Street Fighter VI - Here Comes a New Challenger! PS5, XSX, PC in 2023!

[JLM]

Guys I love it. I played about 12 hours of the beta and I am very very excited for the launch. The main thing is that the overall pace/feel/weight of the game is leagues ahead of SF5. Jumps are more reactable, forward dashes aren't as strong. Drive Rush is excellent. Best attempt at a Roman Cancel/FADC etc. mechanic in a Streetfighter game so far. Neutral drive rush is a way to bypass neutral and sneak in, but it has a big visual indicator and it's tied to a resource, whereas in SFV you could just keep switching between dash and jump until one of them worked. 

 

Footsies/mid range is also far better than SFV. Nice rangey pokes, big buttons with range feel like a commitment and can be jumped or whiff punished consistently if you're too reckless with them. 

 

I'm not generally a fan of universal parries, but they work exactly the same as the ones in Punch Planet, which I think is the best way to have them. Again, tied to a resource and you can be blown up for being incorrect with them. Also like that combos after a perfect parry have scaling on them so they're not as strong as they were in Third Strike. 

 

Completely in love with this version of Ken. I'll be maining Dee Jay when the game is out, but I played Ken for the whole Beta and had a blast with him. He's like a compilation of all the best bits from previous Ken appearances with some new toys thrown in as well. Heavy tatsu knocks down, but flaming heavy tatsu leaves you point blank standing like it did in SF4. He has lots of stuff like that where he's somewhere between SF4 and SF5 but also has nods to his older appearances with the crazy kicks making a return. It's early to say but I think it might be the best Ken they've ever done. 

 

I was immediately turned off by the game feel of SFV and it wasn't until Season 5 that I really started enjoying it. This feels great right from the off. 

 

On top of that it also has great netcode and a frankly ludicrous array of features/functionality/options that shows how much they've taken the SFV launch backlash on board. 

 

The only thing I don't like so far is drive impact. I hope it gets a bit retuned before launch as it feels a bit derpy and I know it's going to be the most mashed and abused option by your typical ranked monsters. I was getting the hang of countering it by the end of the beta but I still don't think it's a particularly great mechanic. 

 

Other than that my thumbs are all the way up, so happy with it.  

[Benny]

Essentially this is what has completely sold the game to me:

 

 

[joffocakes]

Drive Impact does feel pretty inexpensive for what it can do and its armour activating frame one while most normals are negative on block makes it tempting to tap through the gaps. 

 

Sticking out a non-cancellable normal only to see it absorbed is pretty sickening. I stuck out Kim's medium kick, which is cancellable, and still got crushed by it because I'd instinctively cancel into special instead of a Drive Impact of my own. It'll take time I guess but I do enjoy how hyper-aware of being cornered it makes me and in turn how much you can see opponents itching to land that Drive Impact once they get you there.

 

It also seems to be one of the only moves (other than Supers?) that will drain the opponent's Drive gauge on hit so occasionally you may want to forgo a raw damage punish combo to push the opponent into burnout instead. That's nice.

 

Perfect Drive Parry on projectiles not causing the screen freeze it has for physical attacks seems to mean you can input parry then buffer a move which will only come out if the Perfect Parry is successful. That seems pretty strong if the fail state is just a regular Parry and its recovery.

 

Who knows though. I'm sure there will be plenty of tweaks before release, maybe even before another beta test. It's wild that it feels like something approaching a complete package already and there's so much more to come when Street Fighter V's beta didn't and there wasn't.

[JLM]

Yeah I absolutely think the one bar cost is the biggest issue with it. I quite like the threat of it against a cornered/burnt out opponent too, but tapping it through offense or just speculatively throwing it out shouldn't be so readily available. There are answers to it and we will all improve at dealing with it, but I'd rather not have to have to add "guy who does drive impact all the bleedin' time" to the list of online opponent archetypes. Like one answer to it is to just not really play footsies in the mid range and wait to see if they do it at random. I could do that, and I will I have to, but I'd like that to be something I'm looking for against an opponent who really needs a big swing in their favour and has to commit to it, rather than just someone who fishes for it whenever it pops into their head. 

 

 

[wretcherd]

Great to read, you lucky boys.

What was the stick situation with the beta? Did PS4 sticks work?

[Hyper P]

My old PS3/PS4 Venom stick worked fine on PS5. I’d fancy a new stick with a touchpad for this though.

