God of War Ragnarok

[Stanley]

I’m willing to give God of War a pass because it has its roots in side scrolling games of old, and I’m happy to go along for the ride and to see the sights. They made a rod for their own backs though by introducing more free form exploration in 2018 with pseudo open world bits/hubs etc. 

 

That’s what makes The Crater so interesting because it demonstrates that when they do let you off the reins more it’s really refreshing and fun to explore. That level is to God of War what Bowser’s Fury is to Mario as a proof of concept for an open world setting in those games. I’d like

to see what they could with more of that, and if not fully open world by at least allowing you to traverse areas more freely and experiment a bit more. 

[HarryBizzle]

Just completed a great bit:

 

Spoiler

Kratos and Atreus hunting Garm.

 

I’m now back at the house and everyone says I can do some other stuff before going to see Freya.

Is that a point of no return or just them telling me to go and do some side quests?

[Kevvy Metal]

As an avid retro-gamer, I love me a bit of classic Tomb Raider and I love all those unique things it brings to the table… but comparing it to this is another massive apples and oranges scenario! 
 

It’s like saying OOT is crapper that TR2, because OOT has an auto-jump. They’re two different games trying to do two different things! 

[CrichStand]

32 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I’m willing to give God of War a pass because it has its roots in side scrolling games of old, and I’m happy to go along for the ride and to see the sights. They made a rod for their own backs though by introducing more free form exploration in 2018 with pseudo open world bits/hubs etc. 

 

That’s what makes The Crater so interesting because it demonstrates that when they do let you off the reins more it’s really refreshing and fun to explore. That level is to God of War what Bowser’s Fury is to Mario as a proof of concept for an open world setting in those games. I’d like

to see what they could with more of that, and if not fully open world by at least allowing you to traverse areas more freely and experiment a bit more. 

Pretty sure I can remember the original God of War games being heavily influenced by Tomb Raider. Lots of platforming, environmental puzzles, mythology etc along with the hack-em-up style play. The games were 99% gameplay back in those days.
 

I felt the exploration in GOW 2018 was pretty crap too. It’s strength was it’s combat and action, sort of like a “my first Ninja Gaiden” style game. It had snap and pace to it pushing you on. You can go for ages on this without hitting any combat or it just throws the odd easy enemy at you now and again.
 

What I feel this does best is almost sort of like role playing?!?!? It feels like the game progresses in real time when you’re playing, so it gives it a sort of sense of place and scale that ties in with the story. Problem is, it’s like when you think “oh it’d be amazing to be a rock star/footballer/astronaut” but the reality of their life is tedious everyday bullshit, that most people have to deal with anyway. That’s sort of what they’ve created with this game. Instead of just having all the cool exciting bits like headlining Glastonbury, playing in the World Cup, blasting into space......you play as Kratos paying his gas bill , having a shit, doing his weekly shop etc. 

[Stanley]

Yep and if we are to compare them, well the combat in the first Tomb Raider games was poor even back in the day, it was all about the puzzles and 3D traversal, that’s what made it a great game. 
 

If you go into GoW looking for Tomb Raider you are barking up the wrong tree. But as a lament for that type of game generally I’d say it’s fair comment. 

[CrichStand]

21 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

As an avid retro-gamer, I love me a bit of classic Tomb Raider and I love all those unique things it brings to the table… but comparing it to this is another massive apples and oranges scenario! 
 

It’s like saying OOT is crapper that TR2, because OOT has an auto-jump. They’re two different games trying to do two different things! 

I’d say they’re pretty comparable. Tomb Raider was basically the big mainstream blockbuster game back in the 90’s, just as this is the big mainstream blockbuster game of its era. They’re both adventure games that have exploration, platforming, puzzles, combat etc. Playing them back to back you can really see how times have changed.......and imo not for the better. In fact playing TR Anniversary puts in a mid point that shows you the whole progression many games have had over the last 20+ years.

