God of War Ragnarok

[Steve McQueef]

Alternatively, eBay's been littered with people selling their digital codes from the GoW PS5 console bundle. 

[Floshenbarnical]

19 hours ago, FalconGR said:

I’ve been skipping all the optional bits and just doing the story, and it’s working for me. As you say it’s the story and combat that are the fun parts - the gear and skills trees are all completely pointless and overwhelming, but so far it seems fine to basically ignore them. I might do the favours at the end, but 30 hours or so for the story feels like a good amount for this kind of time. 

 

I'm still on hiatus from this, trying to complete GoW '18 first, but I can't say I agree. I didn't start enjoying the game fully until I was able to put some points into the skill trees. The axe and blade skill trees give you extra moves that make combat more varied and enjoyable

 

I'm really enjoying these games and I didn't expect to. It's a bit self-indulgent and masturbatory, with the endless painstaking and ponderous exploration, but it's charming and enjoyable all the same. I've been taking the time to explore every nook and cranny before continuing the story, so now I'm almost indestructible even though I only just completed Altheim in each game.

[Faded]

Just wrapped up the main story and will take a break to play something else. I may or may not go back to finish up side quests and do some post game content. I thought I would with the 2018 game but never did. 
 

I really enjoyed it by the end. It has the massive scale and pomp these games have always had and some nice quieter character moments. I really liked it by the time I was done. 
 

 

The pacing is absolutely fucked though, especially early on. I completely agree with the people saying mainline the story as much as possible. Especially since weapon upgrades are usually tied to bosses on the main path. Opening up those combat options was a big part of me starting to enjoy the game. 

 

[BadgerFarmer]

With the skill tree, I unlocked something when it was first introduced, then pretty much forgot it existed for the next eight hours or so. By the time I remembered, I had enough points to unlock everything that my axe/bow levels allowed.

 

I don't think that's a good thing. A skill tree should have exciting stuff in it that you look forward to unlocking. Ideally, it should involve choices that push the character towards potentially different styles of play, rather than just a mass of stuff to bulk out a move set. 

 

Really, the whole upgrade system (skills and weapons/armour) for the most part seems to exist purely to incentivise exploration. It's there mostly just because something needs to be there so you get a sense of achievement for looking around. For the great majority of the game, it's not intrinsic to the experience of combat and navigation.

[Pob]

5 hours ago, BadgerFarmer said:

With the skill tree, I unlocked something when it was first introduced, then pretty much forgot it existed for the next eight hours or so. By the time I remembered, I had enough points to unlock everything that my axe/bow levels allowed.

 

I don't think that's a good thing. A skill tree should have exciting stuff in it that you look forward to unlocking. Ideally, it should involve choices that push the character towards potentially different styles of play, rather than just a mass of stuff to bulk out a move set. 

 

Really, the whole upgrade system (skills and weapons/armour) for the most part seems to exist purely to incentivise exploration. It's there mostly just because something needs to be there so you get a sense of achievement for looking around. For the great majority of the game, it's not intrinsic to the experience of combat and navigation.

 

I couldn't disagree more with this. I'm 50 hours in, on the toughest skill level, currently alternating between The Crater and Muspelheim, and I'm using 90% of the moves I've unlocked regularly and with intent (admittedly I've not got into Draupnir yet). It did take many hours to learn all these moves and when to use them. For example, I never used the moves that charge your weapon up (hold or mash triangle) but now I've powered them I've realised how useful they are for applying Burn and Frost. Frosting up the axe while running and then doing that huge uppercut is a great combo starter / frost-dealer. And the flame whiplash moves are great for applying Burn at range and staggering enemies. I've also been swapping out runic attacks for different bosses - something I never did in the first game.

 

As with most games, it needs to be very difficult to force the player to really explore their options and internalise the moveset. I started the game on the second hardest difficulty and it was pretty easy. I could hack my way through most encounters and fully ignore most abilities. I assume this is why the only option in From games is Very Hard - to force you to fully engage with the combat. In some fights I've had to use my full suite of runic, relic, buddy and rage attacks.

 

In terms of different styles of play, I'd argue these definitely do emerge later on. I'm focused on applying status effects and then switching weapon to maximise damage by using the opposite element, and also realm shifting (slowing time). I love it when I find gear that help with that. I can see there are all sorts of builds that will presumably help in the various post-campaign challenges.