[Lying Cat]

There are stick compatibility issues with the PS5 - you can only use a PS4 stick if it’s an officially licensed Sony product, or if you’re playing a backwards compatible PS4 game.

 

I realised this when my stick worked for the PS4 version of the Guilty Gear beta in backward compatibility mode, but not the PS5.

 

Hurrah approved manufacturers I guess.

[Qazimod]

Don't need a stick when you've got modern controls.  

 

I play on controller, but I think I'll wait until next year in case anyone jumps on the SFVI hype train with peripheral announcements. The Fighting Commander OCTA looks like a neat upgrade from my Fighting Commander 4 - it has an analogue stick in an 8-way gate so you still end up finding diagonals and things...

[Goemon]

14 hours ago, JLM said:

Yeah I absolutely think the one bar cost is the biggest issue with it. I quite like the threat of it against a cornered/burnt out opponent too, but tapping it through offense or just speculatively throwing it out shouldn't be so readily available. There are answers to it and we will all improve at dealing with it, but I'd rather not have to have to add "guy who does drive impact all the bleedin' time" to the list of online opponent archetypes. Like one answer to it is to just not really play footsies in the mid range and wait to see if they do it at random. I could do that, and I will I have to, but I'd like that to be something I'm looking for against an opponent who really needs a big swing in their favour and has to commit to it, rather than just someone who fishes for it whenever it pops into their head. 

 

 

One of my biggest concerns based on what I’ve seen was the fact that the safest option becomes “doing nothing” in footies. This move coupled with getting extra damage on a whiffed moves from a punish counter makes it VERY dangerous to stick something out. 
 

Everything else you’ve said makes it sound amazing though! When I watch it, it’s really what I was expecting SFV to be. It looks like it’s built on the subtleties of what made SFIV so appealing, so I’m pretty hopeful it’s gonna great.

 

Just as a slight link, I’m starting to wonder how grapplers are going to fair in the game. The only original character not shown is Zangief and I’m starting to think it’s because they’re struggling (a bit) to balance him. Parry, Drive Impact, Drive Rush AND a ranged command throw make it sound like Zangief will be a nightmare to try and keep at bay.

 

 

[Qazimod]

I want to see the modern controls for grapplers. I think in SFxT you could put the Super Easy Input Gem on Gief and then push Up and an attack for an SPD. 🙃

[Down by Law]

Is this actually a PS4 executable which is why PS4 fightsticks work?

 

I have one of these 

 

 

It's brilliant for fighting and 2D games, being the blatant Saturn rip off it is, so imagine my dismay when i installed the PS5 version of KOF XV and it says 'this controller is not supported' some bullshit that is. Playing that game with the Dual Sense was like some kind of punishment.

 

Luckily I had the disc version of KOFXV so I could install the PS4 version, but I had to purchase the PS4 versions of the Cowabunga collection & Alex Kidd just so I could use this controller, forgoing any benefits the PS5 versions might have had. Thankfully, Shredder's Revenge - which i've put the above through 30 hours of play - was a PS4 only title.

Really annoying. Seems to be no reason for it to be like this than to force obsolescence.

[jonny_rat]

I didn't even dig out my 360 Mad Katz stick to try it because I'd heard they were a no-go on the Series consoles. There's a brook adapter that's supposed to do the trick, but not quite ready to throw £40 at it yet. 

[freezycold]

Why is the music so bad?

[JLM]

I’m disappointed with a lot of the character themes, especially when some of the SF5 ones were up there with the best work they’ve done.

 

I love this one though:

 

https://youtu.be/LxIw78JeA2Q/watch?v=LxIw78JeA2Q

[Lying Cat]

Is this the best taunt in a Street Fighter game ever?

 

 

 

[Escape]

On 11/10/2022 at 18:08, JLM said:

There are answers to it and we will all improve at dealing with it, but I'd rather not have to have to add "guy who does drive impact all the bleedin' time" to the list of online opponent archetypes. Like one answer to it is to just not really play footsies in the mid range and wait to see if they do it at random. I could do that, and I will I have to, but I'd like that to be something I'm looking for against an opponent who really needs a big swing in their favour and has to commit to it, rather than just someone who fishes for it whenever it pops into their head.

 

This is my complaint with it so far, which I think Vesper overlooked in his vid (plus many others who've focused on first-draw Impacts in neutral):

 

 

Because I think his analysis leans heavily on opponent familiarity re: optimal practice, failing to acknowledge the difference between player communities and their outcomes (plus lag), which ties into something imp said to me...

