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The Man Utd Thread


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3 hours ago, GamesGamesGames said:

 

The impression I get with JW is that he's one of those people who finds fault in everything, joy in little, and that's the easiest thing to do.

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It's very sad to see Ole have to leave like this. He genuinely loves the club and knows what you need to play for a club like Man Utd. For whatever reason, he wasn't able to coach the best out of the very good squad he has assembled, but he will be remembered for bringing a squad together again after a tumultuous few years post-Fergie. 

 

I had a discussion with a friend last night and he couldn't quite understand how I thought his tenure was a success, given he has no trophies at the end. Should I kill him? 

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3 minutes ago, Seanfl9 said:

I had a discussion with a friend last night and he couldn't quite understand how I thought his tenure was a success, given he has no trophies at the end. Should I kill him? 

 

It's been great for the other teams.

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43 minutes ago, Seanfl9 said:

It's very sad to see Ole have to leave like this. He genuinely loves the club and knows what you need to play for a club like Man Utd. For whatever reason, he wasn't able to coach the best out of the very good squad he has assembled, but he will be remembered for bringing a squad together again after a tumultuous few years post-Fergie. 

 

I had a discussion with a friend last night and he couldn't quite understand how I thought his tenure was a success, given he has no trophies at the end. Should I kill him? 

 

Ole left United in far better shape than he found it, and it could well be that his work will only find proper context when the next coach has taken the next few steps. Ole inherited a thoroughly unlikeable and mediocre squad and - up until being shafted from above at the end of the transfer window - had taken great strides to remedy that. I wish he had handled Pogba differently, settled the first-choice keeper issue, and prioritised mobility in a marquee centre-back, but over the three years he leaves in credit.

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2 hours ago, ckny said:

Simon Stone reporting that Pochettino could be on, and soon, not at the end of the season. Zizou would replace him at PSG.

 

🤞

 

This would be one of those rare situations where both clubs and both managers would benefit. Poch reportedly dislikes the set up at PSG where he's a glorified first team coach with Leonardo running everything else, something that would suit Zidane.  Poch would get much more control at United, and he has made no secret of his desire to manage in England again.  You'd think Zidane would be well-suited to getting a tune out of the collection of superstars that is the PSG team, as that's what he did at Madrid, plus they are obsessed with the Champions League, and he seems to know how to win that.  Poch would be a great fit for our disorganised and demotivated team, and would benefit from having the money to spend that he was denied at Spurs.  Get it done now and there's time to plan for the January window in order to salvage something from this season, get back into the top four, and be in a strong position for the start of next season.  Top four is still in our grasp, as West Ham and Wolves will probably slip away, and Leicester are not challenging this year, so the two teams we realistically need to beat are Arsenal and Spurs, both of whom look strong, but do not have squads as good as ours on paper.

 

The only thing that could really get in the way of this mutually beneficial bit of manager swapping is someone's ego scuppering it.  So it definitely won't happen, sorry guys.

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Why would you leave PSG, top of the table with 11 points, 2nd in your Champions League group, give up managing Messi, Neymar, Mbappe (possibly for the only time in your life you will ever be able to do so) however enormous their egos are and the difficulty of forming a well balanced team with them in it, to start a rebuilding job with Man United half way through a season? Why not stay until the end of the season and win trophies you never have in your career? 

 

Pochettino seems like he treasures the culture of a club more than just using a club to gain trophies to put on his cv to gain bigger jobs, I still think he'd be mad to leave mid season. It's different with Rodgers at Celtic and Gerrard at Rangers when they won the league and didn't have as much to prove.

 

Still think the news as soon as he arrived at PSG of him being willing to leave to go back to England were hard to believe. Still now that he'd be willing are, but then Conte linked to Spurs in the summer was surprising and now going there despite him surely knowing Ole wouldn't last past Christmas is surprising too, for me at least. 

