines all the time. But I wonder if you can ever make a game quite as "hard" without that. Was MI2 actually trickier or was it just happy to waste your time and drag it out (both due to all item interactions being possible as well as slight misdirection).

 

The music is superb. Utterly amazing throughout.

 

As for the much maligned art style... Loved it. I wasn't drawn to it at first but within 30 minutes or so I was enamoured with it.

 

I think I'll be driving back in soon for some trivia and achievements. Might play it on casual too to see the differences.

[thesnwmn]

Just the speed run achievement to go now.

 

I've cheated to find the hidden ones and the trivia answers but even so I've enjoyed learning those bits of info and exploring the world in the game more.

[yakumo]

Oh man 1 last chapter left, easily one of the best games I played this year. 

[Unofficial Who]

On 26/09/2022 at 04:51, thesnwmn said:

I think I'll be driving back in soon for some trivia and achievements. Might play it on casual too to see the differences.

 

I think you might find casual mode too easy now, I'd recommend anyone wanting to play both modes to do casual first just so you can get blindsided by some of the alterations to the puzzle chains second time round,

 

Still any excuse to play it a second time is a good one. I adored this game. A great follow up after the disappointments of Escape and Tales.

[thesnwmn]

4 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

I think you might find casual mode too easy now, I'd recommend anyone wanting to play both modes to do casual first just so you can get blindsided by some of the alterations to the puzzle chains second time round,

 

Still any excuse to play it a second time is a good one. I adored this game. A great follow up after the disappointments of Escape and Tales.

 

I've played both now. Casual has been fun for just exploring and gathering cards (which requires lots of replaying stuff). It will also be needed for the speedrun so needed to get familiar.

 

But it's far far too simple to be fun first time imo. I'd always play the normal/hard difficulty (cannot remember what it's called) first.

 

That way round I'd was surprised when I didn't have to do something but no way to have anything spoilt about the other puzzles or how it plays out.

[b00dles]

On 25/09/2022 at 19:51, thesnwmn said:

Finished this earlier.

 

Part 4 is really the meat of it. Still pretty streamlined but there were two puzzles that had me very slightly slower down. Perhaps more because of the number do things running in parallel that a few minor details slipped my mind rather than actually tricky puzzles.

 

The final puzzle in Part 5 did stump me for a little while (15 minutes or so). I had all the info but wasn't putting it together quite right...

 

  Hide contents

My primary mistake was misinterpreting which wheel turned left and right. So applying the turns to the wrong one.

 

A good ending imo. I think in some ways the whole setup for and end of the game only really works because it's been so long since the second came out. I don't think you can make this game this way without a significant gap.

 

I think this is a good direction for point and clicks overall. Simplifying the range of options massive reduces wasted time listening to the same "not in this way" lines all the time. But I wonder if you can ever make a game quite as "hard" without that. Was MI2 actually trickier or was it just happy to waste your time and drag it out (both due to all item interactions being possible as well as slight misdirection).

 

The music is superb. Utterly amazing throughout.

 

As for the much maligned art style... Loved it. I wasn't drawn to it at first but within 30 minutes or so I was enamoured with it.

 

I think I'll be driving back in soon for some trivia and achievements. Might play it on casual too to see the differences.

Did you play thimbleweed Park?

 

Because although that has some of the more awkward trappings of the early incarnations of the genre, with the character switching and individual inventories for them, I found the puzzles generally harder in that. 

 

That is to say, I'm not sure if they would be "easier" if it removed the verb commands and ability to try various things on other things. 

 

That's why I think this is so clever, it's the same team but a very different level of difficulty. 

[thesnwmn]

3 hours ago, b00dles said:

Did you play thimbleweed Park?

 

Because although that has some of the more awkward trappings of the early incarnations of the genre, with the character switching and individual inventories for them, I found the puzzles generally harder in that. 

 

That is to say, I'm not sure if they would be "easier" if it removed the verb commands and ability to try various things on other things. 

 

That's why I think this is so clever, it's the same team but a very different level of difficulty. 

 

Yes. I loved a lot of Thimbleweed Park. And I'd agree to an extent with it being more than the verbs for example that makes puzzles hard.

