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The gaming subscription service thread (Game Pass, PS+ etc)


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21 minutes ago, CrichStand said:


Which 100% backs up what I’m saying. Returnal - one of the best games ever made, that is brand new IP, technically stunning, has exceptional gameplay and is pushing things forward, critically acclaimed and will more than likely be game of the year on here........doesn’t sell that many copies.
 

CoD - an annual release, year after year, shonky campaigns, doesn’t push anything forward, gets middling reviews and seems to be classed as a disappointment.......sells bucket loads. So who do you tailor your services and games toward in order to make shitloads of cash?


Your argument applies to the £70 a game model too though. In fact even more so. Why would anyone build another returnal when they could make way more money in one off payments.  Contrast that with striking a deal with a subscription provider where they either get paid up front or number of downloads or plays or whatever metric you choose. That to me encourages devs to try different things to drive those stats up and not just say one purchases like they do with the current model.  Surely that would mean you get a more varied approach to games turning a profit. 

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1 hour ago, El Spatula said:

That's fine then. Enjoy. People are more willing to accept shite because its on gamepass and 'free'. If you can't see a problem with that it's okay.  The Kool Aid is doing it's thing.


With all due respect that is bullshit.

 

Look at 12 Minutes. On GamePass and largely derided as rubbish.

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The reality is that if you want a subscription service to really hit it big then you kind of need the lowest common denominator stuff along with the prestige titles. Netflix didn't get to 220 million subs just off the back of Oscar bait and shows that could slot in on HBO. It also did it by producing an avalanche of trashy reality TV, cooking shows, true-crime docs, completely inoffensive teen rom-coms etc to really hit all corners of the viewing spectrum. You don't hit hundreds of millions of subscribers by just going prestige or you end up in a niche like Apple TV+ 

 

The same will be true of Gamepass. I expect there to be some hand-wringing when it turns out that not all of Microsoft's billion game studios are working on blockbusters and cinematic prestige titles but if they're to achieve their aim they have to think much broader than that and it may result in games that get dismissed on here but which are ultimately going to be necessary to it succeeding at the scale they want.

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1 hour ago, Doctor Shark said:


I don’t know. Do I? What game is that? 

He's referring to Returnal, which launched without any dedicated mid-run save function and Housemarque essentially just said "Lol, just use the rest mode," until it generated enough ire for them to patch something in. So you could say it launched unfinished.

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6 hours ago, CrichStand said:


Which 100% backs up what I’m saying. Returnal - one of the best games ever made, that is brand new IP, technically stunning, has exceptional gameplay and is pushing things forward, critically acclaimed and will more than likely be game of the year on here........doesn’t sell that many copies.
 

CoD - an annual release, year after year, shonky campaigns, doesn’t push anything forward, gets middling reviews and seems to be classed as a disappointment.......sells bucket loads. So who do you tailor your services and games toward in order to make shitloads of cash?

If it was on Game Pass way more people would have played it by now and only more going forward as the subscriber base grows. 
 

I mean look at Fortnite, the biggest game of the planet. It’s free, doesn’t require a subscription or purchase of any kind to play. Didn’t stop Returnal from being developed or any number of interesting and innovative games, many of which are on Game Pass. 
 

The idea that having COD on your service somehow dilutes the rest of your catalogue is without any grounding. 
 

 

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7 hours ago, El Spatula said:

That's fine then. Enjoy. People are more willing to accept shite because its on gamepass and 'free'. If you can't see a problem with that it's okay.  The Kool Aid is doing it's thing.


Lol wtf is this? That’s not what people are saying. Certainly not what I’m saying. Companies making buggy, unfinished “shite” isn’t exclusive to gamepass. It happens regardless, unfortunately, and is a bitter indictment of the gaming industry today. Also, It’s not that people are more willing to accept it on gamepass, but that helps avoid spending their hard-earned on something which it turns out is shite. 

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7 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:


With all due respect that is bullshit.

 

Look at 12 Minutes. On GamePass and largely derided as rubbish.

 

And yet loads of people did actually play it so engagement wise it's done well and is a success. I'm out of this. It's so incredibly frustrating to talk about gamepass on this forum unless you're a fully paid up convert. It's like talking to Cryptobros.

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At the end of the day, the more options people have to access their games the better.

 

I sub to Netflix, Disney and YouTube but still buy the music and films I like on physical media. It's old fashioned thinking at this point I know, but I enjoy knowing I own the thing and that my access to it isn't dependent on a continuous ability to pay a subscription.

 

It's also the (relatively rare) instances where a license expires and the content is pulled. Outrun, Platinum's Turtles game and I believe all of Activision's Spiderman games have been delisted from digital stores due to expired licenses. In a streaming only future, those games would be lost to the consumer forever.