 

If we wanted Pochettino, why not actually hire him when he was available last November? I think if you're too slow to make the change when you have the chance, then you can't complain. You have to suck it up and give up the idea the world revolves around Man United.

 

I don't think United should bother trying to hire any manager at a current club at the moment, I think they should basically hire currently job-less Favre and tell him there's a possibility he'll only get until the end of the season depending on the willingness of Pochettino, Erik Ten Hag or Rodgers to join then. I don't think Favre in any other situation is getting the Man United job so for him the raise in his profile would be massive. 

 

Is he one of the absolute top managers in the world? No. Did he bring the best out of Sancho and numerous other young players and play some of the most high tempo exciting football around? Yeah. While also being completely hopeless at the back? Sure. To bring the best out of Sancho alone I don't think it's such a bad idea. And maybe he won't despise Van De Beek and continue to destroy his career despite being a nice guy, who knows?

 

Maybe we can all allow ourselves to be perhaps idealistic and think it's possible for the entire world to end its obsession with economic growth and gdp and move to a more sustainable future and avoid extinction while at the same time declare it's impossible that Man United can be successful with a 36 year old forward who doesn't press as much? 

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He lives in a hotel with his family still in the UK.  That alone is enough.  On top of this,  he's not being allowed to do his job.  Sure, at PSG he might win a hollow league title, but it might not mean much to him, and certainly won't mean anything to the club's ownership or fans.  He may see that United is a much better fit for him as a job - he's a guy who wants to build a legacy. That's what he did at Southampton, and what he wanted to do at Spurs.

 

I get what you're saying about why would anyone want to take over us, and I myself likened it to taking over a circus.  He should probably also be worried about whether he would get his signings or random marquee names dumped on him.

 

The most important point might be that the majority of the players at PSG are bellends, and who wants to work with a bunch of bellends?

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37 minutes ago, feltmonkey said:

He lives in a hotel with his family still in the UK.  That alone is enough.  On top of this,  he's not being allowed to do his job.  Sure, at PSG he might win a hollow league title, but it might not mean much to him, and certainly won't mean anything to the club's ownership or fans.  He may see that United is a much better fit for him as a job - he's a guy who wants to build a legacy. That's what he did at Southampton, and what he wanted to do at Spurs.

 

I get what you're saying about why would anyone want to take over us, and I myself likened it to taking over a circus.  He should probably also be worried about whether he would get his signings or random marquee names dumped on him.

 

The most important point might be that the majority of the players at PSG are bellends, and who wants to work with a bunch of bellends?

 

It's not whether he'll leave but whether he'd do it mid season and give up giving it a proper go, an opportunity like that, a manager who went through Espanyol and Southampton before really proving to the world how good he was at Spurs. Psg did have Blanc and Emery as managers, so their standards aren't too high that Pochettino wouldn't think he'd get the opportunity again, and i guess others might not rate the job as highly as I am doing right now. He is probably more like Bielsa than any other manager around, who wants to creates a strong bond between fan and players, and doesn't see himself as merely someone doing his job but being part of something special.

 

They might be bellends but they're still the greatest player of all time and Argentinian legend for fellow Argentinian Pochettino and two generational talents that can reach heights we rarely see. Pochettino has managed Eriksen, Lallana, Dembele, Kane and Son but this? Players who he'll tell his grandkids about that he managed them. He's not even been there a year, i wouldn't give that up so readily. Unless it's that tortuous and he's that much of a control freak perfectionist. I'm sure he knew what he was getting himself into before he went there and accepts it's not perfect. Long term...yeah, it's not for him. I'm thinking of him like i would a player who i don't want to arrive if it's likely to ruin their career.

 

People seem to forget Klopp was being criticised and thought 'not good enough' who just couldn't win with LIverpool when he kept losing finals with them before winning everything, and he had the Bundesliga double to prove his quality. People would always throw the 'never won anything' tag at Pochettino regardless how he did, i wouldn't want him to move from Spurs after 4 seasons and do 3 seasons at Man United and not win anything, leave and his career to not be in the same place as it was. The cup he won when he arrived at Psg isn't really his. Given Pochettino didn't value domestic cups while at Southampton and Spurs it's not unlikely his 3 years prove trophy less. Even Liverpool haven't done well in the domestic cups have they under Klopp?