[footle]

6 hours ago, BadgerFarmer said:

With the skill tree, I unlocked something when it was first introduced, then pretty much forgot it existed for the next eight hours or so. By the time I remembered, I had enough points to unlock everything that my axe/bow levels allowed.

 

I don't think that's a good thing. A skill tree should have exciting stuff in it that you look forward to unlocking. Ideally, it should involve choices that push the character towards potentially different styles of play, rather than just a mass of stuff to bulk out a move set. 

 

Really, the whole upgrade system (skills and weapons/armour) for the most part seems to exist purely to incentivise exploration. It's there mostly just because something needs to be there so you get a sense of achievement for looking around. For the great majority of the game, it's not intrinsic to the experience of combat and navigation.

It’s difficult - I imagine on the harder difficulty levels (as Pob says) it becomes relevant that there are these moves. But as you point out you’re not making a meaningful choice when selecting between moves to upgrade: the choice comes when you’re button mashing (engaging with the systems in combat).

and I struggle to believe that anyone finds the upgrades as being something you look forward to unlocking. Anymore than yet-another-minor-increment in the Horizon skill tree (now you can use TWO grenades!) or Valhalla skill tree (adrenaline upgrade! (Though there you could at least see your way to things like being able to chain assassinations)) is fun.

 

Much of it - eg. the artefact system - just feels like fluff on Normal though, even on some of the harder post campaign bosses.

[BadgerFarmer]

6 hours ago, Pob said:

 

I couldn't disagree more with this. I'm 50 hours in, on the toughest skill level, currently alternating between The Crater and Muspelheim, and I'm using 90% of the moves I've unlocked regularly and with intent (admittedly I've not got into Draupnir yet). It did take many hours to learn all these moves and when to use them. For example, I never used the moves that charge your weapon up (hold or mash triangle) but now I've powered them I've realised how useful they are for applying Burn and Frost. Frosting up the axe while running and then doing that huge uppercut is a great combo starter / frost-dealer. And the flame whiplash moves are great for applying Burn at range and staggering enemies. I've also been swapping out runic attacks for different bosses - something I never did in the first game.

 

As with most games, it needs to be very difficult to force the player to really explore their options and internalise the moveset. I started the game on the second hardest difficulty and it was pretty easy. I could hack my way through most encounters and fully ignore most abilities. I assume this is why the only option in From games is Very Hard - to force you to fully engage with the combat. In some fights I've had to use my full suite of runic, relic, buddy and rage attacks.

 

In terms of different styles of play, I'd argue these definitely do emerge later on. I'm focused on applying status effects and then switching weapon to maximise damage by using the opposite element, and also realm shifting (slowing time). I love it when I find gear that help with that. I can see there are all sorts of builds that will presumably help in the various post-campaign challenges.

I tried to anticipate this by using qualifying terms like 'for the most part' and 'for the majority'. I don't doubt that it becomes important in endgame challenges or higher level play. But you can still pretty much ignore most of it on standard difficulty, which is far from ideal.

[Retroguy]

I like the skill tree system- it’s far better than the usual ‘power yourself up and just continue playing how you have been the whole game’. It challenges you to use the new moves, and when you master them, you’re more powerful than you were before but you’ve earned it.

 

Other than maybe the standard difficulty being a bit too easy, surely the point of lower difficulties is just to allow people to button mash through them, so I don’t really get the criticism.   You can totally use the new moves to play differently, but it’s just more of a choice than a necessity on those lower levels. So just increase the difficulty.

[BadgerFarmer]

There's a difference between making things more difficult and more interesting.

[joffocakes]

On 10/11/2022 at 01:00, joffocakes said:

I've played about an hour and a half of this and it's already made my PS5 crash three times Not even back to the home screen, just suddenly powers down. Had to switch it off at the mains for a while to get it to turn back on.

 

On performance mode that full time so might try another to see if that's the issue, as well as other games but if it's just GoW causing it I'll likely just return it til there's a fix.

 

After a run of 30-ish hours with no issues I've had a trio of crashes again today while clearing out the last couple of % from a large (optional?) side area.

 

It likely is a temperature issue since my PS5 is vertical and I played for around 2 hours today when usually its 30-ish minute sessions.

