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Need PS5Pro/XSXX. Underpowered consoles. Raytracing


Meat
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I think this weeks DF Weekly hit the nail on the head (it's timestamped) -

It makes complete sense that a "Pro" console would have to have market appeal for Joe Bloggs, that they'd want to walk into Tesco and KNOW why they should opt for the more expensive model. The PS4 Pro/XoX had that "4K" up-sale. 

Not only do I think that we're not going to see Pro versions this generation, I'm not sure that we will see a massive form factor change to the current designs anytime soon!  

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2 minutes ago, mikeyl said:


In animal crossing, you choose your fruit. That’s it. 


Like I said, a very superficial level. In animal crossing you don’t have to make choices about banging Raymond or not.

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24 minutes ago, mikeyl said:

I haven’t gone that far into the game because I can’t stand the whole thing but the developers are no angels. They make a big deal about choosing your gender but in the most stupid of genitalia options but yet your gender is determined by how deep your voice is and the only depictions of positive trans characters are eroticised sexbots? It ain’t just the social media guy.


One of the main NPCs, Claire Russell, is a trans woman, and she’s very positively portrayed. 

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But maybe centering relationship narratives around gender and doing heterosexual sex may be superficial too. The thing about AC is you can try and bang Raymond, you can try be their buddy, and it doesn’t matter if you are a boy/girl/dog/cat whatever.

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2 hours ago, Calashnikov said:

I think once Unreal engine 5 games start to come out, and the necessity for devs to make their games cross-gen dies out, folks’ tits and balls will really begin to be blown clean off by the new gen consoles. Trust.

 

True, that Matrix demo blew my socks off.

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29 minutes ago, mikeyl said:

But maybe cantering relationship narratives around gender and doing heterosexual sex may be superficial too. The thing about AC is you can try and bang Raymond, you can try be their buddy, and it doesn’t matter if you are a boy/girl/dog/cat whatever.


I have not played the latest update to Animal Crossing that lets you make a play for any of the villagers. I’ll download it and report back.

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As has already been said, relatively speaking, they’re *far* more powerful & comparable to decent PC hardware then the PS4 / One were at the time of release. I suspect COVID has resulted in more games than usual being cross-gen, but once the new consoles are something approaching the sole focus, we’ll see a lot more from them. Under the circumstances, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see this gen span 8-10 years without a ‘Pro’ refresh.

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1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:

Not only do I think that we're not going to see Pro versions this generation, I'm not sure that we will see a massive form factor change to the current designs anytime soon!  

Think Sony will probably do a slim version at some point - once they get the chipset reduced a little. It will save costs for them more than anything else. MS eventually will too I think although to be fair their consoles are fairly compact anyway. Half expect to see an X sans blu-ray drive to appear at some point though at a cheaper than the current series X price point - somewhere between series X and series S. Even just upgrade the Series S to have the same clock speed / GPU as the X .  It would make for a smaller unit. I'd quite like a little Series X without blu-ray drive to eventually replace my PC.

 

Guess we'll see....

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3 minutes ago, Rain Birds said:

As has already been said, relatively speaking, they’re *far* more powerful & comparable to decent PC hardware then the PS4 / One were at the time of release. I suspect COVID has resulted in more games than usual being cross-gen, but once the new consoles are something approaching the sole focus, we’ll see a lot more from them. Under the circumstances, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see this gen span 8-10 years without a ‘Pro’ refresh.

Hope so. I think generally the hardware is moving faster than the software can keep up with it. So releasing new hardware won't make the games any better. However it could cost reduce the hardware for MS & Sony perhaps. 

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24 minutes ago, Strafe said:


I have not played the latest update to Animal Crossing that lets you make a play for any of the villagers. I’ll download it and report back.


Use your imagination! You call make the villagers call you whatever you want and dress them exactly how you want and then when they threaten to leave then you can shower them with false praise and cheap presents and if that isn’t the idea of a perfect relationship then I’ll probably need to unlock my basement.

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1 minute ago, mikeyl said:


Use your imagination! You call make the villagers call you whatever you want and dress them exactly how you want and then when they threaten to leave then you can shower them with false praise and cheap presents and if that isn’t the idea of a perfect relationship then I’ll probably need to unlock my basement.


