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NFTs and the Blockchain - What the hell is all this?


squirtle
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This Worms thing is so weird. Just read this quote on the Eurogamer article about it:-

This means, the company says, registering your unique ownership of each Worms collectible is "environmentally friendly". So, should 100,000 people buy one, the energy used to register these unique images would be "the average annual kettle usage of just 11 households".
 I mean, what the fuck? What a weird way to try and convince people it’s actually a great idea.

Also in what world are 100,000 people going to buy the registration for a spinning turd sprinkled in glitter? 

 I feel like I’m in a episode of Nathan Barley or it’s a sketch from Brass Eye

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I really want one of these publishers to forge on with NFT, invest heavily in it, for gamers to utterly ignore it and then said developers lament the money they've poured into it. So it isn't just an air of "social media wot made us not do it" about it.

 

Might make fewer developers consider it.

 

Phil, please don't do this shit.

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45 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

11 years of kettles is actually quite a lot of energy for 100,000 purchase receipts, it seems to me.

 

Oh indeed.

 

My kettle says it's 2500-3000 W. But even if we were to take a more efficient kettle at 2000 W for the average, and assume that a household will use a kettle for even just 5 minutes a day, then the annual power usage of a single household per year comes in at around 60 kWh. 11 households therefore come to 660 kWh.

 

By comparison, my computer has a 650 W power supply, so for a comparable electricity usage, it would need to take my computer more than 41 days to perform the same process - writing 100,000 records to a database - without the blockchain, running at full capacity and power usage. Even if their estimates were to account for the infrastructure required to process the whole thing from end to end, it's a ludicrous increase in power usage for no benefit whatsoever to anybody except the grifters looking to extract money out of suckers.

 

Decentralised systems are always less efficient than centralised ones for many reasons, but there's usually some benefit to having it. I've yet to see it for NFTs.

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The Team17 NFT idiocy is a perfect example of how much of games publishing is old school 'industry veterans' doing favours for each other and then leaving their subordinates to shovel the steaming piles of elephant cack that result.

 

See also why so many games had terrible DRM systems.

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7 hours ago, Fry Crayola said:

 

Oh indeed.

 

My kettle says it's 2500-3000 W. But even if we were to take a more efficient kettle at 2000 W for the average, and assume that a household will use a kettle for even just 5 minutes a day, then the annual power usage of a single household per year comes in at around 60 kWh. 11 households therefore come to 660 kWh.

 

By comparison, my computer has a 650 W power supply, so for a comparable electricity usage, it would need to take my computer more than 41 days to perform the same process - writing 100,000 records to a database - without the blockchain, running at full capacity and power usage. Even if their estimates were to account for the infrastructure required to process the whole thing from end to end, it's a ludicrous increase in power usage for no benefit whatsoever to anybody except the grifters looking to extract money out of suckers.

 

Decentralised systems are always less efficient than centralised ones for many reasons, but there's usually some benefit to having it. I've yet to see it for NFTs.


now come on, at U.K. rates that’s only £96 of real money to facilitate those 100,000 database entries. Or the best part of 10p per transaction.

as an alternative, it’ll cost you 4 cents to make 100000 GET requests to S3, and 37p to do the necessary 100,000 writes… maybe 20p for storage if you’re amazingly inefficient and also want to store the original images…

 

so even against a really inefficient implementation, it’s still really expensive.

 

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I was thinking about all this Crypto/NFT stuff as I was using 2 apps that I have that I have on my phone & use regularly.  

 

The first is Topps Disney Collect that I starting playing when it was recommended by Defunctland back when the Pandemic started.  I challenged myself to get as far as possible using only the free coins that it regularly hands out rather than spending money on it & I've built up quite a collection of Digital Disney Trading Cards at this point, some very rare that I got through lucky drops.  If this app had come out now, would it have been linked to NFT's & the blockchain & Pay only?

 

The second is Pinterest.  I've used this for some time too & built up a collection of JPEG's, Videos, Etc. about subjects that interest me.  Other than the Crypto/Money aspect, could this be considered like an NFT wallet, only without the possibility of having all my ETH stolen when I click on an image?