 

Anyway, despite the crashes this area has been the highlight of the game for me so far. Exploration is a little more free and there's decent combat variety now that so many skills are available.

[Thor]

10 minutes ago, BadgerFarmer said:

There's a difference between making things more difficult and more interesting.

That is a circular argument which retroguy has already tried to answer. To make things more interesting at standard difficulty would mean creatiing complexity (and potentially difficulty) for those who want simplicity. In this case, simply enjoying the story of the game. Some, such as yourself, will find that even on the standard difficulty it's very easy and therefore too simple. So up the difficulty to make the combat more interesting. 

[Retroguy]

37 minutes ago, BadgerFarmer said:

There's a difference between making things more difficult and more interesting.

Certainly- the additional moves make the combat more interesting though, they enable you to weaponise your dodges, get more crowd control, take advantage of status effects…

 

You just don’t need to use those things on the basic difficulty setting, if you don’t want to.

 

Ok, sure the normal difficulty setting could be more difficult, but you had the choice of either upping it, or using the moves to make things more efficient and varied.

[stir fry]

The combat generally comes down to inflicting lots of status I feel (and timely use of runics to interrupt enemies), in the previous game it was mostly stun but in Ragnarok it's stun, freeze and burn. The thing is you need to do this to interrupt some of the very high poise enemies in the game as they will just superarmour through a simplistic offense and take chunks off your health bar, but if they die quick then it's not necessary. Which is why higher difficulties are probably needed to find the right level of 'combat puzzle' to reward stacking the different statuses together.

 

imo no mercy mode offers the best balance, tho some of the difficulty spikes in it are really frustrating. It probably could do with a 'a little bit of mercy, but not much' between it and standard mode. 

 

I think I used almost everything except the hold r1 moves, which for the blades took far too long in most situations to really capitalise on the output (it's a very niche skill I think) and the one which creates icicles on the ground with the axe, cause it also took too long to come out I feel. Everything else I used a ton tho

[Pob]

3 minutes ago, stir fry said:

The combat generally comes down to inflicting lots of status I feel (and timely use of runics to interrupt enemies), in the previous game it was mostly stun but in Ragnarok it's stun, freeze and burn. The thing is you need to do this to interrupt some of the very high poise enemies in the game as they will just superarmour through a simplistic offense and take chunks off your health bar, but if they die quick then it's not necessary. Which is why higher difficulties are probably needed to find the right level of 'combat puzzle' to reward stacking the different statuses together.

 

imo no mercy mode offers the best balance, tho some of the difficulty spikes in it are really frustrating. It probably could do with a 'a little bit of mercy, but not much' between it and standard mode. 

 

I think I used almost everything except the hold r1 moves, which for the blades took far too long in most situations to really capitalise on the output (it's a very niche skill I think) and the one which creates icicles on the ground with the axe, cause it also took too long to come out I feel. Everything else I used a ton tho

 

Ha, I use those loads! The final hit of the blades one (which needs a couple of skill unlocks) does huge damage if you are able to stun-lock an enemy long enough to get there, or just launch them and use it to juggle them. Buddy Runic summons are useful for locking even the toughest enemies in place. The axe one does okay frost damage and has good range. It's a good follow-up to a backwards dodge if you're needing to back off. You can also continue to hold the button for multiple rakes.

 

The ones I always forget about are the switched stance combos with the axe, which is funny as I used those loads towards the end of 2018 - they did loads of damage in that game.

 

I totally get that if the combat is low-stress then why would you need to learn a bunch of new moves? But if you've not unlocked anything beyond the very first tier available then you're missing out on awesomely fun stuff like Serpent's Snare (sweeping enemies off the ground with the axe and chucking them through the air) and Hyperion Grapple (grappling an enemy towards you or grappling towards an enemy, and also slamming them down to the ground if they've been launched).

 

Since doing the first set of Muspelheim trials I've really got into the Frost Awaken for the axe (hold triangle). You can upgrade it to do it quickly on axe-recall or while sprinting, and the heavy attack with a frosted axe is just awesome and much safer than the standard running heavy attack. Before that my preferred approach was to set enemies alight with the equivalent blades move (whiplash) and other burn-dealing moves (the backwards dodge move and the heavy 'hold R2' uppercut), then switch to axe.