 

But in this there.are two things that make the puzzles easier in my opinion.

 

First, I actually think the puzzles are more logical for the most part. And where they're not logical if argue they all have some quite big clues. Not to say that sometimes you're not scratching your head but re-examining each sign or chatting to characters again often revealed a little detail that unlocked the solution.

 

But maybe more than that is that the game respects your time in two fundamental ways. First, removing the verb system and having contextual interaction simplifies world interaction. No more "I cannot open that", "I won't push that", only to find that "pull" works perfectly well. Second, only allowing item interactions that are valid. This doesn't mean you don't ever pick up an item and trying it with others or with parts of the world but when you do it is quick.

 

All the above removes the tiresome trial and error and let me sit back and enjoy thinking through the solutions. MI2 is particularly terrible in a few places for just fuck it I know what I need to achieve but cannot work out what fucked up way I'm meant to (monkey wrench?)

 

Back to Thimbleweed I think the multi character thing adds a layer of difficulty I enjoy. Used correctly it's not making the puzzle itself actually harder but making you think or remember additional bits. Move a few more pieces to achieve it. It's a simplified version of Day Of The Tentacle where the multi-character and time periods makes for many very inventive puzzles. It's hard but so logical in some ways.

 

I'd like to see a new DotT with the RtMI interface. Strip away the busy work and obfuscation and make some tricky time bending puzzles please.

[JoeK]

I absolutely love the way the scene transitions happen. I always loved how they did the whole 'meanwhile on Lechuck's ghost ship' scenes', but this takes all that sort of stuff to the next level entirely. 

And, because I hadn't put the game on for a while, I loaded up the save and was able to know exactly what was going on by the lovely little father/son conversation. All games should have something like that really.

 

Definitely convinced by the game now  

[b00dles]

29 minutes ago, thesnwmn said:

 

Yes. I loved a lot of Thimbleweed Park. And I'd agree to an extent with it being more than the verbs for example that makes puzzles hard.

 

But in this there.are two things that make the puzzles easier in my opinion.

 

First, I actually think the puzzles are more logical for the most part. And where they're not logical if argue they all have some quite big clues. Not to say that sometimes you're not scratching your head but re-examining each sign or chatting to characters again often revealed a little detail that unlocked the solution.

 

But maybe more than that is that the game respects your time in two fundamental ways. First, removing the verb system and having contextual interaction simplifies world interaction. No more "I cannot open that", "I won't push that", only to find that "pull" works perfectly well. Second, only allowing item interactions that are valid. This doesn't mean you don't ever pick up an item and trying it with others or with parts of the world but when you do it is quick.

 

All the above removes the tiresome trial and error and let me sit back and enjoy thinking through the solutions. MI2 is particularly terrible in a few places for just fuck it I know what I need to achieve but cannot work out what fucked up way I'm meant to (monkey wrench?)

 

Back to Thimbleweed I think the multi character thing adds a layer of difficulty I enjoy. Used correctly it's not making the puzzle itself actually harder but making you think or remember additional bits. Move a few more pieces to achieve it. It's a simplified version of Day Of The Tentacle where the multi-character and time periods makes for many very inventive puzzles. It's hard but so logical in some ways.

 

I'd like to see a new DotT with the RtMI interface. Strip away the busy work and obfuscation and make some tricky time bending puzzles please.

Yeah I see what you mean and think we're in agreement o/

 

I wonder if the "ease" is just the fact you get told a lot of the solutions by relevant characters very often, which is in itself a choice. They don't need to make sure a particular character that wants a different book to read specifically say things like (minor "spoilers" below for one particular puzzle)

Spoiler

'the other ones are too short, I wish they didn't end' and you've found one of... 6 (iirc) that's called "the neverending really long book"

This is an unfair example in a way because not all of the puzzles are that level of 'obvious' but it just shows how tricky that balancing act really is, in regards to hints and/ or just telling the player what to do. 

 

I found it very interesting listening to the commentary on DotT (as you mention it) where Tim schafer talks about the way the rain triggers by washing the car as he grew up with that 'saying' being totally ingrained and found it very surprising how many people got stuck on that first time around. 