Complains about CDPR being insensitive to transgender matters then makes jokes about abusive relationships.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Strafe said:


Complains about CDPR being insensitive to transgender matters then makes jokes about abusive relationships.

 

 

 
Lol you do understand the difference between that and the toxic nature of whatever CD Project are peddling to it’s audience of millions of altright incel nerds? It’s ok, you’ve backed yourself in a corner. Tried to assume all relationships are heteronormative. Backed the transphobes because their game is so coooool. It’s ok to not be as right-on as you think you are.

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2 minutes ago, mikeyl said:

 
Lol you do understand the difference between that and the toxic nature of whatever CD Project are peddling to it’s audience of millions of altright incel nerds? It’s ok, you’ve backed yourself in a corner. Tried to assume all relationships are heteronormative. Backed the transphobes because their game is so coooool. It’s ok to not be as right-on as you think you are.


I did go back to edit that to start to say I was taking the piss but didn’t think it was necessary so closed the tab.
 

 

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Not sure if Cyberpunk is a good example to quote on compromises given it was a game originally built for the last gen.

 

I was not expecting so many of the new titles to have to give the player an option between fidelity and performance, I was assuming 4K 60 would be the norm but obviously developers still getting to grips with the hardware. I do wonder if we will see 8K games this gen, despite both consoles supporting it. Can’t see it myself.

 

However, PS5 and Series X are excellent consoles, the sheer speed of them is a massive step forward.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Robo_1 said:

I skipped the upgraded consoles last gen and didn't feel as though I missed out.

Oh man you absolutely definitely missed out (unless you have a ninja PC lying around as well, I suppose).

 

...

 

I'm sure there will be a PS5 Pro but later in the generation I expect.

 

Base PS4 was Sony hedging their bets in a climate that had just seen the PS3 struggle (relative to PS2) and "consoles are on the way out, the mainstream want iPads" was being speculated by analysts and taken seriously. This time around the discless model fills that lower-RRP niche.

 

Aside from shinier graphics, greater efficiency is a big factor that will encourage MS and Sony to offer hardware revisions during this gen. Shipping huge PC tower sized boxes with heavy heatsinks is not something that they're going to want to do for a whole 7+ year generation if they can help it.

 

...

 

Mikeyl is doing that classic thing non-gamer Facebook randos (profile photo: fishing hat, sunglasses) do where they'll driveby comment about a game based on a YouTube thumbnail they saw three years ago, bless.

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28 minutes ago, djbhammer said:

 I do wonder if we will see 8K games this gen, despite both consoles supporting it. Can’t see it myself.

Agree don't think we'll see that. Besides I think the 8K support is more for video playback than games and a bit of future proofing. I think it will be a while before 8K video will even be a thing TBH we barely get much 4K video content at the moment! 

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2 hours ago, MK-1601 said:

 

 

Mikeyl is doing that classic thing non-gamer Facebook randos (profile photo: fishing hat, sunglasses) do where they'll driveby comment about a game based on a YouTube thumbnail they saw three years ago, bless.


Bless. Cringe game

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I play Forza 5 in performance mode, with a 60fps silky smooth display.  When I watch the DF videos side by side they slow down the footage and I can see that there are more rocks, the tree has more leaves and the water has a more accurate reflection.  But when I play, I can't tell the difference.  I can feel the 30fps / 60fps difference but graphically both modes look much the same to me.  

 

We already know about movie special effects being rendered at 2K because of the processing power of the computers. The movie might be 4K or 8K but the cgi is 2K and nobody cares. When I got a HDTV I could see the difference between 1080p and 480.  Night and day and I had to buy a new TV. I've not gone 4K yet and and not sure if I will. It's like how the mobile market changed as people started going Sim only instead of annual updates because your year old phone is still fantastic.  I don't see any need for a next gen console for a long time.

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2 hours ago, MattyP said:

Agree don't think we'll see that. Besides I think the 8K support is more for video playback than games and a bit of future proofing. I think it will be a while before 8K video will even be a thing TBH we barely get much 4K video content at the moment! 

The Tourist is 8k

 

 

We don’t need 8k of course.

1800p or 1600p is really nice that’s all we need for resolution.

We need good HDR with a decent fecking calibrator. One with the nits value in fecking numbers!

Screen space reflections done right can look amazing, like Hitman.