 

Streaming services will be great for many people, others will use them in addition to making regular digital / physical purchases and some will just stick with the old model until it breaks. So long as all options are kept on the table, it's all good. 

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7 hours ago, Gabe said:

He's referring to Returnal, which launched without any dedicated mid-run save function and Housemarque essentially just said "Lol, just use the rest mode," until it generated enough ire for them to patch something in. So you could say it launched unfinished.


Oh. I dunno, not seen much about it (no ps5 :( )

 

I wasn’t referring to any specific game, but just look at, say, Cyberpunk, GTA trilogy, Battlefield 2042. All “premium” titles, all released in a complete state and none of which are on Gamepass. So it’s not like gamepass gives devs free reign to make stuff poorly because people will forgive it. 

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Also, I don’t use gamepass as much as I probably should. For me, gamepass has been good for two things:

 

1 - getting me to try games I’d probably never have bought 

 

2 - putting games on the service which I’ve recently bought (to the point where I just stop buying games on the Xbox)

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I’d love to give Returnal a go and I’ve got a PlayStation 5 sitting next to my TV ready to do so (along with a Switch and a Series X), but like fuck am I paying £70 for something I’m not 100% sure I’ll enjoy. 
 

If someone who’s as engaged with games to the level am isn’t willing to risk £70 on it then how can you expect the average game buyer who plays just COD or FIFA to give it a go?
 

Stick it on GamePass though and soooo many more eyes and hands are gonna get a chance to give it a go. Many might bounce right off it I’m sure, but I’ve got to believe that it would result in way more people chomping at the bit for Housemarques next game. 
 

It’s got to be a positive surely? 

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10 hours ago, Majora said:

Netflix, Spotify and the like has shown that most consumers literally just do not care about the concept of media ownership anymore.


People have been listening to music on the radio, watching terrestrial/satellite/cable TV and going to the cinema without owning the song/show/film they are enjoying for generations.
 

Streaming services didn’t invent that.

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I wonder if Netflix is the only viable model for streaming services? Would a rental model work too I wonder? Pay whatever for 24hrs worth of access, but the money you spent on renting each game would be discounted from a full purchase of the game if you chose to? Too complicated, too difficult to pitch the pricing right, not as lucrative as a set sub?

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Game Pass is certainly good for someone like me who likes to own almost all of the acclaimed games but only actually has time and energy to play a few games. I like them sitting there in my play queue, luxuriating in knowing I could play them once I get around to it. Annoying years later when I actually think about playing one of them and find they rolled off the service ages ago.

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18 minutes ago, Robo_1 said:

I wonder if Netflix is the only viable model for streaming services? Would a rental model work too I wonder? Pay whatever for 24hrs worth of access, but the money you spent on renting each game would be discounted from a full purchase of the game if you chose to? Too complicated, too difficult to pitch the pricing right, not as lucrative as a set sub?

 

Game Pass already does discounts on purchasing games through the service, it's not anti-purchasing games, it sits alongside them. It's a no-downside system, that's why your post about it destroying the variety or whatever was so weird.

 

Weird how we never had any of these posts about how evil Blockbuster was in the early 00s, eh? Things change when console fanboyism gets involved.

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14 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

.. that's why your post about it destroying the variety or whatever was so weird.

 

I don't recall saying anything along those lines. Link me up and I'll be happy to address it.

 

For the record though I don't think that at all. I think free from the pressures of every game needing to earn it's own individual development costs back, the streaming model can actually allow developers to take more risks and promote a greater variety of games.

 

There was no underhanded attempt at knocking Gamepass in my post, I was sincerely just looking to explore possible alternative business models in the streaming space.

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51 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

Game Pass already does discounts on purchasing games through the service, it's not anti-purchasing games, it sits alongside them. It's a no-downside system, that's why your post about it destroying the variety or whatever was so weird.

 

Weird how we never had any of these posts about how evil Blockbuster was in the early 00s, eh? Things change when console fanboyism gets involved.

 

I think you read a lot into @Robo_1's post that wasn't actually there.

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6 minutes ago, Rex Grossman said:

I think you read a lot into @Robo_1's post that wasn't actually there.

 

I think / hope he's just attributed somebody else's post to me and he's read that other post in that context. I've no beef with RJ, I think we did go back and forth a bit in the console wars of old but it's not something I get excited about anymore. Well unless we're talking Spectrum and C64, you never forget your first. :lol:

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My first was the Vic 20, we didn’t even own it - my dads work had a computer club where you kind of borrowed them for a month at a time or something. First I owned was C64 though. C64 + Jeff Minter = gaming heaven :wub:

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14 hours ago, CrichStand said:

I find it bizarre how people claim these services are consumer friendly, when it’s locking you into a digital rental service and taking away your choice to buy and sell as a consumer.

