God of War Ragnarok

[footle]

33 minutes ago, Thor said:

See, the first (2018) game got me interested in Norse mythology thanks to Mimir's tales, so much so I bought two books on the subject. I love the wider tales, and in this I love the callbacks to Kratos' past, the wider characters and machinations, fucking all of it.

 

What I also find interesting is how many people love The Witcher 3, which is a far bigger game than this, has far more dialogue, yet the combat is "serviceable" at best. So why does that get a pass when this doesn't? I think I know why: in Witcher 3 you get to choose your dialogue options for Geralt, whereas in GoW they're just cut scenes. I reckon a lot of players hate control being taken away from them. 

probably because they’re different genres.

 

One has quests with choice and consequence.

One is a linear narrative with a couple of characters whose sole purpose is to spout disconnected lore at any conceivable downtime moment.

 

One has regions you can explore, that seem naturalistic.

One is basically a set of highly detailed corridors.

 

perhaps one of you “raganok has an amazing story” folk could explain why in some spoiler tags? (I’ve played and completed all the mainline games now, and don’t get it - the first of this reboot was far far better).

[Thor]

Are you ever not a dick*?

 

Also, I could reply with why I love the plot, but I've just about had enough of your disingenuous assertions. 

 

*Yes, I am aware of the irony, I do have some self awareness.

[stir fry]

The key differences between games is in structure, I think. 2018 is like a sort of Odyssean story, epic journey with personal stakes and the growth of the two protagonists is always the focus. The story inevitably goes into being about bigger things, but the big things are largely a backdrop to the more personal story, with their epic significance suggested via statues, murals and Mimir's myth telling. This is why the unbroken camera makes a lot of sense for 2018, because all of the stuff that isn't Kratos or Atreus is purely background. While in Ragnarok, you're onto the big picture stuff. The unbroken camera becomes a bit of a hindrance and the game is constantly contriving weird reasons to split the narrative apart to give some development to the massive cast the new game has, and the way it does it lends to a feeling of fragmentation.

 

I feel also like in Ragnarök the epic elements come to suffocate the main two characters a bit, all the prophecies and destiny stuff leads to very obvious conclusions which signpost their character development a million miles off. Which is also just sort of generally where Ragnarök lost me a bit, how characters overly vocalise what they are thinking and don't leave a lot to subtext. I wouldn't say 2018 was a master in subtlety either but the process for its characters felt somewhat more organic, even if parts might have been a tad rushed

 

The main thing is that the focus on Ragnarok itself ends up feeling a bit disappointing (to me anyway), cause it's sort of represented here as a bit more of a MCU caper and doesn't really live up to the imagined idea of what it would be in the first game. That's a hard thing to hold the developers to task over, cause it's not easy to live up to expectations like that. I also think that while in 2018 there was a lot of magguffin chasing it felt more like a vehicle to move the characters forward, while in Ragnarok it often feels like the characters are the vehicle to move the next chess piece into place, and personally I was not as invested by that approach.

 

Just my opinion, but it's why Ragnarok leaves me cold and I don't think it works as well personally

[Kevvy Metal]

1 hour ago, footle said:

perhaps one of you “raganok has an amazing story” folk could explain why in some spoiler tags? (I’ve played and completed all the mainline games now, and don’t get it - the first of this reboot was far far better).

yeah sure! 
 

 

Spoiler

🍆

 

[Girth Certificate]

56 minutes ago, stir fry said:

 

 

The main thing is that the focus on Ragnarok itself ends up feeling a bit disappointing (to me anyway), cause it's sort of represented here as a bit more of a MCU caper and doesn't really live up to the imagined idea of what it would be in the first game. 

 

 

 

haha, it's definitely a Marvel style scrap in an empty airport version of the war to end all worlds  

 

Kratos becoming 

Spoiler

a general leading an army of about 10 people

 

at the end made me chuckle.

[Kevvy Metal]

1 hour ago, stir fry said:

The key differences between games is in structure, I think. 2018 is like a sort of Odyssean story, epic journey with personal stakes and the growth of the two protagonists is always the focus. The story inevitably goes into being about bigger things, but the big things are largely a backdrop to the more personal story, with their epic significance suggested via statues, murals and Mimir's myth telling. This is why the unbroken camera makes a lot of sense for 2018, because all of the stuff that isn't Kratos or Atreus is purely background. While in Ragnarok, you're onto the big picture stuff. The unbroken camera becomes a bit of a hindrance and the game is constantly contriving weird reasons to split the narrative apart to give some development to the massive cast the new game has, and the way it does it lends to a feeling of fragmentation.

