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djbhammer
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20 hours ago, Stoppy2000 said:

 

Don't think I'll bother with FM23 either - what even are the new features?

 

Champions league licensing seems to be one of the big ones. First CM/FM game I haven't bought day one since I started playing Championship Manager 2!

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I don’t think I’ve ever bought the new FM thinking ‘I wonder what new stuff there will be, I hope it’s not disappointing’. It’s just one of those games that gets bought every year day one because it gets played almost every day.

 

I’ve been lucky enough to get a code so been playing a lot the last week or so (still Beta of course) and it’s as glorious as ever. The European competition licenses feel great for those games and the only other real big change I can see is the Squad Planning, which if you are anything like me is where you will spend hours, days even assessing options and how to improve even marginally.

 

It also runs smoother on my aging laptop but I’m due a new one next month am looking forward to the bump in quality when have it running there.

 

Another year, another FM, still absolute quality!!

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Squad Planning is broken.

 

Supporter Profile does not work.

 

Defensive AI is the worst its ever been, alongside goalkeepers.

 

New randomisation in the engine is broken.

 

"Improved manager AI", as stated as a headline feature, does not exist.

 

Very happy to show examples of these issues. I do not trust SI to fix them this yearm they can't even program a scarf for your AI manager to scale with your height. It literally clips through your waist if you set it to tallest.

 

Sorry @MardiganX but it is a terrible product.

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The squad building has never really been addressed and is always poor, as is the problem of AI managers buying based on reputation. The match engine always look horrible, with awful animation (despite it always being mentioned as getting an update) and there is so, so much padding that adds nothing to the game. I tried putting some time into FM21 when Epic gave it away, and it took hours just to move forward a single game month - even when I wasn't doing much of anything outside of matches (I would always avoid all the media side, because that is useless). And this was despite the game telling me it was 4 or 4.5 speed.

 

They won't change though, nor do they really need to because there will be plenty of people ready to white-knight the game no matter what happens. I read stuff about one of the features last year (something to do with being able to influence a nation's youth development over time?), that Miles had said pre-release was one of the main new things, and on release the actual implementation was so woeful it would never actually do anything. Yet people still played it down.

 

It's a shame, because especially in winter I like the idea of playing a football management game, but going back to old versions is hard because it does lack some QoL stuff (FM07 was the last one I put a lot of time into, I think), but the newer games are just so overstuffed, they are a real chore to get through.

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Most of your issues @Dark Soldier I’ve not found at all. There isn’t anything I’ve encountered that feels bugged or broken. It all just feels like Football Manager.

 

Im interested to know what you feel is wrong with the Squad Planner? I view it as a different way of managing the squad depth and identifying weaknesses but most of that I do myself outside of the game as I build my knowledge of what this year leans towards.

 

I delegate certain things sometimes and at other times go right into the detail of those things. FM for hit a peak several years ago and has basically coasted but I’m not sure what they could add or change now that would change the essence and the game. 80% of it in terms of letting you get into the tactics and mechanics of football is flawless. The other 20%, which is where most of the issues appear to be, for me is just noise. The stuff it needs to do well it does really fucking well and that’s always been the case. The fact it’s refrained from developing some kind of Ultimate Team add-on to generate more cash and has instead always focussed on the core of the game gets taken for granted. I have no doubt the full release will improve a lot of the things people might be unhappy with right now, but for me it’s just another year another perfect window into the magic and madness of football :)

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The Squad Plannwr is a lesser implemented Squad Depth screen. It's the exact same thing but you can add a player rather than them automatically listed.

 

If you have players on trial, they are not added. So if you're a smaller team trying to snap up multiple free transfers via trial, which gives you deeper star ratings and coach feedback, you have to add each individual player one by one by one to every single position. If you then ask your assistant to list players by rating, saving you several minutes of manually moving players one by one again, they disappear completely. It is In general a largely pointless rework of an already existing screen.

 

Lollujo, one of.the big four FM streamers  discovered this on stream and it basically meant he had to go via the old school route of comparing players, rendering the screen pointless. If you've experience with the game anyhow you'll have targets in mind and know which youth are worthwhile in the space of a two minute glance.

 

The one area it would actually improve,  International Management due to the huge player pool...well it doesn't exist. You do not have that screen for it. 

 

I could go on and on and on and as mentioned above provide examples for everything wrong with this, but if you cannot see the problems with defence at the very least in the ME you must have a blessed beta mate. It's utterly shambolic. 

 

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I’ve played 4 months of a game with Man Utd and the only bug (albeit monumental) is the fact I’ve won every game apart from a single draw away to Fulham. Ok, so it’s not a bug and there is no way I’m that good but apart from a couple of instances where long balls seem to completely defeat my centre backs I can’t say I’ve seen anything concerning. 
 