 

Anyway, everyone has already decided competing and winning isn't possible while Ronaldo is in the side so why waste a few years of Pochettino on that?

 

yeah i said Lallana, i'm leaving that in, i'm not taking it out however distracting it might be..

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I don't think "everybody" has decided that, have they?  I'm not in the anti-Ronaldo camp personally.  I'm very suspicious of the reasons behind the owners signing him, and I worry that he isn't doing the balance of the team many favours, but I'm delighted he's here.  I think some of the stuff I've read (not just here) about his work-rate is exaggerated.  He works hard on the pitch.  He's 36 and can't be expected to hassle defenders for 90 minutes like Saurez in his prime, but he's not shirking.  He's also scored most of our goals and is the sole reason we're still in the Champions League.  Not every team has to be a high-pressing team, and we weren't one before this season, so I don't know why "we can't press!" has become a reason why we've failed this season.  The reason we've failed is Maguire's abject form and Verane and Rashford's injuries, frankly.

 

Still, I can't see Pochettino coming mid-season anyway.  I think it would be to everyone's benefit, including his, but no, of course it won't happen.  I worry about this concept of "interim manager, then we'll get Poch in the summer."  That's exactly what the plan was last time.  If there's even a chance of getting him now it would be negligent not to try.  Unfortunately, our owners are consistently negligent.  So it goes.

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its not often id ever agree with paul merson, but, on this... yeah!

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/15205/12475619/paul-merson-cristiano-ronaldo-signing-messed-up-ole-gunnar-solskjaers-manchester-united-plan

 

"I feel sorry for Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. He had a plan at the start of the season, having finished second last season. He's chased Jadon Sancho for a long time, got him in, and he's given Edinson Cavani another year.

You could see his plan: you play Cavani every other game, you have Sancho on one side, Marcus Rashford on the other, you have Mason Greenwood coming in and swapping around, you have pace, power, energy, youth, skill, the lot."

 

 

and yeah, in the league, we are better without ronaldo...

skysports-ronaldo-graphic-man_5592011.jpg?20211122130933

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Perhaps don't play Ronaldo so much then? A radical thought. I know I know, the Glazers were holding  Solskjaer's family hostage in case he dared to challenge Ronaldo's authority/told to play him/not told to play him, just abstractly suggested in this weird narrative that the United board scuppered Ole's chances this season. He's employed and paid millions to do a job, it's not perfect and never will be, I don't get this idea a manager can only avoid being battered by a recently promoted relegation battling Watford if he gets every single he wants. No manager gets every single signing he wants. Guardiola didn't get a striker. Bloody Tuchel just lost the only 2 he has for a month. They don't suddenly completely fall apart and have no idea what they are doing. 

 

There is no parallel universe where Ronaldo went to City and United are flying away with the league. It'd be as wildly inconsistent as it always was, but I guess if you come 2nd all that's forgotten. There was no Europa league cup because Ole didn't rotate over the season, favourite players were run into the ground and played through injuries, it wasn't because of an unlucky shoot out. It shouldn't have got to that. 

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7 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

People would always throw the 'never won anything' tag at Pochettino regardless how he did, i wouldn't want him to move from Spurs after 4 seasons and do 3 seasons at Man United and not win anything, leave and his career to not be in the same place as it was. The cup he won when he arrived at Psg isn't really his. Given Pochettino didn't value domestic cups while at Southampton and Spurs it's not unlikely his 3 years prove trophy less. Even Liverpool haven't done well in the domestic cups have they under Klopp?


Whilst it’s true that Pochettino did win that French equivalent of the Charity Shield after about three days in charge, he also won the proper domestic cup competition, the Coupe De France, at the end of last season too.

