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Pokémon Scarlet/Violet - 2022


deKay
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Bought 2 copies of each as our main Christmas gifts, my youngest and eldest have bagged the copies of Violet (though they don't know theyre actually getting them) so that's me and the middle one with Scarlet.

 

Actually really looking forward to playing a Pokémon game as I've not really played any properly since Silver and Gold (I played a bit of one of the 3DS ones but not much), especially looking forward to all of us starting at the same time come Christmas day 

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I've only played as far the first Pokemon Center and yeah it's rough. The first Pokemon game on a new system is usually technically ropy but they sort it out by the second. Lumiose City in X had a terrible framerate on the 3DS but by the time Sun and Moon game out the games were solid but this is a definite step back from Sw/Sh from what I've played so far. I'm currently replaying Platinum on DS to sort out my Living Dex and what stands out most of me he is slow and laggy the game is, on the DS the games would take an age to save but battles, menus etc would all appear quickly but in Sc/Vio there always a slight delay whenever you want to do anything. 

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5 minutes ago, deerokus said:

This looks so amateurish. Do they get local school kids in during crunch to get these games out the door?

 

 

 

They don't get anyone in. They make the core game. It performs terribly. It sells a metric fuckton.

 

At this point (and for a long time) Pokémon is s pure business. Would making it run better or look better (by spending more time, money or both) sell a meaningful number of extra copies. If they conclude the answer is no then this is where we are.

 

Kids love this. Many adults love this. Even those who might elsewhere not go near anything that's such a technically limited offering. But you bend your own rules for the things you want to play regardless of its quality.

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1 hour ago, wev said:

If the assests are low quality why would the performance be so poor? Is it just poor optimisation? Can it be fixed in patches?

 

Because performance is arguably only loosely related to asset quality. Obviously it is in some ways. The same engine with different (more/less detail or number) assets will run better or worse. But a shit engine is shit.

 

And terrible low effort artistic choices like the eating thing in one of the posts aren't helping. Game Freak are a low effort studio. A do the bare minimum group. Their effort is in designing and merchandising Pokémon themselves.

 

This is not getting fixed in patches. Patches will only exist to fix issues that making getting precious shinies too easy.

 

Why would they? On to the next game. Give it two or three games and maybe they'll have smoothed things out a little.

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1 hour ago, moosegrinder said:

 

I'd say Game Freak are shit/incredibly time limited to make best use of the Switch's aging hardware.

On top of that they're a relatively small studio and seem to be trapped in a routine of at least one big game a year.

 

Combination of factors but they're clearly rushing these out without the resources to make a half decent product. 

 

They *could* take 4 years to make a real banger but that would make less money than releasing 4 or 5 clunkers. 

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It's still worth a play.

They back themselves into a corner Game Freak, they have this franchise which revolves around 100's of Pokemon in each game, most of which have 3 evolution states, and each of these Pokemon can learn multiple moves, then they make 2 versions of this game, the amount of work is astronomical and ends up with corners cut.

If I was running Pokemon I'd reboot the whole thing, cut it back to a smaller Pokedex, only include the fan fave Pokemon (there's some terrible Pokemon now that look like a couple of pingpong balls with a smiley face drawn on them), then make future proof new models for a reduced amount of Pokemon and build from that base, but no, that makes too much sense.

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27 minutes ago, wev said:

That's a shame, I'm still looking forward to playing it with the kids though and they probably won't give a fuck about assets and frame rates and all that.

I dunno, my 9 yo loved learning the word "shonky" from me this weekend just gone and using it to describe any new jank we see in the game. He would often describe it as 'laggy' even though I keep trying to tell him that low-framerate isn't the same as lag! We just have to stop and laugh sometimes.  Seeing a windmill in the distance that animates at like 12fps is hilarious.  People disappearing for no reason.  It's terrible.  It really does look like a bad PS2 game at times, but one being run on a PC emulator that can't handle the task. 