What is the ME and AI doing that is a problem or a better question, what is it not doing that you would expect it to do? Maybe I’m numb to what are actually issues with the game and I chalk these things down to ‘that’s football’ far too much. The only thing that matters though is nothing is detracting from my enjoyment of the game.

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In fact from here it shows the match that made Benjy ragequit the game:

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1643185157?t=02h35m27s

 

Below is the precise moment of the defending, I've seen this countless times, as have other streamers. Alongside them standing still as attackers are oncoming, other players in other roles just wandering miles away from where they are supposed to be with no rational logic etc

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1643185157?t=02h47m14s

 

Below another example from another streamer. Multiple reports of this across the forums. System doesn't matter, but its more common with three at the back.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1643564945?t=04h19m03s

 

The ME is an absolute mess defensively. Going forward, it can play some great stuff, but its a joke in areas.

 

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International management has been a chore for years and is something that they really need to overhaul.

 

You get one massive national pool of players for all age group sides which is a fucker to maintain, your scouts do fuck all to recommend players to consider calling up, it's far too easy to remove a player due to injury or suspension and forget to call him up to the next squad, you can't configure any training whatsoever, coach ratings for players often disappear if they're not in a squad, you still have B teams but can't ever arrange a friendly for them, your contract doesn't have a duration like it does with the club sides, and the whole thing just still feels cobbled together.

 

Which is frustrating because of all the stuff they do get right with it, like having the correct competitions and formats for all the underage tournaments and whatnot. It's a fun diversion from the daily club grind but boy do you have to work for it.

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I do expect there's a great deal of technical debt in a game like this. Layers upon layers of interlocking systems that are very difficult to unpick. I remember someone saying after CM4 came out late and in a half finished state that they never want to do another full rewrite of the game again, and it doesn't surprise me.

 

But it does leave a lot of stagnant elements and leads to releases bereft of anything that you could call a genuine new feature. It's like recent FIFA and PES (bless) having the same basic career mode for five years then sticking some utterly pointless cutscenes over the top of it and calling it a revamp. Features like that you know only exist because they don't have to do much beneath the surface.

 

Though I think the worst thing in the game remains that someone thinks it's acceptable to display a league table on a widescreen display with the club names in 10 point font on the left, points on the right, and about three quarters of a screen's worth of whitespace in the middle.

 

I gripe because I like the game, not because I don't. 

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just installed 23...

 

i see the exact same bullshit stats as last time...harry kane a better passer of the ball than erikson!?!:seanr: seriously!?! what is this shit.

Firmino better defensive stats than some defenders...sure...

 

Honestly...i'm sick of this, its the exact same stats for the utd team as two season ago!...do we even have scouts watching us? and Martinez...hahaha, oh my god. I just dont believe thats what the ajax scouts thought based on performances!

 

guess i should actually try the game

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I think pretty much every year there is a groundswell of discontent at old bugs never being addressed, but they have some solid defenders there (unlike in the game, <chuckle>) and all buy it anyway. 

 

The reality is that SI aren't going to change until a serious competitor comes along - and I just don't see that happening.

 

Not only that, some of the really old problems (AI squad building once current players have retired) hasn't been addressed in, well, ever - but the reality is the vast majority of players probably just pick a big team, play a few seasons, start again and so never actually see the issues that crop up on a very long-term save.

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  • djbhammer changed the title to Football Manager

Playing it on Xbox on game pass.  I hated 22 because the controls felt like ass, really hard to navigate and I couldn’t get the match display how I wanted it, and even then it felt hard to do anything.  I don’t know if things have actually changed but it’s not been like that this time, but maybe I just got lucky figuring it out.

 

Anyway, I’m having fun with it, even though I’m cheating and playing Man City, and so far I’m trouncing everyone without much effort.  I was worried about going into my first “big” match outside of Liverpool in the charity shield or whatever it’s called now, against Chelsea- mainly because Haaland picked up a niggle that put him out for a few games just before.  But then the backup for him scored 7 goals in three games (Alvarez?) and I was genuinely thinking if I should put haaland back in.  Spoiler, I should (and did) as he’s scoring just as ridiculously as in real life.  I want to play as a smaller club once I’ve gotten used to it, but smashing Chelsea 5-0 with my star striker out was pretty nice.  I think the main thing that seems broken about playing as Man City is that you have decent options for replacements in most positions meaning you can swap out injured/tired players pretty easily, so I’ve bought some young prospects for down the line as you don’t really need to strengthen anywhere.

 

That said it’s made me realise how out of touch I am with football in general.  I have no idea who these fuckers are in most these teams and the games telling me some of them are worth nearly 100 mill on the transfer market.  I stopped really following the prem when my local team, Stoke, were relegated.  Even then, I thought I’d be able to recognise more of some of the big 4s first teams than I do.

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