 

I feel also like in Ragnarök the epic elements come to suffocate the main two characters a bit, all the prophecies and destiny stuff leads to very obvious conclusions which signpost their character development a million miles off. Which is also just sort of generally where Ragnarök lost me a bit, how characters overly vocalise what they are thinking and don't leave a lot to subtext. I wouldn't say 2018 was a master in subtlety either but the process for its characters felt somewhat more organic, even if parts might have been a tad rushed

 

The main thing is that the focus on Ragnarok itself ends up feeling a bit disappointing (to me anyway), cause it's sort of represented here as a bit more of a MCU caper and doesn't really live up to the imagined idea of what it would be in the first game. That's a hard thing to hold the developers to task over, cause it's not easy to live up to expectations like that. I also think that while in 2018 there was a lot of magguffin chasing it felt more like a vehicle to move the characters forward, while in Ragnarok it often feels like the characters are the vehicle to move the next chess piece into place, and personally I was not as invested by that approach.

 

Just my opinion, but it's why Ragnarok leaves me cold and I don't think it works as well personally

…a lot of the points here are exactly why I think the narrative of this game is so good! 
 

I prefer its approach to alternative making it another road quest, and I don’t feel the one camera cut is hindering anything at all! 

[Droo]

If anyone is finished this on the ps4, let me know and I’ll buy it up.  

[Pob]

A ‘how close to the end am I?’ post:

 

Spoiler

 I’ve just got the Draupnir spear and am fighting my way out of Svartelheim 

 

[Kayin Amoh]

The game's huge. You've still got ages to go.

[HarryBizzle]

So I thought I was going to digest this and then write lots of thoughts about how I feel about it, but it turns out I've not got that much to say about it, and perhaps that's reflective of how I feel about it. It's a (mostly) expertly crafted game which doesn't have as much focus as the original. I think it tries to go for bigger is better and a lot of the time this falls flat. It feels like a blockbuster to the first game's much more stripped back and gritty feel.

 

Spoiler

They also make some really odd pacing decisions. I found a lot of Atreus' combat sections to be really tedious. His combat just isn't fun to me, and the bit riding a Yak was painful to sit through.

 

The game tries to give lots of characters a bit of spotlight and there's this totally bizarre bit where total non-entity, Bigvir, stands up on the flying boat and has this big solemn moment of self-sacrifice. The best archers in the world can't hit the dragon with their bows, but this 150kg man with his 30kg sword can jump off a boat and catch one of them on the way down. It was so weird that I just burst out laughing. This then loses what little impact it might have had when you find out about 10 minutes later that he survived it.

 

I thought the way they handled Asgard and the Asgardians was pretty good, but they lose any air of mystique or power that was built up in the first game with the Myth like retelling of their exploits in this huge, desolate world. Turns out they're just a messed up family with super powers.

 

 

I've played GoW 2018 twice, and I hardly ever replay games. I can see myself playing it again, actually. Not a chance with this one.

[sofasurfer]

I love this game and having finished it a week ago feel the post-game content is superb but...

 

The difficulty spike on some of the Berserker fights is unreal, even when I dropped it to story mode the fight where you take on three was ridiculous. I managed it but now am stuck at Gna. I know I should eventually beat her but how on earth can the easiest mode be so hard when I've spent hours on the game and know how to fight.

[Strafe]

I thought the plot was pretty weak in as much as (don’t click if you haven’t completed the main story)

 

Spoiler

Kratos or Atreus survive. I thought the whole game was pitching towards Kratos dying which would have had a huge impact (and they said this was the conclusion of the story). 
 

Granted, we lose Brok but it didn’t really have the same feel. As it is the whole thing felt pretty low stakes to me.

 

[footle]

We didn't even... (yeah, spoilers for the whole main plot)

 

Spoiler

Lose random guy who jumped out of a boat. Or actually run with the conflict between Kratos and Freya for longer than a third of the game.

All we really had was a drunk Thor, a typically manipulative Odin (made better than he deserved by Richard Schiff), and a Heimdall high on his own supply.

 

Then two young female characters who were massively underserved as "point Atreus in this or that direction" foils.

 

[Kevvy Metal]

This is the bumper tv season to the originals Blockbuster film, it keeps going and going and I can’t get enough of it, especially the open sections where you can explore and do a variety of side missions. 
 

It’s easily my GOTY, if it wasn’t for the obvious Elden Ring shaped elephant in the room. 

[Stig]

Just finished it and I loved it. The combat is great and I love narrative driven games so I didn't find it intrusive at all like some. There were sections that ground it to a halt which weren't great but overall it was epic and I enjoyed it alot.

[NecroMorrius]

Thought I would come back to report that yes, the two quests I said were bugged (“cure for the dead” and “conscience for the dead”) are definitely bugged and unpatched. There goes any chance of 100%/platinum. Perhaps they should have spent a bit less time copy and pasting monkeys and laughable exploding plants around vanaheim to hide the lack of content and a bit more time sorting out the dribble of content that IS there. Oh well. I always seem to get accused of making this stuff up but there we go. 
 