[Stanley]

2 minutes ago, CrichStand said:

Pretty sure I can remember the original God of War games being heavily influenced by Tomb Raider. Lots of platforming, environmental puzzles, mythology etc along with the hack-em-up style play. The games were 99% gameplay back in those days.

I’d say they couldn’t be more different in terms of gameplay; TR was all about free form navigation of huge 3D levels and solving puzzles, with perfunctory gun play, and GoW was pretty much a left to right side scroller with pseudo 3D bits and slick melee combat, combos, powers, cinematic set pieces and bosses etc. like a modern Rygar or Castlevania (before it went all Metroidvania) it had platforming but in the old school sense. 

[Number 28]

In Tomb Raider you go to Greece and find a reference to a Norse god, so it's definitely set in the same universe.

[Kevvy Metal]

23 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I’d say they couldn’t be more different in terms of gameplay; TR was all about free form navigation of huge 3D levels and solving puzzles, with perfunctory gun play, and GoW was pretty much a left to right side scroller with pseudo 3D bits and slick melee combat, combos, powers, cinematic set pieces and bosses etc. like a modern Rygar or Castlevania (before it went all Metroidvania) it had platforming but in the old school sense. 

Yes, absolutely! 

 

29 minutes ago, CrichStand said:

I’d say they’re pretty comparable. Tomb Raider was basically the big mainstream blockbuster game back in the 90’s, just as this is the big mainstream blockbuster game of its era. They’re both adventure games that have exploration, platforming, puzzles, combat etc. Playing them back to back you can really see how times have changed.......and imo not for the better. In fact playing TR Anniversary puts in a mid point that shows you the whole progression many games have had over the last 20+ years.

No, not at all!

[CrichStand]

51 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I’d say they couldn’t be more different in terms of gameplay; TR was all about free form navigation of huge 3D levels and solving puzzles, with perfunctory gun play, and GoW was pretty much a left to right side scroller with pseudo 3D bits and slick melee combat, combos, powers, cinematic set pieces and bosses etc. like a modern Rygar or Castlevania (before it went all Metroidvania) it had platforming but in the old school sense. 

The original God of War games weren’t side scrolling?!?!? I remember them as being 3D and heavily influenced by Tomb Raider, just as much as other hack and slash games. But then TR influenced pretty much everything in the same way that the Souls games went on to do. And the Souls games were clearly massively influenced by TR themselves. And of course look how GOW is now compared to what it used to be. Another clear indication of how things have changed over the years, not necessarily for the better.

 

Anyway, this is getting away from the clear point I was making......

 

Tomb Raider a 90’s Blockbuster 3rd Person Adventure game - 99% gameplay, story was largely irrelevant. Incredibly compact intricately designed levels that seemed vast, but really were just designed phenomenally well. Proper skill based platforming. Proper puzzles that require thought. Very few items to collect, which made them interesting to find. You figure things out for yourself using your own intelligence. Gives you the freedom to do so.

 

God of War a 2022 Blockbuster 3rd person adventure game. A massive focus on story, which is probably 50% if not more of the “game”. Massive, humongous world that looks good but feels repetitive and in places copy/paste. Copy/paste tasks and absolutely insane amounts of stuff to collect, that’s plonked everywhere, and so quickly becomes a mindless chore. Fake platforming that requires absolutely no skill. Mindless “puzzles”, that the game essentially solves for you. You’re constantly told where to go and what to do as if you’re two sheets to the wind. Feels largely on rails.

 

These are the kind of things I’m talking about, which I think is pretty obvious. Original TR to modern TR. Original GOW to modern GOW. There’s a very clear progression and a big change in the focus of the games. Away from pure skill based gameplay and towards what is essentially an interactive movie.

[Thor]

The original God of War games are not side scrolling, but you have no control over the camera. 

 

In actual Ragnarok news, latest patch adds Photo mode.

[CrichStand]

Just now, Thor said:

The original God of War games are not side scrolling, but you have no control over the camera. 

 

In actual Ragnarok news, latest patch adds Photo mode.