 

Of course, the fact that I don't pay money for either of these apps or their contents means that I'm a terrible consumer & will be executed by the Crypto Death Squads once they finish gearing up, but at least I'll have some nice pictures to look at before that happens.

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On 31/01/2022 at 17:09, TehStu said:

I really want one of these publishers to forge on with NFT, invest heavily in it, for gamers to utterly ignore it and then said developers lament the money they've poured into it. So it isn't just an air of "social media wot made us not do it" about it.

 

Might make fewer developers consider it.

 

Phil, please don't do this shit.

I mean, this pretty much happened with free to play. Loads of publishers forged on with it, despite gamers loudly proclaiming it was the devil and everything was equally exploitative etc. Trad gamers still sneer at free to play mobile games and think people who spend money on those kinds of IAPs are idiots. 
 

And - if it happens that blockchain gaming (ugh the term is just so lame) - ok, let me compose myself here. If it happens that some games manage to find success with NFT based ownership of items in games, then it won’t really affect console/pc gamers in any way.
 

They already aren’t playing the games that console/pc game devs aren’t making. 
 

FWIW I dont think blockchain gaming is the next F2P gaming. But I do see some potential in some areas where ownership of items is beneficial to players. Not sure if we’ll see that happen. 

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On 01/02/2022 at 11:07, Jarik said:

I was thinking about all this Crypto/NFT stuff as I was using 2 apps that I have that I have on my phone & use regularly.  

 

The first is Topps Disney Collect that I starting playing when it was recommended by Defunctland back when the Pandemic started.  I challenged myself to get as far as possible using only the free coins that it regularly hands out rather than spending money on it & I've built up quite a collection of Digital Disney Trading Cards at this point, some very rare that I got through lucky drops.  If this app had come out now, would it have been linked to NFT's & the blockchain & Pay only?

 

The second is Pinterest.  I've used this for some time too & built up a collection of JPEG's, Videos, Etc. about subjects that interest me.  Other than the Crypto/Money aspect, could this be considered like an NFT wallet, only without the possibility of having all my ETH stolen when I click on an image?

 

Of course, the fact that I don't pay money for either of these apps or their contents means that I'm a terrible consumer & will be executed by the Crypto Death Squads once they finish gearing up, but at least I'll have some nice pictures to look at before that happens.

Topps is pretty close. Personally I found their implementation of collecting EXTREMELY tiring. Here’s a common set, now collect it in blue, red, yellow, white, green, etc. Fuck me you need patience to stick with that. 
 

What is closest to NFT collecting ideas is the ‘merging’ cards together to get a different one. In NFTs you would ‘burn’ commons, but not necessarily that either. 
 

Topps does the same mistake that every trad card company in the space does. It takes this idea of digital scarcity and immediately devalues almost everything.

 

Does your collection really mean anything to you? Presumably the rarer cards do? 
 

There isn’t that much difference between Topps or Quidd digital apps and equivalent NFT based collectibles technically. There’s more difference in the way the scarcity has been decided upon for individual items (which I think personally makes Topps less appealing).
 

Something like Seussibles which is Dr Seuss ‘stickers’ is very similar. Except for the big crowd of gamers making that zombie screaming noise about ‘environment!’ and ‘scam tokens’. 
 

Also you mention not spending any real money - but presumably you must have spent a lot of time gathering up a big collection on that app?

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Addressing whether you would have had to pay, I think in general yes to have the same experience you probably would. But no reason a company couldn’t provide the exact same experience free of charge to you. The first ever NFT I ever got was that free Street Fighter V one ages ago. 
 

And far from a terrible consumer, you’ve just spent hours of your life deepening your relationship with their IP. 

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It's the same spiel every single time. They list the same "potential benefits for gamers" in terms of "ownership" but every single example can be done without the Blockchain and has in fact been done without the Blockchain. People have been buying and trading Team Fortress items for how many years now? Selling steam trading cards for real money for how many years?

 

But the Blockchain is a buzzword that gets investors going and NFTs are a proven profitable pyramid scheme, and well here we are. Massive benefits, you don't understand if you don't see the benefits, it's the future, join usss.

