The White Lotus - HBO & Sky

[barkbat]

Loved both. First season was funnier and more like HBO does American fawlty towers but well. Second season was darker and more dramatically satisfying, with some reall thrills and twists. Both utter masterclasses in screenwriting and acting.

[FishyFish]

Spoiler

Rita Coolidge has quite the handgun skills!

 

Not so hot on the “boarding a small boat” front though…

 

[Dapple]

I really enjoyed the second series, probably more so than the first. Maybe I need to rewatch series one though.

 

I ended up watching a couple of episodes twice. Not deliberately as such, just because I was flicking channels, came across an episode I'd already seen and got engrossed in the amazing performances. Was beautifully shot too.

[Bazjam]

3 hours ago, FishyFish said:

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Rita Coolidge has quite the handgun skills!

 

Not so hot on the “boarding a small boat” front though…

 

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I love how she went full Travis Bickle at the end.

 

[grounded_dreams]

Marvellous ending to another superb season for this show.

I only just realised that Greg is played by the same actor (Jon Gries) who was Rico Dynamite in Napoleon Dynamite.

 

[Dapple]

1 minute ago, grounded_dreams said:

Marvellous ending to another superb season for this show.

I only just realised that Greg is played by the same actor (Jon Gries) who was Rico Dynamite in Napoleon Dynamite.

 

He was good in the White Lotus, but he will never top this:

 

[schmojo]

Just finished s2, and it was great fun. Kept the overall themes of the first intact, but took them to some more dramatic places. The last episode had an awful lot of work to do with so many threads in the air, and I feel like a few two many got dropped, but it's an ensemble piece with plenty of red herrings.

 

As a broad show, and I can see how some of the characters and threads could be a little cartoonish and annoying, but it all makes for a big tragic tableau. Something for everyone — or a lot of people, at least.

 

I don't think it's a clever show, but it is entertaining. And it has a banger opening theme that I rarely skip.

 

 

[Petrousgyre]

Just finished up S2. Enjoyed it in the main, not quite as funny as the first and no-one quite like Armond this time round. 

 

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The two sets of couples didn't really go anywhere for me. In particular Ethan, played by Will Sharpe, did little with his role - perhaps the writing there was a bit flat too. Either way I'm not sure what we were meant to take away from their whole tangled nonsense of a plot, ultimately a bit muddled. On the other hand Belinda's story was great, even if it was a little obvious where it was all heading - real shame she won't be around in the third season.

 

[sofasurfer]

6 hours ago, petrolgirls said:

Just finished up S2. Enjoyed it in the main, not quite as funny as the first and no-one quite like Armond this time round. 

 

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The two sets of couples didn't really go anywhere for me. In particular Ethan, played by Will Sharpe, did little with his role - perhaps the writing there was a bit flat too. Either way I'm not sure what we were meant to take away from their whole tangled nonsense of a plot, ultimately a bit muddled. On the other hand Belinda's story was great, even if it was a little obvious where it was all heading - real shame she won't be around in the third season.

 

Belinda? Do you mean Tanya?

 

As for S2, loved it. Not sure if better than the first but enjoyed every minute, especially the sense of dread that built up over the season. Now I'm just trying to guess if they will carry on with a character from S2 appearing in S3. My bet is Valentina getting a promotion to another hotel in the chain. Loved her character.

[Petrousgyre]

No idea where Belinda came from. I do mean Tanya

 

edit: I do know - Belinda was the masseuse from Season 1 that Tanya led down the garden path. Stupid brain. 

[Pete]

This is incredible, while the first series was more consistent the good stories in two were better. I was annoyed to see the worst character from the first series return, but then I hadn't been paying attention and the pay off was worth it. When did other people twig?

Spoiler

I had my suspicions, obviously Hollander is always a bit of a rogue, but it wasn't until the opera that I connected the dots 

And with the prostitutes...

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Was getting the son the plan all along? And it's him they are talking about as they watch the boat in the first episode?

One of those shows I'm jealous of people who get to watch it for the first time. It's much cleverer than I first realised, a real treat.

[Sarlaccfood]

46 minutes ago, Pete said:

This is incredible, while the first series was more consistent the good stories in two were better. I was annoyed to see the worst character from the first series return, but then I hadn't been paying attention and the pay off was worth it. When did other people twig?

  Hide contents

I had my suspicions, obviously Hollander is always a bit of a rogue, but it wasn't until the opera that I connected the dots 

And with the prostitutes...

  Hide contents

Was getting the son the plan all along? And it's him they are talking about as they watch the boat in the first episode?

One of those shows I'm jealous of people who get to watch it for the first time. It's much cleverer than I first realised, a real treat.

Hmm I don’t think the girls were that cunning. But they definitely adapted as things went on. Fair play to them I love a good hustler!

[sofasurfer]

23 hours ago, Pete said:

This is incredible, while the first series was more consistent the good stories in two were better. I was annoyed to see the worst character from the first series return, but then I hadn't been paying attention and the pay off was worth it. When did other people twig?

  Hide contents

I had my suspicions, obviously Hollander is always a bit of a rogue, but it wasn't until the opera that I connected the dots 

And with the prostitutes...

  Hide contents

Was getting the son the plan all along? And it's him they are talking about as they watch the boat in the first episode?

One of those shows I'm jealous of people who get to watch it for the first time. It's much cleverer than I first realised, a real treat.

I twigged when Tanya said it was so nice socialising with people who 

Spoiler

have money and aren't after hers.

As for the two prostitutes I don't think the son was who they were talking about. They had arranged to meet his father on the first night. 

