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Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness - May 2022


Doctor Shark
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On the black lady

 

Spoiler

Which is an appalling way of putting it, but given the desire to avoid a spoiler…

 

surely the point of the illuminati is that they were purely caricatures: only X really got to do anything, and it didn’t end well for him either. I remember Krasinkisi rising up into the air to be torn into a thousand shreds, but he didn’t say anything particularly meaningful or memorable. And god knows who was to the right of black bolt.

 

sometimes I think we look for bad stuff that simply isn’t there: she’s just another character, being treated exactly the same way as the other four of them.

 

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@footleWhat I found disappointing with it is that she is the only one to talk in such a clearly tropey way and it was hard to ignore that. And I certainly wasn't looking for it - not that long ago it probably wouldn't have even registered for me, but I've become more aware of this stuff in recent years and I do think it's a bit of a problem. 

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Some of you people are projecting. On the flip side there are grifters saying this movie is woke, and feminist garbage and you get people here on the left saying the opposite saying its not going woke enough. You can't win.

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, footle said:

On the black lady

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Which is an appalling way of putting it, but given the desire to avoid a spoiler…

 

surely the point of the illuminati is that they were purely caricatures: only X really got to do anything, and it didn’t end well for him either. I remember Krasinkisi rising up into the air to be torn into a thousand shreds, but he didn’t say anything particularly meaningful or memorable. And god knows who was to the right of black bolt.

 

sometimes I think we look for bad stuff that simply isn’t there: she’s just another character, being treated exactly the same way as the other four of them.

 

I agree, I don't think I heard anyone talking about Maria acting too black except here.

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1 minute ago, Fierce Poodle said:

I think we’re at the point now that we can safely dismiss the opinion of anyone who uses the word “woke” in that context.

 

Its a stupid blanket term I know, but it still stands that there's people on the right calling it that  and yet here there are people are saying the opposite and not being progressive enough.

 

I mean people this is a movie and not a TV series, there are so many things you can add and its a mess already.

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10 minutes ago, odb said:

Some of you people are projecting. On the flip side there are grifters saying this movie is woke, and feminist garbage and you get people here on the left saying the opposite saying its not going woke enough. You can't win.

 

What you're saying is nonsense because it's two different things in the movie people are complaining about. 

 

Spoiler

The mere presence of a pride badge and a character with two mothers is enough to send the right into a frothing mess. All people are saying on here is that the film's disappointing in its depiction of women. If anything it's worse because even though they're making these big strides towards progressive values up front, in the background they let their female characters down so badly just by doing the same thing Hollywood always does. 

 

Men = Big fighters and clever thinkers. 

Women = Sad Mums who just want to be mums. 

The two angles aren't remotely mutually exclusive. 

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1 minute ago, BitterToad said:

What you're saying is nonsense because it's two different things in the movie people are complaining about. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The mere presence of a pride badge and a character with two mothers is enough to send the right into a frothing mess. All people are saying on here is that the film's disappointing in its depiction of women. If anything it's worse because even though they're making these big strides towards progressive values up front, in the background they let their female characters down so badly just by doing the same thing Hollywood always does. 

 

Men = Big fighters and clever thinkers. 

Women = Sad Mums who just want to be mums. 

The two angles aren't remotely mutually exclusive. 

Yes but its politics at the end of the day.

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6 minutes ago, odb said:

 

Its a stupid blanket term I know, but it still stands that there's people on the right calling it that  and yet here there are people are saying the opposite and not being progressive enough.

 

I mean people this is a movie and not a TV series, there are so many things you can add and its a mess already.

 

What an odd statement, doesn't need to be a series to not fall back on lazy "ah, hell no!" tropes - you could probably tweak those lines/ performance in about 5mins if you had a mind too.

 

Earth 616 Captain Marvel is quite sarcastic so they where probably attempting to do a take on that and it didn't notice anything.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, BitterToad said:

What you're saying is nonsense because it's two different things in the movie people are complaining about. 