I’m about 30 hours in now and about 20 mins of the story has been interesting, the rest is aimless sub-MCU fanwank indulging the supporting cast, who shoot past “charming” straight into “annoying” territory. After 26ish hours the two leads have a conversation they could have had before a late title card and resolve all their differences, which only ever felt forced to begin with. Great. I did laugh when I found the training area on the way to the end of the game though. 
 

@stir fry’s post is excellent, really boils down the core issues with the structure and plot.

[Kevvy Metal]

1 hour ago, Moz said:

Thought I would come back to report that yes, the two quests I said were bugged (“cure for the dead” and “conscience for the dead”) are definitely bugged and unpatched. There goes any chance of 100%/platinum. Perhaps they should have spent a bit less time copy and pasting monkeys and laughable exploding plants around vanaheim to hide the lack of content and a bit more time sorting out the dribble of content that IS there. Oh well. I always seem to get accused of making this stuff up but there we go. 
 

I’m about 30 hours in now and about 20 mins of the story has been interesting, the rest is aimless sub-MCU fanwank indulging the supporting cast, who shoot past “charming” straight into “annoying” territory. After 26ish hours the two leads have a conversation they could have had before a late title card and resolve all their differences, which only ever felt forced to begin with. Great. I did laugh when I found the training area on the way to the end of the game though. 
 

@stir fry’s post is excellent, really boils down the core issues with the structure and plot.

Why the hell are you still playing this? 😂 

It’s a long game, so it makes zero sense to play through one that big a commitment, while not even enjoying it! 

[NecroMorrius]

Maybe it gets good after 40 hours? I mean it’s not bad bad, just a bloated and bland disappointment. It’s like a service station buffet on the way home from the fat duck. 
 

Also it costs SEVENTY POUNDS 

[Thor]

It amazes me that people keep playing something they clearly don't enjoy.

[Kevvy Metal]

9 hours ago, Moz said:

Maybe it gets good after 40 hours? I mean it’s not bad bad, just a bloated and bland disappointment. It’s like a service station buffet on the way home from the fat duck. 
 

Also it costs SEVENTY POUNDS 

More like going to the Fat Duck, and then going back to the Fat Duck only this time you’re eating there every night for a week. 
 

It’s also like calling Super Mario Bros 3 “bland and bloated” after playing Super Mario Bros and then turning one’s nose up at SMB3’s expanded mechanics, world building, and generous content via the new World Map. 

[rafaqat]

Maybe the MCU style big cast is a hint that we'll see side games with others as main characters.  Kratos and his BOY are probably worn out by now. TIme for a rest and explore other parts of the God of War Universe?

 

[JoeK]

3 hours ago, Thor said:

It amazes me that people keep playing something they clearly don't enjoy.

 

There's always the chance to be swayed!

 

I've still yet to finish the first one, so odds are remote me getting to the ending of Ragnarok.

 

Won't stop me from buying it to look at the shiny stuff though!

[Stig]

9 hours ago, Thor said:

It amazes me that people keep playing something they clearly don't enjoy.

Dude you've met the people of rllmuk. Continue to watch films and play games they hate.

[Thor]

14 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

Dude you've met the rllmuk. Continue to watch films and play games they hate.

Yeah but, watching a film is a couple of hours*, not forty. You have to be particularly thick-fucking-headed** to keep playing a massive game you're not enjoying. 

 

*I actually give up on movies I find particularly shit; Van Helsing, for instance. I also started watching the new National Treasure series on Disney+, but gave up partway through episode 2, because its shite. I'm not going to waste my time. So it truly baffles me when dickheads hate play/watch something. 

 

**Yeah, rllmuk in a nutshell, I know.

[Kevvy Metal]

If rollmuckers aren’t hate-fucking a 60-hour long game purely to write up an armchair Barry Norman post on why it’s the absolute worst, they’re travelling to the cinema to pay for then sit down and watch something as entirely predictable-as-to-what-you’re-getting as Avatar 2, only to walk out after 20 minutes in disgust that it was exactly the film it was always going to be. 
 

Bonus points for complaining about a game costing £70 then buying said game for £70 so you can complain it’s £70. 

[stir fry]

Is this the gow ragnarok thread?

[Triple A]

Finished rinsing 

Spoiler

The crater

and surrounding areas last night, and had a good time!  Not bad, open world game, not bad.  Don’t normally do that.  Now to finish the rest of the optional battles and end this thing!

Yes it’s worth £70.

[thesnwmn]

The distain for posters disliking a game you like and pleading with them to stop shitting on your new love is hilarious.

 

For the future I guess anyone playing a game and daring to make any criticism of it must specify if they are enjoying and elements alongside their complaints to avoid the ire of the card carrying super fans, or that they are simply hate playing it to fuck with said fragile fans.

[Fargo]

Finished this yesterday. Really enjoyed it overall even if it’s not as focused as the original. Some nice end game content too. 

[Pob]

If every game-specific thread was a pure love-in, how would people make the decision whether to buy or not? People taking the time to describe why they don’t like a game is a useful service and part of what makes this forum valuable.