 

Eaxctly, just like Tomb Raider, which also used the “cinematic” camera angles, that GOW took on.

[Kromeo]

3 hours ago, Thor said:

In actual Ragnarok news, latest patch adds Photo mode.

 

"Don't forget the rule of thirds, father!" 

[Stanley]

6 hours ago, CrichStand said:

The original God of War games weren’t side scrolling?!?!? I remember them as being 3D and heavily influenced by Tomb Raider, just as much as other hack and slash games. But then TR influenced pretty much everything in the same way that the Souls games went on to do. And the Souls games were clearly massively influenced by TR themselves. And of course look how GOW is now compared to what it used to be. Another clear indication of how things have changed over the years, not necessarily for the better.

 

Anyway, this is getting away from the clear point I was making......

 

Tomb Raider a 90’s Blockbuster 3rd Person Adventure game - 99% gameplay, story was largely irrelevant. Incredibly compact intricately designed levels that seemed vast, but really were just designed phenomenally well. Proper skill based platforming. Proper puzzles that require thought. Very few items to collect, which made them interesting to find. You figure things out for yourself using your own intelligence. Gives you the freedom to do so.

 

God of War a 2022 Blockbuster 3rd person adventure game. A massive focus on story, which is probably 50% if not more of the “game”. Massive, humongous world that looks good but feels repetitive and in places copy/paste. Copy/paste tasks and absolutely insane amounts of stuff to collect, that’s plonked everywhere, and so quickly becomes a mindless chore. Fake platforming that requires absolutely no skill. Mindless “puzzles”, that the game essentially solves for you. You’re constantly told where to go and what to do as if you’re two sheets to the wind. Feels largely on rails.

 

These are the kind of things I’m talking about, which I think is pretty obvious. Original TR to modern TR. Original GOW to modern GOW. There’s a very clear progression and a big change in the focus of the games. Away from pure skill based gameplay and towards what is essentially an interactive movie.

They weren’t literally side scrollers, but it’s a fixed camera compared to Tomb Raider’s actual 3D levels which you can explore freely and adjust the camera. I think GoW’s lineage definitely lies in those arcade games of old I mentioned whereas Tomb Raider was really its own thing back then, I couldn’t really compare it to anything else apart from Indiana Jones, thematically, and perhaps Prince Of Persia with its more precise platforming. 
 

AAA games becoming more homogenous and like “interactive movies’ really began with Uncharted, and certainly the 2013 TR reboot took its cues from that. 
 

The lines have become more blurred now though, I agree, with seemingly every game being open world or pseudo open world with rigid traversal and platforming, crafting, loot etc. so you could say that modern GoW takes inspiration from a bit of everything, from Naughty Dog to Assassin’s Creed, to Dark Souls and beyond. 

But those original GoW and Tomb Raider games are quite different to one another IMO. 

[MattyP]

42 minutes ago, Stanley said:

AAA games becoming more homogenous and like “interactive movies’ really began with Uncharted, and certainly the 2013 TR reboot took its cues from that. 

They are certainly becoming much more formulaic I guess because they don't want to deviate to much from what will sell.

 

People like the same things and given the amount of investment needed for games they need to be selling in volume so it's a good job.

 

Personally why I really stay away from AAA games these days yes they have lovely audio visuals but they are almost all have the same elements in them. For me anyway no real innovation and padded out to 25-30 hours or more to give the illusion of "value for money". 

[Stanley]

29 minutes ago, MattyP said:

They are certainly becoming much more formulaic I guess because they don't want to deviate to much from what will sell.

 

People like the same things and given the amount of investment needed for games they need to be selling in volume so it's a good job.

 

Personally why I really stay away from AAA games these days yes they have lovely audio visuals but they are almost all have the same elements in them. For me anyway no real innovation and padded out to 25-30 hours or more to give the illusion of "value for money". 

I think it depends what you do with those elements. To use the same tired old example, BoTW takes inspiration from Skyrim and Assassin’s Creed, but it’s not dumbed down or merely copyist. 

