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Sony acquires Bungie for $3.6bn


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12 minutes ago, Uzi said:

He can also fix all game delays due to PROJECT MANAGEMENT SKILZ


Most delays.  The software industry is full of a lot of people that aren’t great. But I suppose most industries are like that. 
 

And yes. I am amazing. Cheers! 

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1 minute ago, Uzi said:

Destiny 2 needs an Iron King thingy moment (is what what is was called) that basically is a good point for people to jump back in at the tail end of years of content, fixes and tweaks. I played maybe 80-100 hours of the base game and first season pass and kinda fell off the wagon then and never found a good inviting point to get back in.


i’d hop back in and try it again if they did that. I think I just tried it out waaaay too late after launch.  Great gunplay though. 

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2 minutes ago, rafaqat said:


Most delays.  The software industry is full of a lot of people that aren’t great. But I suppose most industries are like that. 
 

And yes. I am amazing. Cheers! 

You wouldn't fix shit! You're on here all the time knee deep in console warz you bozo!

 

Kidding lol ( I have 2x many posts so this is a deliberate backfire)

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7 minutes ago, Uzi said:

You wouldn't fix shit! You're on here all the time knee deep in console warz you bozo!

 

Kidding lol ( I have 2x many posts so this is a deliberate backfire)


I’ve actually delegated my Rllmuk posting to a PMO.   BAN! 

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46 minutes ago, metallicfrodo said:

I think there is certainly an acceptance for the younger generation that anything they need to know they can just find out on youtube, they almost don't expect it to be explained in game. And to be honest with the way these games change all the time it almost becomes the defacto way of explanation now, as opposed to tutorials in the game.

 

Is this the point where we realise games just aren't aimed (primarily) at us old fogeys any more? I know that if a game's so complicated that I need to look up a video to work out the basics of how to play it (as opposed to the solution to a particular tricky puzzle or whatever) then it's definitely not for me. I don't mind a learning curve but I expect it to be in the game itself!

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Remember, if you query what £70 billion gets you its because of the value of the asset and “you know nothing about how a business actually works” but if it’s this lot doing the buying it’s lol they should’ve just put an ad out on reed.com 

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I suspect it would be pretty risky to try to fillet out the people with most experience of GaaS stuff and poach them. You'd have to assume that you'd find the right people, that they'd want to go, that they would retain that level performance in a new team in a new organisation, and that they could replicate the team and organisational structures that made Bungie successful. Worst case scenario is that your new venture would fail, and you'd knacker Bungie. That seems like quite a risk for the sake of saving a few quid; acquiring a company must be quite risky anyway, you might get a Rare scenario where the key people leave as soon as they can. A lot of the time, it's the organisation and the team that makes people successful, which is obviously hard to replicate. Why take the risk when you've got the money to buy the whole organisation?

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1 hour ago, metallicfrodo said:

 

I do wonder if new players end up getting into the games through watching streamers play them. In this sense they probably already know how to play the game as they will have watched someone else do it. I know when my son and his mate got into Destiny 2 they just watched a load of videos on youtube to work out how to play it and the best ways to level up etc. I'm always amazed when I playing a game and my son (13) will walk in and go you do know that if you do x you will get y quicker. I know he hasn't played it at all, it'll just be something one of the youtubers he is watching will have player.

 

I think there is certainly an acceptance for the younger generation that anything they need to know they can just find out on youtube, they almost don't expect it to be explained in game. And to be honest with the way these games change all the time it almost becomes the defacto way of explanation now, as opposed to tutorials in the game.

 

I remember when go into Warframe as an example the only way to understand anything about that game was to watch YouTube videos on it.

Yeah I think this is it in a nutshell - the streaming gen just understand, they get these systems. Old school gamers used to tutorials or even, really old school, instruction manuals, are just left behind. 


And I suppose that is why this partnership makes sense, Sony are as old school as it gets. 

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48 minutes ago, Darren said:

 

Is this the point where we realise games just aren't aimed (primarily) at us old fogeys any more? I know that if a game's so complicated that I need to look up a video to work out the basics of how to play it (as opposed to the solution to a particular tricky puzzle or whatever) then it's definitely not for me. I don't mind a learning curve but I expect it to be in the game itself!

 

Destiny isn't really complicated, you shoot the mans, you gets the loots. I totally get being intimidated by such a long running game that but I think it would be nigh on impossible to guide a player through every nuance of a game that has been evolving for 4, 5, 6 or more years. Every weapon that has been introduced, where to obtain it, how best to level your character, how to build craft, the story and lore, there's just so much and it the main reason people love these games, but they are inherently driven by communities and the expectation is you need to put in a bit of effort. It's half the fun  when I come back from a regular Destiny hiatus and check out a few podcasts, videos and reddit posts and all the stuff I missed all starts to make sense.