 

  Hide contents

The mere presence of a pride badge and a character with two mothers is enough to send the right into a frothing mess. All people are saying on here is that the film's disappointing in its depiction of women. If anything it's worse because even though they're making these big strides towards progressive values up front, in the background they let their female characters down so badly just by doing the same thing Hollywood always does. 

 

Men = Big fighters and clever thinkers. 

Women = Sad Mums who just want to be mums. 

The two angles aren't remotely mutually exclusive. 


you’ve just denied the whole of the

Spoiler

mum’s character arc closure,

and everything about

Spoiler

Christine

.

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5 minutes ago, odb said:

Yes but its politics at the end of the day.

 

Well, I for one am sick of the badge merchants agenda getting in my comic book movies.

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24 minutes ago, footle said:


you’ve just denied the whole of the

  Hide contents

mum’s character arc closure,

and everything about

  Hide contents

Christine

.

What was Christine’s arc in the film? 

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16 minutes ago, Delargey said:

 

Well, I for one am sick of the badge merchants agenda getting in my comic book movies.

 

No I'm tired of people trying to inject "politics" when there isn't any.

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8 minutes ago, BitterToad said:

What was Christine’s arc in the film? 


built a clever box, didn’t 

Spoiler

Get back with the narcissist. So in that way, she’s a big development on Pepper Potts.

 

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I think it's a mix of how this movie some what undones the narrative arc of Wandavision- how Wanda deal with her grief and a bit wider chat of how women are often portrayed in Hollywood. If you didn't see any of that stuff that's fair enough.

 

It's like you can love the expanse for being an excellent space opera and use it for a discussion point for humanity in general - one doesn't distract from the other.

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In fairness, while her character development is paper-thin, Christine also

 

Spoiler

uses her multiverse expertise to save our Strange's life twice: once using the torch thing from the first Dr Strange film to send the ghosts swarming over his physical form back to hell, and then again when she tells him how to beat the ones swarming around Deadite Strange to win the day ("You're a sorcerer, they're spirits - use them"). And 616 Christine shows no evidence of wishing she'd married Strange instead, like lazily male-written character might do; she basically just tells him to get on with his life.

 

In contrast there's not a single male character I can think of that does anything smart, strong, or particularly useful apart from Strange himself, and even he needs the help of two women to achieve his goal. Three other Stranges die after being selfish dickheads, two of the Illumaniti men are smug, over-confident and last three minutes before being dispatched with Venture Brothers-style jokes and whatever happens to the third seems to have been cut out of the film after he falls down a not particularly deep hole. Xavier seems to have been in the film simply to have Patrick Stewart in the MCU before he's too old to act, and other than showing a bit of trust in Strange he doesn't really do anything especially helpful. They also treat the female Illuminati in a broadly similar way - they're both arrogant and overconfident, and they get dispatched in similarly ignominious ways to their male teammates.

 

Pizza Papa is a badman, obviously.

 

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Christine’s a safe pair of hands for that universe now that, uh, all that happened. She was also probably the second-best-developed character in the thing after that cameo.

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Saw this today, really enjoyed it - especially the darker tone. My favourite bit?

Spoiler

X-Men Animated Series theme chiming along as Professor X wheels himself out.

 

My prediction (hope) before the film was that...

Spoiler

It would force the door for the X-Men wide open, seems to be more of subtle nods and cameos. Going down a route I'm not familiar with instead - the post credits Clea etc

 

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Even though she was named as someone else I watched that whole sequence thinking the character everybody was talking about a few posts back was that universe's Black Panther. The flight powers were just Iron Man meets vibranium I assumed.

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Posted (edited)

Saw this today, thought it was really good, Strange is one of my favourite characters.  Stewart & co was throwaway fun, but good to see Anson kept in the MCU, and agree that the guy playing Reed was good as well.