 

I didn't even do it knowingly first time I played it; dirty car and the eventual bucket of soapy water and sponge (iirc) it just "made sense" for me to wash the car, not that I had any concept that it would make it rain. 

 

I bloody love point n click games and find them fascinating in regards to their construction and so on. I could waffle for ages 😋 

[Thor]

Er, guys can we avoid spoilers for other games please? I'm yet to play Thimbleweed Park. 

[b00dles]

I think the only Spoiler specifically not put in tags was the one for Tentacle which is surely way past the statute of limitations 😋

[Thor]

15 hours ago, b00dles said:

I think the only Spoiler specifically not put in tags was the one for Tentacle which is surely way past the statute of limitations 😋

That'll teach me for skim-reading! 

[yakumo]

Am I missing something?

 

Spoiler

No three headed monkey??

 

[yakumo]

Just finished it. Not a fan of the ending at all, just finished it but that felt like a gut punch. 

 

 

[thesnwmn]

I loved the ending

 

Spoiler

s

 

[El Stevo]

5 hours ago, yakumo said:

Am I missing something?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

No three headed monkey??

 

 

Spoiler

Look behind you

 

 

 

I've really enjoyed this. The music is glorious and I quite liked the art style in the end. Like the rest of the game, it feels like an affectionate riff on the rest of the series. It would be difficult for it to live up to the art in Curse, which was incredible, but this was fine.

 

I have found it slightly easier going than I remember earlier games being, but that's probably just because I am now trained to look for for the clues and cues that the game sprinkles about. I did get stuck on a particularly poorly telegraphed inventory-combining puzzle later in the game, but that was the only fun-sappind dead stop I experienced. It's a lovely game otherwise!

[yakumo]

3 hours ago, thesnwmn said:

I loved the ending

 

  Reveal hidden contents

s

 

I would have BUT...

 

Spoiler

Clever first time in 2, but he did this in Thimbleweed as well. It would have been nice to have one last hurrah with a fight with LeChuck. I understand its subversive, maybe playing it again I change my mind. But at the moment I feel like I been blue balled.

 

[NexivRed]

I was extremely disappointed by this. Extremely. 
 

I played on hard mode and thought the puzzles were extremely one dimensional. You know the balance is wrong when you see items or areas, and fantasise about how they can be used or what can be done there in the future….and there’s just nothing. 
 

It was extremely short. That wasn’t twenty quids worth whatsoever. 
 

Hardly any multiple step problems. Aside from having to complete one thing before you can complete another, the actual individual puzzles don’t seem to require any ingenuity or creativity. 
 

 

Sigh. I’ve played the others. This one was seriously lacking something. Excitement was short lived and satisfaction was rarely there or lasting. So much was obvious that it seemed like going through the motions.
And this isn’t a gloat about how good I am. It’s a criticism of how you spend more time clicking to travel around the maps than you do thinking about how you can use the items around you and in your inventory. 

 

It’s taken me a week to finally admit to myself I was disappointed. I didn’t want to. Especially as I pushed to get it right away at full price. Feel ashamed for wasting the money tbh. 

[MK-1601]

Re earlier discussion: Don't bother with the casual mode. It's not a very hard game and you have both the hint book and unsubtle dialogue options to turn to in the event you actually do get stuck.

 

Judging game value by length, lol.

 

I think my main disappointment with it is that it doesn't feel quite as cinematic as MI2. Richard Cobbett wrote a good article years ago breaking down why MI2 works so well:

 

Le Chuck is played straight pretty much. Le Chuck and Guybrush aren't on screen together until the last act at which point he always instantly attacks. Now all the main characters are wisecracking old friends, and a large chunk of time and game world are content to retread the quite narrow scope of MI1, which Escape already did once.

 

I still really liked it (the way the opening ties directly to MI2 is INCREDIBLE), it's probably my second favourite of the series after MI2, but to use Twin Peaks The Return as an analogy it's very much the 'all your old pals are back eating donuts and coffee' parts rather than the 'insane medium redefining nightmare' parts.

[NexivRed]

12 hours ago, MK-1601 said:

 

Judging game value by length, lol.

Pretty normal. What’s your problem. 
 

 

Also, the ending was awful.