Make lens flare fashionable again.

Forget this Ray Tracing nonsense, especially if the best you can do is fecking shadows.

60fps , I don’t care if you have to turn off all textures and use wireframe, it has to be 60.

Never ever release a 30fps game again…..and absolutely if it doesn’t have motion blur ffs Darksiders 2 I’m looking at you , you ugly piece of shit.

 

 

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11 hours ago, MK-1601 said:

Oh man you absolutely definitely missed out (unless you have a ninja PC lying around as well, I suppose).

 

Well it's certainly been nice to go back to some of the older PS4 games which were enhanced for the Pro on the PS5 and enjoy the boosted frame rates and resolution. I can't say I've felt any regrets at not picking up a Pro though. As nice as the boosted performance is, I probably spent more time with the smaller games last gen, like Salt & Sanctuary and Valfaris than God Of War or Horizon, so I don't think for me personally, I would have got enough benefit out of it to really justify the investment, but hey, options are great and if money isn't an issue and people want the best console performance possible then it's great that the option exists.

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Oh yeah, I totally get that. Also the Sony first party games tended to be massively optimised for base PS4, I'm sure there were lots of people who mainly played GoW, Spidey, TLoU, Uncharted 4 etc. who were totally happy with the performance.

 

My PS4Pro mostly gets used to play NMS, which was a chug-fest on base PS4 so I definitely reckon I got my money's worth over the years.

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On 16/02/2022 at 23:27, dumpster said:

I play Forza 5 in performance mode, with a 60fps silky smooth display.  When I watch the DF videos side by side they slow down the footage and I can see that there are more rocks, the tree has more leaves and the water has a more accurate reflection.  But when I play, I can't tell the difference.  I can feel the 30fps / 60fps difference but graphically both modes look much the same to me.  

 

We already know about movie special effects being rendered at 2K because of the processing power of the computers. The movie might be 4K or 8K but the cgi is 2K and nobody cares. When I got a HDTV I could see the difference between 1080p and 480.  Night and day and I had to buy a new TV. I've not gone 4K yet and and not sure if I will. It's like how the mobile market changed as people started going Sim only instead of annual updates because your year old phone is still fantastic.  I don't see any need for a next gen console for a long time.


 

so getting an oled 4K C9 TV was the biggest upgrade visually in my life. Dwarfed the move from crt to 1080p. Absolutely stunning. 
But so much of that is just the screen tech rather than the Rez.  Yes, 4K Encanto is beyond belief, but for games the actual screen Rez is much less important. 

I’ve been playing Zelda BoTW with my kid and honestly it’s gobsmacking how much better it looks. It’s beautiful. 

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1 hour ago, LaveDisco said:


 

so getting an oled 4K C9 TV was the biggest upgrade visually in my life. Dwarfed the move from crt to 1080p. Absolutely stunning. 


dumpster is a new tv tech holdout. He can’t tell the difference because he refuses to think there will be a difference, even though the difference is massive: and isn’t about the resolution at all, but the per pixel lighting and colour volume. He tells us this in many threads.

 

saves him money, I suppose.

 

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On 16/02/2022 at 11:52, Meat said:

With VR on the horizon too I wonder if Sony/MS will release hardware refreshes sooner, which I’d be all over.

 

The underlying basis for every single performance leap in consoles is something called Moore's Law, named after the co-founder of Intel. This has allowed faster, more powerful hardware without also having to up the price massively every time.

 

Some may disagree, but Moore's Law has been dying for years now so the only way you're going to get a mid-gen refresh with 2X or better performance anytime soon is to pay up for it and very few people want to do that and consoles are a volume business, otherwise they don't bother.

 

Also AMD will need to completely redesign their technology to enable them to make something which has competitive RT and accelerated "magic" AI upscaling in hardware.

 

The size of the upcoming Intel Arc chip which is claimed to match Nvidia is significantly bigger than the AMD equivalent so any AMD redesign to get similar performance will also likely have to balloon up in size and cost.

 

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2 hours ago, mushashi said:

The size of the upcoming Intel Arc chip which is claimed to match Nvidia is significantly bigger than the AMD equivalent so any AMD redesign to get similar performance will also likely have to balloon up in size and cost.

 

The PS5 Pro will become your actual AV unit, your TV just sits on top. 

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