 

Spoiler

Bruce at the end was 😂

 

Edited by Ivanho
Spoiler edit
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22 hours ago, Festoon said:

 

Too emotional for superpowers.

But you could the same about 

Spoiler

Evil Strange

It's not an arc that was reserved solely for the women of the film.

 

Edit: What PK said.

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On 08/05/2022 at 01:57, Gabe said:

Well that was a 2.5 hour bundle of meh. I've now been disappointed with all the Phase 4 stuff so far (both TV and films) despite continually thinking I'm going to like the next thing - and I was looking forward to this more than Spider-Man, as I really like Cumberbatch in the role.


Some general thoughts:

 

  Hide contents

Firstly, great big LOL (in a face palm way) at the Fisher Price Avengers Illuminati stuff. I could pick a lot of faults with that whole section but I won't, other than to say Patrick Stewart looked like he'd somehow stumbled onto set and nobody had the heart to call security. And as a linking device for the Fantastic 4 & X-Men it was laughably bad.

 

It was also incredibly unimaginative that of all the multiverses they could've gone to, they went to New York. With some flowers. How exciting. And that is my general feeling about not just this, but all of the post-Endgame stuff; it's veered between being proper rubbish to dull at best. It's not that I'm tired of the formula - I re-watched Captain America 2 & 3 again recently and still enjoyed them - but something is missing. A general lack of charisma? I don't know.

 

I had no read anything about this nor seen any trailers, so my only knowledge that Wanda was in it was from the scene in Spider-Man and I didn't know she was the antagonist, so that was a surprise at least, but everything else just felt so tired.

 

I honestly don't know what to really make of this. Even though it only finished a couple of hours ago I'm genuinely struggling to think of anything it does to either further any of the characters, increase our wider knowledge of anything or set in motion something that would be interesting in whatever team-up film comes down the line. It just left me feeling empty.

 

I do feel I've fallen out of step with the general consensus regarding Marvel stuff though (not just on here, but out "there" too), because the only TV show I quite liked was Falcon & The Winter Soldier and the only film was The Eternals. WandaVision, Loki, Black Widow, Spider-Man etc have all massively missed the mark for me to the point where I do wonder why I still get hyped for them. I guess the multiverse is the common theme running throughout Phase 4, but that just isn't grabbing my interest like the build-up to Thanos did (and I realise Marvel has said they won't be mirroring that approach again.)

 

So, once again I shall now read the comments which will most likely be full of praise and enjoyment and I'll wonder why I'm just not getting it any more.


I don’t think you’re alone with this. It was always going to be interesting to see how they managed the MCU alongside the TV series. Unfortunately it seems like the money men at Disney have won out and now, not only are we overloaded with “content”, but it feels like a chore having to watch the TV series in order to have the slightest clue about a film that might be coming out in a couple of years time.

 

I’m sure for some people this is their idea of heaven, and I would be completely fine with it, however the TV shows have been mediocre at best. Now the films are becoming increasingly hit and miss, we’re nearly half way through Phase 4 with new characters constantly being chucked at us and no clear idea of where things are going, I’m starting to think the wheels are coming off the machine.

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I've been reading the massive thread over on Era and the reaction has been quite mixed too, with a lot of criticism of thin character motivations/development, many who love it just because it's a Raimi film and those who love the potential set ups that it might bring. 

 

I think my general Marvel fatigue has come from the fact that so many teasers, loose ends and plot threads just go nowhere or take years to come to fruition, or require you to watch 3 TV shows, a couple of films and still have some comic knowledge to really 'get it'. 

 

That, plus I genuinely have no idea who the 'main' team-up crew is meant to even be now, because there are too many characters and none of them have an ounce of the charisma, confidence (/arrogance) or just screen presence as RDJ or Chris Evans. I can't think of anyone out of the many we've seen and been introduced to are big enough to hang an ensemble cast around. Anybody know? 

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  • Doctor Shark changed the title to Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness - May 2022

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