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Need PS5Pro/XSXX. Underpowered consoles. Raytracing


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These new consoles have felt underpowered since day 1. From the very beginning of this gen, raytracing has clobbered frame rates in eg Cold War. Reading the compromises in Cyberpunk is painful. With VR on the horizon too I wonder if Sony/MS will release hardware refreshes sooner, which I’d be all over.

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I'm sure this will happen, and Xmas 2023 sounds like a good guess for a release date. I would hope that such a machine would be able to run all current software at 60fps with decent raytracing, and have some form of DLSS as this seems like the next big thing.

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With the current global chip shortages I’d expect nothing new until that’s no longer an issue. 
 It’s not as if they have problems shifting the stock at the moment and looks likely to be the way for the rest of the year at least. 
 Let them at least drop the cross gen stuff and see what we can do when developing solely for the new machines first. 

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I think even a refresh or pro console won’t give people 4K @ 60fps with ray tracing, that sounds like another generational leap to me. 
 

I think the Xbox Series X and PS5 are ace consoles, if it’s much better performance you want I’d say PC is the way to go. 

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Just now, FishyFish said:

I don’t currently have a 4K panel so I’d be happy for games with 60fps and RT output at 1080p.

Yeah, Returnal looks incredible and runs at a rock solid 60fps, and it’s upscaled 4K. 

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Even PCs with graphics cards that cost over a grand aren't doing 4k 60fps with ray tracing, not without some form of DLSS upscaling at least.

 

Unless it's Doom Eternal - that seems to be constructed out of magic code dust though.

 

The new consoles are ridiculously powerful for the RRP... If you can actually get one.

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I just want to play games in 60 fps. Really don't give a rats ass about fidelity, resolution, etc. Just give me a stable framerate of 60. If anything, this gen being an actual old-gen upgrade is enlightening.

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I skipped the upgraded consoles last gen and didn't feel as though I missed out. I guess the benefit of an upgraded console will be a 4k, 60fps plus raytracing option which is obviously desirable but wouldn't be enough for me to drop another 500 notes.

 

I doubt the chip shortage will make it any easier for the price of the current consoles to fall by significant amounts and it may even make the effort of creating a bumped up version particularly onerous if they're already fighting for manufacturing capacity for their base machines.

 

Yeah I dunno, unless it significantly impacts the VR experience (which it didn't last gen), I doubt I'll be pursuaded.

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11 minutes ago, SuperCapes said:

Having played Ratchet and Clank I couldn't disagree more with the underpowered statement. 

 

Ratchet and Clank looks nice but the frame rate is grim.

 

I don't understand how anybody can play a platformer at 30.

 

7 minutes ago, Cyhwuhx said:

I just want to play games in 60 fps. Really don't give a rats ass about fidelity, resolution, etc. Just give me a stable framerate of 60. If anything, this gen being an actual old-gen upgrade is enlightening.

 

Basically this - 60fps needs to be the norm now, but these new consoles will need to make some serious compromises to hit that.

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1 minute ago, Isaac said:

 

 

Basically this - 60fps needs to be the norm now, but these new consoles will need to make some serious compromises to hit that.

 What? I can't think of a single game I've played that's had to do that to hit 60.

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The new consoles have not even been explored fully yet in terms of using the available power! :)

 

Think its diminishing returns in terms of wanting ever more compute power. Sure 4K @ 60fps is nice to have but what real impact is that going to have on the games themselves? AAA games are already taking 4-5 years to develop. I don't think having shinier graphics will make the games any better really hope they start to focus on using the new CPUs and SSDs to provide more interesting games rather than more shiny. 

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Just now, deerokus said:

 What? I can't think of a single game I've played that's had to do that to hit 60.

 

Ratchet and Clank runs at 25-50% of the resolution of native (1080-1440p) in the 'performance RT' mode to hit 60.

 

It is a much fuzzier image as a result.

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3 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

Ratchet and Clank looks nice but the frame rate is grim.

 

I don't understand how anybody can play a platformer at 30.

 

 

Basically this - 60fps needs to be the norm now, but these new consoles will need to make some serious compromises to hit that.

 

Performance RT mode in R&C looked superb and ran at 60 (shame the game was average), Spiderman and Miles Morales as well (although that's probably more to do with Insomniac being wizards or something)

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4 minutes ago, mikeyl said:

A “pro” version would require more of a leap than just a little bit more shiny puddles. Bollocks to these mid gen refreshes which tuck up the early adopters.

Agree. Mid-gen upgrades are a way of just milking some money out of people. Console gaming isn't like a mobile phone market - hopefully it never will be. 

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We’ve had like three or four games made for next gen-only. The crossover point we hit next year when all games are built for the new machines from the ground up will seem like more of a leap forward than any pro version would.

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6 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

Ratchet and Clank runs at 25-50% of the resolution of native (1080-1440p) in the 'performance RT' mode to hit 60.

 

It is a much fuzzier image as a result.

Ok, if you're insisting on ray tracing, but that's a nice extra at this point rather than something which massively compromises a game to not have. The hardware requirements to do what you want are going to be next gen at the earliest.

 

There are very few games on consoles where ray tracing is worth the performance hit but that's not because they are 'underpowered', it's that they're not £3000 systems.

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The consoles have a significant amount of power. Gamers have just stuck onto buzzwords like 4k 60 and raytracing and assume it is all possible with some console magic.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

Ratchet and Clank runs at 25-50% of the resolution of native (1080-1440p) in the 'performance RT' mode to hit 60.

 

It is a much fuzzier image as a result.

 

Have you tried the 40fps with RT mode? 

 

Quite incredible.

 

Regardless the non RT 4K 60 mode is unbelievable. 

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4 minutes ago, deerokus said:

Ok, if you're insisting on ray tracing, but that's a nice extra at this point rather than something which massively compromises a game to not have. The hardware requirements to do what you want are going to be next gen at the earliest.

 

There are very few games on consoles where ray tracing is worth the performance hit but that's not because they are 'underpowered', it's that they're not £3000 systems.

Well and the requisite tech isn't there with the people who make the console APUs. AMD are not up to par with ray tracing on PC (and only recent enabled it in 2020) either now matter what made up cost number you throw out there. Nvidia has been at it at consumer level since 2018 and even now can only achieve playable RT with dedicated hardware and significant strides ahead in AI machine learning/DLSS. Which again AMD is behind on. 

 

A PC half that price in your quote that destroy current AMD RT capabilities even at the highest PC end.  Will need to wait at least until RDNA3. 

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