 

I loved his time at Spurs, but there were plenty of valid criticisms thrown at him - substitutions often made too late to have an influence on a game, or which were just plain odd, no Plan B when Plan A hadn’t worked, playing a half fit striker who hadn’t kicked a ball in six weeks in your club’s biggest game for decades instead of the guy who scored the hat-trick that got you there, and a lot of semi-final defeats too. That said, I still think he’s excellent, and with the right support I think he’d do very well in Manchester.

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7 hours ago, Jammy said:

but there were plenty of valid criticisms thrown at him - substitutions often made too late to have an influence on a game, or which were just plain odd, no Plan B when Plan A hadn’t worked, playing a half fit striker who hadn’t kicked a ball in six weeks in your club’s biggest game for decades instead of the guy who scored the hat-trick that got you there, and a lot of semi-final defeats too.


Sounds like he’d fit right in :lol:

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8 hours ago, Jammy said:


Whilst it’s true that Pochettino did win that French equivalent of the Charity Shield after about three days in charge, he also won the proper domestic cup competition, the Coupe De France, at the end of last season too.

 

I loved his time at Spurs, but there were plenty of valid criticisms thrown at him - substitutions often made too late to have an influence on a game, or which were just plain odd, no Plan B when Plan A hadn’t worked, playing a half fit striker who hadn’t kicked a ball in six weeks in your club’s biggest game for decades instead of the guy who scored the hat-trick that got you there, and a lot of semi-final defeats too. That said, I still think he’s excellent, and with the right support I think he’d do very well in Manchester.

You forgot to mention his baffling decision to play Son as a left wing-back in the FA Cup semi-final against Chelsea which ended up costing us the game.

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1 minute ago, SaintAnselm said:

You forgot to mention his baffling decision to play Son as a left wing-back in the FA Cup semi-final against Chelsea which ended up costing us the game.

I didn’t forget, I just thought I’d gone far enough already 😆

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Watching Man City again and motd2 going through their play from that birds eye view, I...just want that. I want forward players to stay as far wide as possible to constantly give the fullback a decision to make and leave a gap inside for a run. I want those runs in behind from wide that ends with a low cross across the box for a tap in (the Walker run, the Sterling free hit). I want the switching of play. Coady said 'it looks complicated to us, it's easy for them. Just repetition of play day after day'. I'm surprised how good City have been this season, how easy they find it to score 3/4 nearly every game. Why don't more teams play this way?

 

Then again I remember a motd where they were baffled by Van Gal sending (I think it was) Rashford and Martial to do the exact same thing  and they were like 'they're miles away from eachother!' And Chapman was like 'so they've been instructed to do that right?' and the answer was 'yes'. They were like 'Martial and Rashford should be linking up...look at this earlier game'. 

 

City just a range of options in every game they can use and they have so much of the ball they tire defenders out, switching the attempts until a defender is conflicted in who he's marking that he's a yard off and...goal. It's simple football but the complexity is training every player to understand what they're meant to be doing so it'sinstinctiveand they make the right decisions. If people really can't see a difference between whatever United have been trying to do for a year compared with City except 'they have better players therefore they win' then...ok.

 

Also psg mega fan Jules said it's Pochettino's dream to manage United, if that's true then I guess it's likely. I just thought he was keen, not his dream. 

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Would be very happy if they could get Pochettino in before the end of the season, although not ideal circumstances for him to come in.

 

They should have signed him two summers ago, they should have even got him last summer when he was available.

 

I think Ronaldo is going to be a tough one for him to solve though given how Poch likes to play. The pressure having Ronaldo in the side put on the midfield has been pretty telling this season. 

 

One ray of hope there is that Poch has been doing ok with a pretty lazy front three at PSG and while it's not the same as the Premier League, i'd hope he'd figure out a way to intergrate Ronaldo into a side with more balance than there is now.

 

I actually think Cavani would be a good option for Poch when he's fit, he works really hard for the team.

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