 

OK - direct question: How exactly does GP take away choice for the consumer?

 

I mean, you do realise those 25m or so GP subscribers can still, shock horror, buy and sell games (both physically and digitally) right? Or are you saying that, as a GP subscriber, if I go into a shop like CEX somebody from MS is going to bundle me to the ground and stop me buying stuff?

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I'd say it is to do with the topic even if it's somewhat tangential. MS are obviously doing this to make gamepass more attractive to more people and tie consumers into their product. It's intrinsically linked to gamepass as an offering. If people see negatives in the gamepass model, that seems relevant to this purchase.

 

I would also say the discussion probably wouldn't descend into such nit-picking nonsense if, every time someone mentioned gamepass in less than adoring terms a whole load of gamepass evangalists didn't pile onto them. Not everyone loves gamepass, that's fine.

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45 minutes ago, 5R7 said:

could somebody take all the crap, which has nothing to do with the topic, and is now just game pass baaaaad,  out of this thread and stick it in the Console WarZZZZZZZZZZZ thread where it belongs! please and thank you!

 

I think GP is great (not that I have it, I only have a Switch) but I think there are legitimate questions and debates being raised in this thread that have only come up because of the acquisition.

 

Your attempt to frame it as an anti-MS angle is beyond lazy and just shows how needlessly defensive people like you get over things like this. I, like many people with sense, would never go in the Console Wars thread because it's full of bullshit posts like yours.

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35 minutes ago, David Kenny said:

I would also say the discussion probably wouldn't descend into such nit-picking nonsense if, every time someone mentioned gamepass in less than adoring terms a whole load of gamepass evangalists didn't pile onto them. Not everyone loves gamepass, that's fine.

 

"less than adoring" would be fine - it's "total, utter, incorrect bullshit" that tends to get people responding. Let's not try and make out the 'GP' folks here are the ones doing the mental gymnastics.

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2 minutes ago, rgraves said:

 

"less than adoring" would be fine - it's "total, utter, incorrect bullshit" that tends to get people responding. Let's not try and make out the 'GP' folks here are the ones doing the mental gymnastics.

 

Maybe, just maybe, people will have a different view on the streaming model than you (or indeed I) do? That doesn't mean it's "total, utter, incorrect bullshit".

Someone had said that if you only wanted to play say COD and FIFA you could buy them and then sell them on and it would be cheaper than GP. That's possible. Someone else said they were worried that a focus on streaming rather than owning could make developers create certain types of games that were better suited to streaming and the other types would take a back seat. That's possible.

 

Unquestioning loyalty to an ecosystem isn't super-healthy. 

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8 minutes ago, Rex Grossman said:

 

Maybe, just maybe, people will have a different view on the streaming model than you (or indeed I) do? That doesn't mean it's "total, utter, incorrect bullshit".

Someone had said that if you only wanted to play say COD and FIFA you could buy them and then sell them on and it would be cheaper than GP. That's possible. Someone else said they were worried that a focus on streaming rather than owning could make developers create certain types of games that were better suited to streaming and the other types would take a back seat. That's possible.

 

Unquestioning loyalty to an ecosystem isn't super-healthy. 

 

A different view - of course - but if that different 'view' is bullshit then what?

 

"yeah it has 100+ games, but they're all cheap crap" - is that a different view, or just nonsense?

"It's cheaper to buy two games" - you can buy two games for 10:99?

"GP removes consumer choice" - it stops people doing their normal stuff?

 

It's odd when just holding people to their rubbish, mis-truths, and lies leads to being accused of 'unquestioning loyalty'....especially when CrichStand is in the room....

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I was just thinking about the services the two offer for gamers and although this is off the top of my head and I've probably missed a few options, this is what I could remember. Does this sound about right?

 

MS's options are:

 

Gold - Basic online gaming subscription, with a few games added for you to play each month.

Gamepass - Subscription to around 200 games, plus the option to buy outright at a cheaper price.

Buy Digital - Usual thing. A bit more expensive than physical for convenience. Plenty of sales though if you don't mind waiting.

Buy Physical - Cheapest way to buy and outright own a game.

xCloud - Streaming on any device that supports it for a subscription fee.

 

Sony's options are:

 

PlayStation+ - Subscription similar to Gold, , with a few games added for you to play each month.

Buy Digital - Usual thing. A bit more expensive than physical for convenience. Plenty of sales though if you don't mind waiting.

Buy Physical - Cheapest way to buy and outright own a game.

 

I can understand the worries of people thinking gamepass is a Trojan horse and the quality of games could potentially suffer, but nobody really knows how it's going to pan out yet, so I don't see any point in assuming the worst.

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