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5R7

By 5R7,
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feltmonkey

feltmonkey

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I can't believe what I've just seen. Rashford has been doing that bloody attempt to dribble through tight spaces all season without success. He finally pulls it off and flipping Elanga brings him down!  That was it, the brilliant Rashford redemption goal, and a brainless moment from a guy who was standing offside thwarts it.  :facepalm:

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feltmonkey

feltmonkey

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Louis Van Gaal has prostate cancer.  :(

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60977535

 

I hope he can beat it. The team played some dull football under him, but he himself was very entertaining, whether he was throwing himself on the floor in front of the fourth official, mentioning shex masochism, or praising the saxophone lady.  The club treated him quite badly, sacking him just as he was getting the team playing some good stuff, and just after he won the FA Cup. Wasn't he sacked before he even got on the bus back from Wembley? His recent comments about Erik Ten Hag being better off going to a football club than a commercial club like United were unfortunately spot on as well.

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spork

spork

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18 minutes ago, 5R7 said:

so...is that a good appointment?


Feels like Poch would be a safe bet to get us back into the top 4 but it’s hard to see him taking us any further than that.

 

With Ten Hag it feels like it’s a bit of a riskier choice but the ceiling for what he can achieve is a lot higher.

 

This is mostly based on what I’ve read on Reddit than anything else mind :lol:

 

Of course he’s coming from Ajax who are very well run so coming to this circus might end up being a big mistake for him but you never know!

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feltmonkey

feltmonkey

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Ten Hag is very much the hipster's choice.  If he is appointed, I'm hopeful but skeptical.  He's never managed at a high level.  He's won the Eredivisie, but Frank De Boer won that four times in a row.  Frank De Boer.  The man Mourinho justifyably described as the worst manager in the history of the Premier League.  The man who, when asked by the Dutch press who was going to play on the right wing for the Netherlands in Euro 2020, named a player he had left out of the squad. 

 

Ten Hag had a great Champions League run a couple of years ago, but it's dangerous to rate managers too highly based on cup runs.  Generally, in modern times, successful Ajax managers tend not to do well when they leave Ajax.  I've read that he prefers to have the kind of structure he has at Ajax, with Van Der Sar as a Director of Football who actually has some understanding of the sport, unlike what we've got at United. 

 

That Reddit buzz is incredibly irritating.  It's driven by morons, the same people who reckon we should sell Rashford.  Ten Hag might be good, but I wouldn't listen to their weirdly confident opinions and reasoning as to why he should be the man.  A recent poll revealed that virtually none of them had actually watched an Ajax match this season.  They want Ten Hag because it's more exotic and mysterious than getting some guy who has already managed in the Premier League (making Spurs of all people into a very good team without spending any money.)  Pochettino has flopped at PSG, but it's difficult to judge his tenure there in the context of all the fucking about by Leonardo and Nasser Al-Khelaifi.  

 

Who knows what the best appointment would be.  Whichever one we don't make, I suspect.  Either way, the next manager is as screwed as all the previous ones since SAF as they will be managing, as Van Gaal said, a commercial club rather than a football club.  Don't expect anything to improve until that changes.

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Loik V credern

Loik V credern

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Apparently René Meulensteen is in the running to return as assistant. 

 

Also apparently Ten Hag has been a fan of Ruben Neves for years and will try to get him, he's been linked to United for a while anyway. 

 

Also apparently there's only £60m for transfers this summer, I'm bored of this squad and really want a different viewpoint with different players especially in midfield. 

 

I agree Ten Hag is the favourite of fans because he's exotic but also because we're getting someone whose best is yet to come. I absolutely think he'd have been in the running to take over from Pep when he leaves in 2/3 years. 

 

Ten Hag just seems more astute and smarter than De Boer, winning Eredivisie doesn't mean much and it wasn't that Ten Hag had a Champions league run but how they did it, battering a Real Madrid side who had won it 3 consecutive times is not nothing when everything went right for them in the competition. You can see it still now against Psg and Chelsea, big players who know how to win these games. Ajax didn't turn up and accept defeat, they dominated the tie. And did the same against Juventus. 

 

It's how meticulous and system obsessed Ten Hag seems to be that's so impressive. His stats in comparison to De Boer are far more impressive, 74% to 60% win %. 573 goals in 208 games to 557 in 263 games. 398 goal difference to 294. 

 

I know United is a commercial club but so are most top clubs. Are Barcelona not commercial? And not even more of a mess? Yet Xavi, with far less experience has transformed them in a way I don't think anyone expected. Who knows if they'll continue and they have two of the best young midfielders in the world, a resurgent Dembele and a Aubameyang who can be arsed, so more positives than United have really but in the last 18 months anyone would say United have more going for them. 