 

I'm also getting better at avoiding hits long enough to power up the weapons, and remembering to use the L1+Triangle power. Before I was focused on rushing in and getting those status effects applied before they drained away, and ended up taking hits as a result. There's a balance between keeping up the pressure and overcommitting.

[stir fry]

Oh yeah, the frost awaken stuff and quick whiplash thing you can do is also fundamental to breaking poise later on. Like constantly when a combo ends with the axe, getting used to the press triangle timing so your next combo starter is powerful and has high poise-break.

 

The one with the blade requires a bit more figuring out, but the timing is based off the controller rumble so if there's not lots of explosions already happening it's an easy enough cue as well. And it's even better than the axe when it comes to multiple mobs, you can do big line AOEs or multi hitting AOE

[Pob]

33 minutes ago, stir fry said:

Oh yeah, the frost awaken stuff and quick whiplash thing you can do is also fundamental to breaking poise later on. Like constantly when a combo ends with the axe, getting used to the press triangle timing so your next combo starter is powerful and has high poise-break.

 

The one with the blade requires a bit more figuring out, but the timing is based off the controller rumble so if there's not lots of explosions already happening it's an easy enough cue as well. And it's even better than the axe when it comes to multiple mobs, you can do big line AOEs or multi hitting AOE

 

To break poise (which I assume means stagger enemies and interrupt their attacks), is this based on some kind of unseen bar per enemy that can be maxed out, or is it just that certain moves have a 'stagger' metric and you need to use a move with enough stagger for the enemy you're fighting? Take Wulvers, for example - I pretty much assume that they can't be staggered or interrupted with the exception of runic attacks so just hit them until they bust out a move, being careful not to overcommit. 

[Floshenbarnical]

1 hour ago, Pob said:

 

To break poise (which I assume means stagger enemies and interrupt their attacks), is this based on some kind of unseen bar per enemy that can be maxed out, or is it just that certain moves have a 'stagger' metric and you need to use a move with enough stagger for the enemy you're fighting? Take Wulvers, for example - I pretty much assume that they can't be staggered or interrupted with the exception of runic attacks so just hit them until they bust out a move, being careful not to overcommit. 

 

I swear to god, Wulvers are the fucking worst. I killed a Valkyrie last night without taking a hit but Wulvers wipe the floor with me

[stir fry]

I should say, I've not played it since November so I don't have the best recall of all the mechanic quirks, but I think staggering enemies (not breaking posture and getting the 'glory kill' style animations) is just based on some hardcoded value of how hard the attack hits. The frost awaken stuff and the permafrost stuff seems guaranteed to do it. R1 spam, only against very weak enemies. 

 

What's less sure to me is the way the shield bash breaks through super armor, it seems some red circle attacks can be stopped by it and others not, might just be a timing thing and depending on how much charge you have.

 

I think one reason why people get shocked by the berserkers is cause the standard difficulty mode probably doesn't really teach a lot of the concepts well, while the berserks require it even on the easier difficulties

[hub2]

Was a bit 'meh' on this at the start but its started growing on me. I spent yesterday evening doing the Atreus Ironwood chapter from start to finish and it gripped me for the 90 minutes or so it took to complete.

 

The whole section with the giant and her house was great, the conversations with Angrbora, the beautiful forest and ancient giant artifacts of epic scale, the walk though the golden grass before the poignant moment Atreus receives the 'marbles', the exhilarating run as the fox at the end, the first (I presume) Valkyrie fight of the game upon his return.

 

Hope the game continues to have chapters as good as that.

[HarryBizzle]

Nice try, Yak. This forum is for humans.

[Pob]

I've spent the last 10 hours or so on The Crater. It's really surprising what a step up in level design it is from the rest of the game. It reminds me of the more experimental follow-ups Arkane made for Dishonored 2 and Prey after they learned a shitload from making the main game. Except this is just sitting there in the initial release as an entirely optional area towards the end of the campaign. I'm not complaining at all - it's reminded me of why I loved GoW 2018 so much and it's given up a tonne of awesome loot that has opened up my build options massively. Every time I think I should leave the Crater and return to the main story I find myself pulled back in to explore some other avenue or tackle a boss.