[Kevvy Metal]

The original GOW games are obviously massively influenced by the side-scrollers of the NES-era. Yes, GOW doesn't literally side-scroll. But it's basically that kinda game - Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, Rygar - but reinterpreted into a 3D action game. It's also absolutely influenced by similar 3D brawlers such as Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden on the Xbox. It has nothing similar to Tomb Raider besides moving within a 3D environment and a touch of mythology in it's story tell. 

 

GOW 2018 was "modernised" in line with the other PlayStation studio games such as Uncharted, and GOD:R is literally just a bumper version of the 2018 game. 

[HarryBizzle]

God of War was intended to be a Greek mythology version of Onimusha, which was itself a Ninja version of Resident Evil.

I don't really see the through-line to NES side-scrollers, tbh.

[Kevvy Metal]

24 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

God of War was intended to be a Greek mythology version of Onimusha, which was itself a Ninja version of Resident Evil.

I don't really see the through-line to NES side-scrollers, tbh.

 

Literally Ninja Gaiden

[Thor]

9 hours ago, Kromeo said:

"Don't forget the rule of thirds, father!" 

 

Slightly more spoilery...

Spoiler

 

 

"Stop Godsplaining, Kratos!!"

 

[Girth Certificate]

Quote

I’m getting sick of your lack of empathy for your wolves, Kratos

looool

[Stanley]

1 hour ago, HarryBizzle said:

God of War was intended to be a Greek mythology version of Onimusha, which was itself a Ninja version of Resident Evil.

I don't really see the through-line to NES side-scrollers, tbh.

Onimusha and particularly Devil May Cry are clearly influential, the latter giving birth really to the modern action game, and was itself also at one point intended as an RE game. But all those games I can trace a through line to earlier games such as the aforementioned Ninja Gaiden and Castlevania, Shinobi etc. Certainly don’t see Tomb Raider DNA in it myself.

[Benny]

Tomb Raider was never a blockbuster back in the 90s. That was games like Metal Gear Solid.

 

It was more of a surprise hit from a smaller studio that kickstarted the big push into making third person perspective action adventure exploration games. Like Super Mario 64 did for the 3D platformer collectathon.

 

Anyway, that sense of dangerous vertigo from exploration in Tomb Raider now pretty much lives on in the Dark Souls games to an extent. I've never liked the "push forwards to progress" set pieces of Uncharted and the Tomb Raider reboots when they're doing that faux peril stuff in them. There was a specific period of time after Uncharted that had started studios off on smoothing any sense of anxiety out of the traversal in action adventure games, and placing it instead into gunfights. Which in itself heavily borrowed from the third person gun battles that started in games like Rogue Trooper and became popular in Gears of War.

 

As is often the case, games have changed and evolved over time from all sorts of different sources as trends have changed, and Ragnarok looks to be the logical end cul-de-sac of many design trends from the previous generation, no matter how much of the mutton is dressed as lamb, so it's not surprising how it plays.

[Jamie John]

Just took down the last Hateful. Hooo-eeee, whattacunt.

[PaB]

42 hours on the clock now and still dicking  around 

Spoiler

In the cauldron. 

Think I still have a few chapters left to do. 
 

bloody great game. Right up my strasse

[MansizeRooster]

The post-game is very strong indeed.

 

[Girth Certificate]

Is the human kid Atreaus befriends meant to look like BoTW Link?

 

I know they want to set it apart from the originals but it would have been badass if the original god of war theme kicked in at some point when you were whupping arse.

 

or this

 

 

[cohen205]

2 hours ago, Girth Certificate said:

 

 

I know they want to set it apart from the originals but it would have been badass if the original god of war theme kicked in at some point when you were whupping arse.

 

 

 

 

 

I would have loved it if this happened. I was half expecting it to happen at certain points, but it never did

[HarryBizzle]

You know your body dysmorphia is getting bad when you’re sat thinking Kratos is looking a bit small. 

[PaB]

And done. Well, am in the post game now anyway. Marvellous stuff. The last couple of hours is just bombastic.