 

Ten Hag is smart enough to know that however much he thinks of his methods, if the club doesn't have the right structure and make the right signings then he won't succeed. Hopefully the short termism and big name signings are over as the club realise 4th is no longer certain anymore. There are 4 better managers at least in the league. In time Ten Hag might prove he's a match for Pep, Klopp, Tuchel and Conte. I don't think anyone can say Pochettino is better than any of them either.

 

The only thing is...Pochettino is all about passion, deep connection to players, commitment, a tight group. And those things seem things that United's players respond to. Anything more system based like Van Gal and Rangnick doesn't work so well. But then Pochettino likes pressing as well and the players don’t respond to that either. 

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davidcotton

davidcotton

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Posted
9 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

Ten Hag is very much the hipster's choice.  If he is appointed, I'm hopeful but skeptical.  He's never managed at a high level.  He's won the Eredivisie, but Frank De Boer won that four times in a row.  Frank De Boer.  The man Mourinho justifyably described as the worst manager in the history of the Premier League.  The man who, when asked by the Dutch press who was going to play on the right wing for the Netherlands in Euro 2020, named a player he had left out of the squad. 

 

Ten Hag had a great Champions League run a couple of years ago, but it's dangerous to rate managers too highly based on cup runs.  Generally, in modern times, successful Ajax managers tend not to do well when they leave Ajax.  I've read that he prefers to have the kind of structure he has at Ajax, with Van Der Sar as a Director of Football who actually has some understanding of the sport, unlike what we've got at United. 

 

That Reddit buzz is incredibly irritating.  It's driven by morons, the same people who reckon we should sell Rashford.  Ten Hag might be good, but I wouldn't listen to their weirdly confident opinions and reasoning as to why he should be the man.  A recent poll revealed that virtually none of them had actually watched an Ajax match this season.  They want Ten Hag because it's more exotic and mysterious than getting some guy who has already managed in the Premier League (making Spurs of all people into a very good team without spending any money.)  Pochettino has flopped at PSG, but it's difficult to judge his tenure there in the context of all the fucking about by Leonardo and Nasser Al-Khelaifi.  

 

Who knows what the best appointment would be.  Whichever one we don't make, I suspect.  Either way, the next manager is as screwed as all the previous ones since SAF as they will be managing, as Van Gaal said, a commercial club rather than a football club.  Don't expect anything to improve until that changes.

Re Poch at psg failing. Tuchel walked away remember.  
 

Until/unless you sort out the structure of the club itself then I can’t see what difference any new manager will make.  Probably be having a similar conversation in about 18 months I reckon. 

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Loik V credern

Loik V credern

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Yeah i've read that reddit post a few times, the thing with the 'redditers who haven't watched Ajax this season' thing..I haven't even watched United for the last month...doing something else at the time. There's so much football it's easy to get fatigued..it takes time, access, money most people don't have.

 

21 minutes ago, davidcotton said:

Re Poch at psg failing. Tuchel walked away remember.  
 

Until/unless you sort out the structure of the club itself then I can’t see what difference any new manager will make.  Probably be having a similar conversation in about 18 months I reckon. 

 

This is a bit defeatist and to me still seems like people are hung up on Ole not suceeding and supposing no manager ever can. I agree things need to change in terms of structure and culture but why won't that happen? If the club continue to buy players for marketing reasons/to deny Man City and with no idea where they'll fit in then i agree, but i think they realise 4th is no longer certain and they can't fluke it any more. Conte is looking like he'll get Spurs to 4th and if he does it'll be because he's a better coach than Arteta and Rangnick. That's what i think, if people still think managers have little influence then sure. I think there are hundreds of ways they affect things, details we don't see.

 

The system approach is more my concern..but in time bringing through youth who are willing to learn and players from outside more eager then hopefully it'll work.

 

i like to watch Tadic's performance against Madrid occassionly because it really was something else

 

 

here's him going through it in insane detail:

 

 

If that's just a player going through positioning and movement, then it bodes well for how thorough Ten Hag is.

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feltmonkey

feltmonkey

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@davidcotton Yeah, I agree.  That's what I'm saying in the last paragraph.  It's difficult to believe that all the post-Fergie years of changing managers and signing dozens of players hasn't taught us that none of this will help unless a change in priorities and focus happens further up the clubs structure.  While the priority is solely on making money, then we won't have a successful team on the pitch.  The owners and every layer of management above Darren Fletcher are only interested in profits.  If the club won something, that would be nice, but it's not really relevant to what they are trying to do.  They are not willing to jeprodise profits by putting someone in charge who will focus on the footballing side of things. 

 

Whoever we get in, they are doomed.  It doesn't even matter who it is, at the end of the day.

 

9 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

 

Also apparently there's only £60m for transfers this summer, I'm bored of this squad and really want a different viewpoint with different players especially in midfield. 

 

 

You keep saying this.  It makes you sound like the hedonism bot from Futurama.

 

Quote

I agree Ten Hag is the favourite of fans because he's exotic but also because we're getting someone whose best is yet to come. I absolutely think he'd have been in the running to take over from Pep when he leaves in 2/3 years. 