 

It's particularly funny that the plot reason for exploring the Crater is to what happened to some random dude I'd never even seen before who dramatically sacrificed himself during a big story cut scene:

Spoiler

Then, when you find him and ask him how he survived the fall, he says "I rolled. Okay, see you later!" and it's over! Absolutely brilliant.

 

I'd love to know the story behind it. Was it a late addition that was unexpectedly finished in time? Was it crafted by some elite squad of designers as its own little thing?

[Ry]

So I battered through this in a week or so. Loved it overall but thought the opening 10 or so hours were pretty dull

Spoiler

The elves section with the rebounding axe was just boring and tedious as fuck

 

I only have a couple of end game missions to do and explored and did every side mission I could. Currently on 38 hours and maybe 2-3 hours gameplay left. 

 

The skill tree looks good for people who like to experiment but I stuck with the same moveset for nearly all my playtime. Same with equipment. Had a maxed out tank of a build and was destroying everyone. Only berserkers gave any real challenge. 

 

End game spoilers/discussion:

 

Spoiler

No idea where the next game is going. Guon? Gan? Who are they talking about? I couldn't remember. Are we staying in this realm? Looks like it but I hope not. Is Kratos being worshipped as shown on the murial?

 

I liked the story and love Kratos, although I prefer him as a pure badass vengeance filled hate monster. Arteus got on my tits sometimes and his face annoys me lol.

 

The one thing I will say about this and the last game, they don't have anything close to the epic spectacle and scale of battles we had in the PS2 games and GoW3. (Except for a couple of moments in this game)

 

 

[teddymeow]

@Ry

 

Spoiler

Gna is the newly crowned Valkyrie Queen after the defeat of Sigrun last game. She's one of the hardest bosses to beat in Ragnarok.

 

[Ry]

7 minutes ago, teddymeow said:

@Ry

 

  Hide contents

Gna is the newly crowned Valkyrie Queen after the defeat of Sigrun last game. She's one of the hardest bosses to beat in Ragnarok.

 

 

I can't remember fighting her. 

 

Spoiler

Is she part of the end game quest?

 

[teddymeow]

6 minutes ago, Ry said:

 

I can't remember fighting her. 

 

  Hide contents

Is she part of the end game quest?

 

 

Spoiler

Yeah, I'm delaying it as long as possible.

 

[Floshenbarnical]

Picked up where I left off last night after taking a week to play GoW 2018.

 

What a fucking rush. I took a brief pause before starting the finale, to go complete some Dwarven favors and other labors, and probably have 25 hours of playtime left - I still have the last Musphelheim enemy, haven't even visited the cold version yet, have only killed one Valkyrie, haven't closed all the rifts for instance.

 

I think I was quite stoned when I played the first ten hours of Ragnarok, so I think I'm going to start over tonight. I loaded into a beautiful desert and freed a jellyfish, and then had no idea what had happened so far in the plot or what I was supposed to do next or why.

 

I'll tell you one thing though, it's fucking beautiful, a joy to play and like the first one it really gets going once you've unlocked some moves. I finally got to grips with switching combat stances in Musphelheim, can't wait to unlock it again  

 

There are games with better combat, there are games with better exploration. But there's something so magical about this game - so much effort went into dialogue, lore, continuity. The general banter is delightful and surprising. Brok and Sindri have this almost pantomimic comedy act going on, and I live for it. Completely out of place in this bizarre grimdark world full of miserable pricks, and exactly the right things to lighten the mood. Like, I started resentfully playing Ragnarok having played an hour of GoW and thought "well, here goes many hours of depressing bleakness" and then those guys showed up out of nowhere.

[NecroMorrius]

I’ve never understood the point of a skill/talent tree where you can unlock everything. 

[Pob]

2 hours ago, Moz said:

I’ve never understood the point of a skill/talent tree where you can unlock everything. 

To introduce techniques at a manageable rate and provide rewards for progression. 

[Chadruharazzeb]

'kin hell, this section with Paint Girl has gone on entirely way too long enough by half. Jesus Christ. 

[Thor]

5 minutes ago, Chadruharazzeb said:

'kin hell, this section with Paint Girl has gone on entirely way too long enough by half. Jesus Christ. 

Haha! That really is a marmite section. I fucking loved it.