 

I do understand though that the Destiny new player experience needs work, it's a common complaint. But I don't really see anything better with other GaaS games I've dipped in to. GTA, ESO, Division, Warframe, they all just take the stabilisers off early and expect you to seek out the information you need.

 

Oh and Destiny is very much a Dad's game, I turn 50 next year and was part of a clan last year where the average age was 52. There is nothing more old fogey than Destiny*. :blah:

 

 

* - except maybe Flight Sim

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39 minutes ago, Darren said:

 

Is this the point where we realise games just aren't aimed (primarily) at us old fogeys any more? I know that if a game's so complicated that I need to look up a video to work out the basics of how to play it (as opposed to the solution to a particular tricky puzzle or whatever) then it's definitely not for me. I don't mind a learning curve but I expect it to be in the game itself!

 

I'm not sure it's even that. I think it is aimed at all kinds of players, however I think there is definitely a mindset shift that has taken place. It's not necessarily a generational thing either though I don't think. Working in IT I just expect that if I don't know something within about 30 seconds I can find it with a quick google, I've been so used to doing that for work that everything in life for me is like that. Yet there are still people I know who spend their entire life staring at their phone screen that don't seem to realise that they can get the answer to any question they want by using search and will ask me questions instead. My son is the same, he spends hours and hours watching youtube videos absorbing loads of random pieces of information, and yet if he has to find a specific answer to something he seems incapable of making the logical leap to use a search engine to look it up.

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The problem with Destiny isn't that it's complicated, it's that it's almost hostile to new players. Like, until recently, new players got dumped into the Dares of Eternity activity with no instructions, no indication of what they needed to do, and with gear at too low a level to realistically kill even the low-level adds. I think there's an inherent conflict between servicing existing players and giving them stuff to do and onboarding new players, in that they only have so much resource to spend on both and the existing players almost invariably win.

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I think developers for a lot of games have basically outsourced their new player efforts to the community, Minecraft was probably the first that showed having no in game tutorialisation and just dumping the player in a hostile world was no barrier for success.

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1 hour ago, moosegrinder said:

Warframe's barrier to entry was fucking colossal. You needed climbing gear to scale that shit. Absolutely worth it, mind.

 

Needed? What is this past tense you speak of? :P I only just got into a tumble with a Kuva Lich and what the bloody hell...?!

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Destiny's problem is that Bungie have spent the last four years tooling the game specifically around the needs of people who play, or want to play, it every day. They tried making it more approachable in base D2 with the Milestone system and stuff. I remember someone from Bungie telling me they wanted to make a game 'you don't have to go to Reddit to understand how to play,' which seemed fair enough at the time and sounds absolutely ridiculous now. The community hated the apparent casualisation of the game and Bungie have spent the years since running hard in the other direction. While they clearly gave some thought to the new player experience with New Light it was very obviously a bit of an afterthought.

 

It's also terrifically hard to go back to, which IMO is maybe an even bigger problem. I'm constantly worried that I'm doing the 'wrong' thing. Someone on here described returning to Destiny as like 'shopping in a foreign supermarket' and it's just a perfect description that I think about every time I try and play it. 

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7 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

I think developers for a lot of games have basically outsourced their new player efforts to the community, Minecraft was probably the first that showed having no in game tutorialisation and just dumping the player in a hostile world was no barrier for success.

 

This is true, but I think the issue with Destiny is that the structure is chaotic. The game being complicated is one thing, but it's difficult to even explain to people just what they need to buy if they want to get into it. Activities are divided up between base game stuff, stuff that's only accessible if you have a specific expansion, and stuff that's only accessible if you have a particular season pass. You can't buy older season passes*, so if you want to play the mission that was introduced in season 14 and get access to a particular exotic weapon, then tough shit. If you want to do another thing, then you have to buy an expansion that came out three years ago.

 

With Minecraft, you can just jump in and experiment and do whatever you want, but there are so many different barriers to entry in Destiny, randomly distributed across the whole thing. Even with other F2P games, the season pass is mostly for cosmetics and gear, rather than for specific activities.

 

*unless you buy the deluxe big box version of the expansion for £100+.

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I’m not sure if D2 is complicated or just kind of bloated with so many currencies, vendors, reputations, bounties, challenges… and that’s after it “vaulted” a bunch of content. It must be a bit bewildering for anyone who hasn’t seen these things slowly introduced to the game.