 

Ten Hag is actually older than both Pochettino and Guardiola.  This doesn't mean his best is behind him or anything, and perhaps the fact that he hasn't been burned out by the rigours of top-flight management will be a benefit, but it's worth bearing in mind that we wouldn't be getting some young, hungry Nagelsmann type.

 

Quote

Ten Hag just seems more astute and smarter than De Boer, winning Eredivisie doesn't mean much and it wasn't that Ten Hag had a Champions league run but how they did it, battering a Real Madrid side who had won it 3 consecutive times is not nothing when everything went right for them in the competition. You can see it still now against Psg and Chelsea, big players who know how to win these games. Ajax didn't turn up and accept defeat, they dominated the tie. And did the same against Juventus. 

 

It's how meticulous and system obsessed Ten Hag seems to be that's so impressive. His stats in comparison to De Boer are far more impressive, 74% to 60% win %. 573 goals in 208 games to 557 in 263 games. 398 goal difference to 294. 

 

Ten Hag is smart enough to know that however much he thinks of his methods, if the club doesn't have the right structure and make the right signings then he won't succeed. Hopefully the short termism and big name signings are over as the club realise 4th is no longer certain anymore. There are 4 better managers at least in the league. In time Ten Hag might prove he's a match for Pep, Klopp, Tuchel and Conte. I don't think anyone can say Pochettino is better than any of them either.

 

 

All very good points.  To be clear, I'm not against Ten Hag, nor am I in Camp Poch.  I'm tempering my own expectations to a degree.  I want to believe, but you know...

 

Quote

I know United is a commercial club but so are most top clubs. Are Barcelona not commercial? And not even more of a mess? Yet Xavi, with far less experience has transformed them in a way I don't think anyone expected. Who knows if they'll continue and they have two of the best young midfielders in the world, a resurgent Dembele and a Aubameyang who can be arsed, so more positives than United have really but in the last 18 months anyone would say United have more going for them. 

 

They are a commercial club as well, of course, but not to anything like the degree of United.  Barcelona are still a football club first and a commercial entity second, I would say.  They are also a political entity, which complicates matters.  Maybe football first, politics second, money third in their case.  Anyway, I can't think of a single other football club that focusses so much on the commercial side to the detriment of the football as United.  Can you?  Or even in the whole world of sport.  The New York Yankees?  Perhaps the Dallas Cowboys or the LA Lakers?  Even they win stuff sometimes.

 

Quote

The only thing is...Pochettino is all about passion, deep connection to players, commitment, a tight group. And those things seem things that United's players respond to. Anything more system based like Van Gal and Rangnick doesn't work so well. But then Pochettino likes pressing as well and the players don’t respond to that either. 

 

That's a really good point.  I hadn't thought about that.  I think Poch is better tactically than many give him credit for, but then so was Ole.  

 

Quote

Yeah i've read that reddit post a few times, the thing with the 'redditers who haven't watched Ajax this season' thing..I haven't even watched United for the last month...doing something else at the time. There's so much football it's easy to get fatigued..it takes time, access, money most people don't have.

 

I have.  Ajax play some wonderful football, but they play against really weak opposition and are able to bully them.  Players who didn't do much in the Premier League look world class in comparison to the opposition.  They don't really just tear teams apart because of the system.  I do hope that if Ten Hag gets the job he brings Ryan Gravenberch and Antony with him though.  I've also watched all United's games that you've missed.  That's why I'm defeatist about the whole thing.  We're wretched.

 

See you in about two and a half years when we're discussing the next manager who we're hoping will rescue us from the quicksand.

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spork

spork

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7 minutes ago, feltmonkey said:

 

 

See you in about two and a half years when we're discussing the next manager who we're hoping will rescue us from the quicksand.


While we watch as Poch lifts his second consecutive league and champions league titles with whichever club takes him on next.

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Gabe

Gabe

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What's wrong with Phillips? I would've thought he would suit you quite well, playing a Michael Carrick role. He's mobile, can pass & tackle and has the ever-desired 'good engine' that you want in your holding midfielder.

 

The main negative would be his injury record I suppose.

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spork

spork

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3 minutes ago, Gabe said:

 

 

The main negative would be his injury record I suppose.

 

And price I imagine.

 

Not sure the Manchester Evening News is a particulary reliable news source for transfers though.

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Gabe

Gabe

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38 minutes ago, spork said:

 

And price I imagine.

 

Not sure the Manchester Evening News is a particulary reliable news source for transfers though.

Yeah, I doubt an established England international - in a position every club in the world knows you desperately need - would be cheap. But do you think he would be a good fit for you?

 

I'm curious why @Nickyseems to disapprove, is it you don't believe he's good enough? I mean, you play Fred and Scott McTominay so I'm not sure you are in much of a position to be choosy...

 

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