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What exactly is a ‘proven profitable pyramid scheme’? 😬

 

True though that investors are suffering serious fomo.

 

Also - have I suggested that anyone ‘join usss’ anywhere? 
 

So far the arguments against are ‘pyramid scheme’ - which although could be, probably, quite accurate when applied to most of the 10,000 procedurally generated Octo-Kings etc pfp projects, is quite bizarre when applied to other NFT based collectible systems. It’s just become one of those terms people bandy around, regardless of attachment to any reality.

 

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52 minutes ago, footle said:

All you need to know is that everything Stiff has mentioned there has already been implemented using steam trading cards - including the ability to convert the rare ones into real money - without needing to be hosted on a blockchain and without whatever this week’s energy-analogy-that-isn’t-absolutely-true-because-handwave cost per purchase.

This is true.

 

To be clear - you’re saying that what I described already exists and is a legit business model (collecting digital shit). 

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7 hours ago, sir stiff_one said:

This is true.

 

To be clear - you’re saying that what I described already exists and is a legit business model (collecting digital shit). 


Do you see yet that NFTs are entirely irrelevant to your dream of collecting digital shit?

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10 hours ago, sir stiff_one said:

Topps is pretty close. Personally I found their implementation of collecting EXTREMELY tiring. Here’s a common set, now collect it in blue, red, yellow, white, green, etc. Fuck me you need patience to stick with that. 
 

What is closest to NFT collecting ideas is the ‘merging’ cards together to get a different one. In NFTs you would ‘burn’ commons, but not necessarily that either. 
 

Topps does the same mistake that every trad card company in the space does. It takes this idea of digital scarcity and immediately devalues almost everything.

 

Does your collection really mean anything to you? Presumably the rarer cards do? 
 

There isn’t that much difference between Topps or Quidd digital apps and equivalent NFT based collectibles technically. There’s more difference in the way the scarcity has been decided upon for individual items (which I think personally makes Topps less appealing).
 

Something like Seussibles which is Dr Seuss ‘stickers’ is very similar. Except for the big crowd of gamers making that zombie screaming noise about ‘environment!’ and ‘scam tokens’. 
 

Also you mention not spending any real money - but presumably you must have spent a lot of time gathering up a big collection on that app?

 

I've built up quite a collection on Topps yes, but I don't feel that attached to them & am not even sure what cards I have. There's lots of recolored duplicates & a lot of them aren't that interesting, though I would say that a card that's just a screenshot from a Disney film or Disney character standing there with a flat background is nicer than almost any NFT image.

 

I treat the whole thing more like a high score in a game & if I were to lose it all when I change phones (which I suspect will happen as I don't seem to have any login details, & it may not transfer the collection) I won't be that cut up about it.  It's just something to do on my phone during slack moments of the day that isn't Candy Crush or Angry Birds.

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itch.io have waded in in entertaining fashion. Very hard to disagree:

 

"A few have asked about our stance on NFTs: NFTs are a scam. If you think they are legitimately useful for anything other than the exploitation of creators, financial scams, and the destruction of the planet the we ask that please reevaluate your life choices."

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I have to admit, one really appealing thing about NFTs is selling my digital game content onto a secondary market place to other buyers which was not possible or feasible before NFTs. I know with NFT's you need to get the magical energy of making a cuppa on a certain high power kettle and need to involve crypto and blockchains, but it is worth it for something that could not be done without the cuppa energy and magical ledger in the cloud

 

https://www.mtgotraders.com/hotlist/#/

 

Oh....

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14 hours ago, Jarik said:

 

though I would say that a card that's just a screenshot from a Disney film or Disney character standing there with a flat background is nicer than almost any NFT image.

Right, but an NFT image doesn’t look like anything. Topps recreated physical cards in the digital world (more or less). You could have that, or you could have something interactive, or a 3D model, or Harry Potter style moving photos, etc. 

 

Disney, Marvel and DC have all done various collectibles, some of them look good and some of them look properly shonky, just like the merch they do in the physical world.

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