 

On 10/10/2022 at 10:14, imp said:

I'm probably on the other side of the fence from you on expanded character movesets, I think it's one of the things that's stopped me ever really gelling with 3D fighters (though I won't let that stop me trying out Tekken 8 I reckon), but to give an example I was already falling off SFV a when they introduced V-Trigger and V-Skill 2s to the game and that was basically the nail in the coffin for me because I couldn't be bothered to learn all the variance these news moves would add for a cast of 25+ characters!

 

If you're okay getting stomped by amazing players, it's arguably easier to learn Tekken from high-level play because it generally imposes best-move restrictions on characters. Rangchu's Panda is the perfect example of unpredictability overcoming the worst moveset in the game, taking high-risk gambles for middling rewards. Naturally has a shelf life and he's since dropped her.

 

Yoshimitsu has a huge moveset, for example, but again is a low-tier character because so little of it is safe. His damage is pretty good, but not enough to compensate. A really strong Yoshi belts most online players with Way of the Alien, though, including me. I understand your view!

 

So Tekken's a game of two halves, where movesets are overwhelmingly large for newcomers, who mightn't then progress to the point they condense to recognisability. As a Lee main I like his approach best, where he has one of the smallest movesets but it's mostly all usable if you sacrifice a bit of damage for style. I also use Armor King over King because it's a lot easier to remember his stuff, at the same time as offering an expansive moveset for freestyle juggles.

 

Somewhat limited movesets with tons of utility might be our halfway house, meeting in the middle as we did with Viper.

 

Hope I'm making a bit of sense here? Namely that huge movesets with limited utility get found out in high-level play, but impose the steepest of hills for those constantly on the wrong end of ‘bad’ moves. Because they're not bad if they're still working against you for conditional reasons you can't overcome with study and practice a year later, whatever the frame data or Vesper concludes.

 

I feel reliant on complete obviousness to establish immediate patterns from a stream of randoms, where it could so often be a mistake to predict an Impact isn't coming because it wouldn't be optimal, reality defying logic when it does. That falls into mindgame bluffs at a level of known skill (experience tells me that rank isn't a solid indicator), else it's too much of a low-cost lottery for my liking. Underreadable, not overpowered.

 

And with that in mind I think I'd gravitate towards characters with multihit blockstring enders (Chun's LL and Blanka's electric), accepting greater frame disadvantage for safety.* If anyone has a kara throw I can see it being incredibly powerful after blocking anti-Impact enders.

 

It'll be a crying shame if Impacts overshadow that renewed footsy range for us online intermediates, encouraging restraint against the flow of the game in its best light.

 

*

 

[Escape]

Here's Infil bypassing Impact by zoning with Juri and using her Impact-cancellable pokes:

 

There's no doubt you can get around it, I just question the wisdom of forcing players to adopt narrower styles in a sequel that flows so much better otherwise. I think Rush is fantastic, and I'd be in favour of certain characters having armoured specials that win frame advantage accordant with what they absorbed.

 

Grapplers are gonna be interesting for sure. I'm expecting slower and/or shorter Rushes.

[joffocakes]

For any baddies in the audience there's a crack out on that internet (a bad bit, r/kappa) which will allow you to play the beta offline, for anyone who had access to it via Steam.

[Escape]

 

(If I had it on Steam.)

[Qazimod]

 

Sorry if this isn't new to all of you beta people, but training mode looks really nice.  I remember launch SFV had that "Tutorial" mode which covered the basics and a bit of the V-System but wasn't nearly as in-depth as I'd have liked.

[Qazimod]

On 16/10/2022 at 10:59, JLM said:

I’m disappointed with a lot of the character themes, especially when some of the SF5 ones were up there with the best work they’ve done.

 

I love this one though:

 

https://youtu.be/LxIw78JeA2Q/watch?v=LxIw78JeA2Q

 

I heard about Kim's music playing after her Level 3, which is pretty neat. And they even thought about the mirror match  

 

 

[Lying Cat]

For those who might be interested, the beta is now available for those who didn't get the beta. Out there. Somewhere.

[Ran]

I am such a massive sucker for a flexible character creator. I may buy it for that alone (I am totally useless at 1 on 1 fighters)

[Lying Cat]

6 minutes ago, Ran said:

I am such a massive sucker for a flexible character creator. I may buy it for that alone (I am totally useless at 1 on 1 fighters)

 

There are, like, 10 people globally who aren't useless at 1-on-1 fighters.