 

The characters and the mons themselves look great, there's some nice texture work and there's a nice lighting/self shadowing thing going on. 

 

And that pokedex aesthetic, man! 💛

 

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6 minutes ago, robdood said:

I dunno, my 9 yo loved learning the word "shonky" from me this weekend just gone and using it to describe any new jank we see in the game. He would often describe it as 'laggy' even though I keep trying to tell him that low-framerate isn't the same as lag! We just have to stop and laugh sometimes.  Seeing a windmill in the distance that animates at like 12fps is hilarious.  People disappearing for no reason.  It's terrible.  It really does look like a bad PS2 game at times, but one being run on a PC emulator that can't handle the task. 

 

The characters and the mons themselves look great, there's some nice texture work and there's a nice lighting/self shadowing thing going on. 

 

And that pokedex aesthetic, man! 💛

 

 

I'd argue that low frame rate can be defined as lag. It's just local lag. A latency between input and the event being displayed on the screen.

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1 minute ago, thesnwmn said:

 

I'd argue that low frame rate can be defined as lag. It's just local lag. A latency between input and the event being displayed on the screen.

Oh for sure!  YOU PEDANT 😁

 

But, I'd say 'low framerate' has less chance of being misunderstood as something else generally 😅

 

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I think they've been too ambitionous for their own good and now the games are going for visuals over performance. They don't have the manpower of UbiSoft yet they have been releasing an open world game every year for the last three (Sw/Sh has some open world so I'm including it). The fans insistence that they can see Pokemon in the field instead of random battles means they need to be on screen as much as they can which now means there is lots of pop in as the hardware struggles to cope with loading them and their behavior along with the environment and the day night cycle. In the old games they could hide it by putting in brief loading screens when entering towns of a certain size or even the Pokemon Center but now even that you can walk into straight from the field. They are never going to reboot it because wiping out the existing Dex would mean the end of Home and would annoy all of those fans who have been playing it for years but they need a break, a new game every year clearly isn't sustainable and even Ubi finally acknowledges that with the AC franchise. Personally I think the series peaked with Black and White  and the move to 3D hasn't helped at all. 

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30 minutes ago, Melon_Bread said:

It's still worth a play.

They back themselves into a corner Game Freak, they have this franchise which revolves around 100's of Pokemon in each game, most of which have 3 evolution states, and each of these Pokemon can learn multiple moves, then they make 2 versions of this game, the amount of work is astronomical and ends up with corners cut.

If I was running Pokemon I'd reboot the whole thing, cut it back to a smaller Pokedex, only include the fan fave Pokemon (there's some terrible Pokemon now that look like a couple of pingpong balls with a smiley face drawn on them), then make future proof new models for a reduced amount of Pokemon and build from that base, but no, that makes too much sense.

Yeah, I'd like something a bit like a mashup of Jurassic Park, Pokémon Snap and one of those deer hunting simulators.  Creeping round an island, spying on pokemon from a distance, laying traps and catching them.  Not having a pre-determined pokedex, having to work out which creatures evolve from which, etc.  Man that'd be GREAT. 

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6 minutes ago, ryodi said:

 They are never going to reboot it because wiping out the existing Dex would mean the end of Home and would annoy all of those fans who have been playing it for years but they need a break, a new game every year clearly isn't sustainable and even Ubi finally acknowledges that with the AC franchise. Personally I think the series peaked with Black and White  and the move to 3D hasn't helped at all. 

 

There must be Pokemon people have in home that are not in the game so they cannot transfer, they just make home a place to log all your Pokemon across every game, like a master Dex and if those pokemon are in the new rebooted game it you can transfer. I'd scrap home completely hardly anyone uses it.

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8 minutes ago, Strafe said:


:blink:


Pokemon games have never been that good looking. Compare the visuals of the 3DS games to the Yokai Watch games, they look very basic  in comparison and even Monster Hunter Stories looks a lot better than Sun and Moon.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Melon_Bread said:

 

There must be Pokemon people have in home that are not in the game so they cannot transfer, they just make home a place to log all your Pokemon across every game, like a master Dex and if those pokemon are in the new rebooted game it you can transfer. I'd scrap home completely hardly anyone uses it.