 

At least the Director highlights challenges and things to point you towards worthwhile activities… but you’ll probably still have questions about so many other things.

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17 hours ago, Shimmyhill said:

This is a bit like Everton signing Dele Ali, once great but now a faded star - both seem to have spent far too much on the deal!

 

Everton have paid exactly £0 pounds, then £10mil if he plays every game, only going up to the £40mil highlighted by the press if Everton get into Europe and win something.

 

So it's not like it at all really.

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1 hour ago, Qazimod said:

I’m not sure if D2 is complicated or just kind of bloated with so many currencies, vendors, reputations, bounties, challenges… and that’s after it “vaulted” a bunch of content. It must be a bit bewildering for anyone who hasn’t seen these things slowly introduced to the game.

 

At least the Director highlights challenges and things to point you towards worthwhile activities… but you’ll probably still have questions about so many other things.


I played it for a couple of months last year and the main issue was I couldn’t ever really understand or care about the marginal increases in points of the system. I actually think it explained its lore and set up quite well in the opening games. And I loved those environments they crafted.

 

@Gorf King helped me out with a lot of it but the main barrier to me was it was really fun to play and dick around in, but I could see to get to a ‘competitive’ level against other players required an understanding of the minutiae of its systems I just couldn’t be arsed with.

 

A proper one player game set in its world would have been perfect for me.

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To give new/returning players something to aim for, Destiny should have a mode where, like the start of Metroid or the challenges in Returnal, they give you a locked max curated loadout of the best of everything so you can just smash though a mission feeling like the king they think you could to be but without the 50 hour grind. There’s so much cool stuff in the game which a lot haven’t seen. Also conversely, a pvp mode where you can’t use your fusion rifles.

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2 hours ago, Qazimod said:

I’m not sure if D2 is complicated or just kind of bloated with so many currencies, vendors, reputations, bounties, challenges…

 

I've tried going back every couple of years, and the sheer number of currencies/currency trading/quest givers giving meaningless quests, side activities - I have no idea if what I'm doing is efficient or fun.

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The kinder way of looking at it is that it doesn't really matter what you do, and by the time it *does* matter you'll have put enough time into it to know what you should be doing. You can totally just hop in and fuck around in the Strike playlist, or Crucible or patrols or whatever. But in the absence of the game telling you to just go fuck around, you're left with this niggling worry that you're doing it wrong, or suboptimally, or whatever. I do think most of this stuff is a relatively easy fix in the scheme of things, but they're stuck on the treadmill making new stuff all the time, plus of course all their staff know the game inside out so it's hard for them to see the game from a new player's POV.

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3 minutes ago, Nate Dogg III said:

The kinder way of looking at it is that it doesn't really matter what you do, and by the time it *does* matter you'll have put enough time into it to know what you should be doing. You can totally just hop in and fuck around in the Strike playlist, or Crucible or patrols or whatever.

 

Partly true. It's very easy, as a returning player, to end up on a treadmill of activities that may or may not unlock crucial bits of the game or other interesting content, but not be able to distinguish them.

 

For example - there was that machine doing something with engrams next to the guy who had some specific PvPvE event going on. If you were there when it was introduced, it was only a small new interesting system. If you turned up (as I did) six months later, it was a system that didn't make a hell of a lot of sense wrapped in around a load of other systems that didn't make a lot of sense.

 

Which is fine if you're trying to maintain your existing base. Less good otherwise.

 

See also: why no-one is going to start playing WoW from scratch anytime soon.

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Just on the subject of Sony poaching key talent and starting their own studio, how long would that approach take to deliver a game capable of going toe to toe with Destiny and Warframe?

 

If you look at the Initiative, which Microsoft announced in 2018 and has seemingly been operating with a huge budget since day one, they recently announced that they had entered into an agreement with Crystal Dynamics to help make Perfect Dark as they needed a lot more people to get the game finished. Even after bringing them on board the game is still expected to ship in late 2023/early 2024 so a full five years after Microsoft announced that the studio had been opened. Thats for a game that will most likely end up being a singleplayer experience without a live service attached. How long would it take to build a studio capable of releasing and then supporting a live-service title expected to compete at the top end of the market? 

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The industry being bought up in this way is terrible in the long term for the end user. I do get the logic of the purchase in this case, stops MS getting them, makes the case that big companies like this should stay multiplatform when they inevitably sue MS over activision (won't work though), and fills two gap in Sony's portfollio (FPSes and Skinner Boxes/Psychological Exploitation games).

 

But yeah, depressing.

 

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