[Lying Cat]

Right, so having played the SF6 Beta vs a CPU opponent due to playing, uh... offline, I've decided that I think it's really lovely. I've been playing a lot of SF5 recently in order to get used to playing fighting games again because like so many people out there, seeing the response to SF6 has made me decide to sit down and properly commit to playing one of these things. For the record I am shit tier at fighting games and my thoughts are those of somebody who will spam "throw" three times in a row while my opponent crouches in front of me.

 

The game feels slower than SF5, but you definitely need a bit better timing to link combo punches together. This seems like a decent trade off. Being somebody who's usually fractionally slow on his button pressing, I think I'm actually already better at SF6 than I was at 5.

 

Drive goes over my head - I need to play against real people to actually suss out whether it's good or bad for the game, but it feels like a positive thing. I particularly like and appreciate Drive Reversal, because while Street Fighter has never been about racking up endless combo numbers, it does feel good to have something to interrupt somebody wailing on you with. It's not as intuitive as Burst from Guilty Gear or anything like that, but it's a good option. Drive Rush I suck balls with and actually using it to cancel out of things costs, what... three bars? People at my level of skill will get limited use out of this I think. The actual Drive Impact is of course something that feels like it comes out of nowhere, but considering how dangerous it is to be in a corner at this point, the chances are your opponent is going to try and do one to wall splat you, so you'll be ready for the retaliation.

 

Personally I'm going to welcome it because it means people can't just hold their fingers over throw the whole time - you've now got something else to worry about.

 

For a beta the whole thing just reeks of quality. It looks and feels fantastic. It's got that special X factor that some game seem to exhibit - love and attention has been poured into this, and I reckon it's going to be absolutely fantastic.

[JLM]

Played about 30 games of Ryu mirrors with a friend this evening. Game is so much fun. It plays an infinitely better game of Ryu mirrors than SFV did, partly because of the overall pace of the game, but also because this Ryu is a great match for himself. The towards roundhouse hop kick to crush low forward, the strength of low forward itself, the power of denjin charge in the fireball war. Could have played all night if I didn't have one of those bloody jobs people have.  Still not a fan of Drive Impact but I love literally everything else. One thing I really like is how trades work. It's the first SF game where both characters still complete their animation before they go into hit stun, so you can fully see which moves traded. Will make trade combos more consistent and also just removes a bit of spaghetti from the game generally. Also the versus screen faces still make me laugh. I thought it would have worn off by now but they're great. 

 

[Goemon]

Interesting take from Vesperarcade on why perfect parry has 50% scaling on damage. I didn’t like the idea of it at first but watching this it actually makes a lot of sense. 
 

They’ve essentially created a whole meta/mind game around being minus on your normals but having the threat of perfect parry when it becomes the opponents turn.

 

I really feel they’ve looked at things carefully with this game, I think it’s going to be amazing.

 

 

[joffocakes]

Yeah that all sounds great, I had no idea that chained lights weren't a true blockstring in this. It's gonna create some dramatic shifts in momentum.

 

One other big strength of Perfect Parry is that you can always tap parry then buffer in a follow up move (normal, special, super or even just movement) after the parry input and it will only come out if your perfect parry was successful, with the fail-state just being the regular parry instead.

 

Hatson pointed out that the scaling after Perfect Parry applies for six frames after the parry, so if your opponent's recovery is long enough you can delay your response until this period passes and land an unscaled, Punish Counter combo. I'm sure there will be some situations where this will be the optimal thing to do though I guess if their recovery is very long you might as well block and punish instead. Will be fun to look out for though.

Here's D4RK_ONION's* more readable thread of Hatson's discoveries when digging into the game's Drive system:
 

 

*developer of the excellent FAT (Frame Advantage Tool, which has frame data and useful calculators for 3rd Strike, USFIV, SFV, GG Strive and soon SF6.

[Lying Cat]

On 18/10/2022 at 20:27, joffocakes said:

For any baddies in the audience there's a crack out on that internet (a bad bit, r/kappa) which will allow you to play the beta offline, for anyone who had access to it via Steam.

 

Full training mode with frame data and infinite health bars now available from the internet.

[joffocakes]

Beta servers appear to be back online. At least on PS5. Played a few matches just now. All very laggy though, probably my connection.

 

Got to see ma big buddy again at least.