A lot of Pokemon have not been in the Switch games so far but can be transferred to Home. As long as Bank still works on 3DS you can still transfer a Pokemon from the GBA games all the way to Sw/Sh. I think you underestimate how popular Home is, a lot of the old Pokemon fans are still using Mon they captured nearly 20 years ago and one of the appeals of the games is that you can still do that. I am one of those people and I think a lot more people that you think will be upset is they cut out that comparability. Cutting off all those old Pokemon would also make remaking the old games pointless and they aren’t going to leave the money those make on the table, I expect remakes of Black / White in the next year or so.

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10 minutes ago, ryodi said:

Pokemon games have never been that good looking. Compare the visuals of the 3DS games to the Yokai Watch games, they look very basic  in comparison and even Monster Hunter Stories looks a lot better than Sun and Moon.

 

I think the point is that if this is them "going for visuals" then they are having a laugh.

This is not a genuinely attractive game. It is not a visual tour de force by any standards.

Sw/Sh and this have their charms but are very plain. it's not that simple cannot be attractive but they're not.

 

The Let's Go games were imo genuinely good looking.

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Any idea if MonolithSoft were involved in this at all? I know they lent a hand on BOTW, Sw/Sh and Arceus, and generally have a rep as being Nintendo's technical fix-up crew, particularly for open world stuff.

 

I'm wondering if they were too busy on Xenoblade 3, and Sc/Vi demonstrating the impact of their absence. Although the posts about a windmill make me laugh, given as the only really noticeable frame-rate drop in Xenoblade 2 was that flipping windmill in the middle of Torigoth. Avoid moving windmills at all costs!

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11 hours ago, Melon_Bread said:

It's still worth a play.

They back themselves into a corner Game Freak, they have this franchise which revolves around 100's of Pokemon in each game, most of which have 3 evolution states, and each of these Pokemon can learn multiple moves, then they make 2 versions of this game, the amount of work is astronomical and ends up with corners cut.

If I was running Pokemon I'd reboot the whole thing, cut it back to a smaller Pokedex, only include the fan fave Pokemon (there's some terrible Pokemon now that look like a couple of pingpong balls with a smiley face drawn on them), then make future proof new models for a reduced amount of Pokemon and build from that base, but no, that makes too much sense.


Yes! I was just thinking this myself. Reduce the Pokémon down to 50 or less but make them all bangers. Give them all detailed behaviours and make learning/training just a few Pokémon interesting - not just capture and forget. 
 

Add Pokémon Snap to the main game - in a similar way to the safari park in Pokémon Red/Blue. 
 

I would like to see more of an action RPG battle system as well - but maybe this time your not fighting other Pokémon but some bad guys instead (so  there’s no dog fighting analogy). 
 

idk just make it better GameFreak. 

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19 hours ago, Alexlotl said:

Any idea if MonolithSoft were involved in this at all? I know they lent a hand on BOTW, Sw/Sh and Arceus, and generally have a rep as being Nintendo's technical fix-up crew, particularly for open world stuff.

 

I'm wondering if they were too busy on Xenoblade 3, and Sc/Vi demonstrating the impact of their absence. Although the posts about a windmill make me laugh, given as the only really noticeable frame-rate drop in Xenoblade 2 was that flipping windmill in the middle of Torigoth. Avoid moving windmills at all costs!

I don’t think so, did they assist with Arceus? I knew they’d helped with Zelda, and Splatoon 3, but I can’t find any mention of that. 

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I don’t believe Game Freak are able to make 150 good new Pokémon anymore. 
 

Although I am definitely one of those people who thinks the original 151 are the best and will always be the best, so I am biased. 
 

Maybe instead of making new ones they could pick 150 off the best from the most recent Pokémon titles. 

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