[krenzler]

So glad I got around to this. Lapped S1 up in one sitting. Sort of a clever cross between Fawlty Towers and American Beauty. Ready to dive into S2 and glad it has been renewed for a 3rd. I Just hope HBO gets to continue with shows like this and Succession after the whole Discovery thing has clasped its greasy hands..

[Sarlaccfood]

4 hours ago, krenzler said:

So glad I got around to this. Lapped S1 up in one sitting. Sort of a clever cross between Fawlty Towers and American Beauty. Ready to dive into S2 and glad it has been renewed for a 3rd. I Just hope HBO gets to continue with shows like this and Succession after the whole Discovery thing has clasped its greasy hands..

I’d be surprised if they didn’t, both these shows have definitely been popular and part of the zeitgeist. 

[Popo]

Demolished season one in a near single sitting yesterday. Just incredibly watchable. Brilliantly drawn characters who are thoroughly awful, broken people.

 

I think it’s a stretch to say it’s an examination of wealth and privilege per se, but the way money and power can be used to influence and take advantage and suppress other people in very real, relatable ways is perfectly voiced. 

 

Jennifer Coolidge is the MVP, although Murray Bartlett’s Armand is clearly the best character of the piece, and he’s brilliant in the role. 
 

Alrrady started season two and I’m loving that the tradition of the hotel manager being the biggest character is being continued. 

[Popo]

Ok I’m on episode 5 off season 2 now (and I think my 6th or 7th negroni) and it’s way more just about escalating drama than the first, but that’s not to say it’s any less engrossing. The characters are just as great/deplorable, and brilliant company. 

[Popo]

My favourite line of the whole show:

 

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Fucking the pianist in the chapel - “don’t worry, it’s been deconsecrated” 

 

[Popo]

9 hours ago, Popo said:

Ok I’m on episode 5 off season 2 now (and I think my 6th or 7th negroni) and it’s way more just about escalating drama than the first, but that’s not to say it’s any less engrossing. The characters are just as great/deplorable, and brilliant company. 

Wirh two episodes of season 2 remaining, I think on reflection this is wrong - while the first season is about how the wealthy exploit others, season 2 is about exploitation more generally. 

[Majora]

12 hours ago, Popo said:

 

I think it’s a stretch to say it’s an examination of wealth and privilege per se.

 

 

Not sure I agree with this. I'd say season 1 is very specifically about white, rich privilege. 

 

I finished it a few days ago (not started season 2 yet) and I thought what they did with the newlywed bride to make this point was interesting.

 

Spoiler

For most of the season I think you're meant to sympathise with her. She's married an asshole, it's slowly dawning on her that she actually doesn't like him and he doesn't seem to have any empathy or insight into her career worries. 

 

Then, in the final episode, as you see her story intertwined with those of the minority characters, you start losing sympathy for her. These are people facing real prejudice, with real problems, in a place full of rich white privileged people who will never truly understand.

 

As her story crosses with the salon manager's in the final episode, you lose sympathy for her even more. Like, boo-fucking-hoo. You have options, girl. You never have to work a day in your life again if you don't want to. And if your marriage isn't working you'll still get a decent payout from it, even if you did sign a prenup which means you won't necessarily be set for life. Or you can just leave and carry on being a mediocre journalist. Or stay and still carry on trying to be a mediocre journalist. It's a whole lot of self-pity, pontificating and naval gazing from a position of privilege. And of course, at the end, she chooses to maintain that privilege despite the fact she clearly can't stand the man.

 

Seeing that contrasted against the salon manager at the end, a character who genuinely does not have much in the way of choice or privilege or the time and energy to endlessly naval gaze, puts everything that has come before in perspective. And yet she is the person constantly expected to go above and beyond and provide a shoulder to cry on for the rich white guests despite all that.

 

[Popo]

And that’s season 2 done! Crikey! It all goes a bit deep state conspiracy in the end, not sure I’m entirely on board with that. Although, as the ultimate expression of exploitation,

 

Spoiler

The Sicilian mafia is about as high a power as you can reach.

 

Absolutely cannot wait for the third season!

[LaveDisco]

On 30/12/2022 at 10:03, Majora said:

 

Not sure I agree with this. I'd say season 1 is very specifically about white, rich privilege. 

 

I finished it a few days ago (not started season 2 yet) and I thought what they did with the newlywed bride to make this point was interesting.

 

  Hide contents

For most of the season I think you're meant to sympathise with her. She's married an asshole, it's slowly dawning on her that she actually doesn't like him and he doesn't seem to have any empathy or insight into her career worries. 

 

Then, in the final episode, as you see her story intertwined with those of the minority characters, you start losing sympathy for her. These are people facing real prejudice, with real problems, in a place full of rich white privileged people who will never truly understand.

 

As her story crosses with the salon manager's in the final episode, you lose sympathy for her even more. Like, boo-fucking-hoo. You have options, girl. You never have to work a day in your life again if you don't want to. And if your marriage isn't working you'll still get a decent payout from it, even if you did sign a prenup which means you won't necessarily be set for life. Or you can just leave and carry on being a mediocre journalist. Or stay and still carry on trying to be a mediocre journalist. It's a whole lot of self-pity, pontificating and naval gazing from a position of privilege. And of course, at the end, she chooses to maintain that privilege despite the fact she clearly can't stand the man.

 

Seeing that contrasted against the salon manager at the end, a character who genuinely does not have much in the way of choice or privilege or the time and energy to endlessly naval gaze, puts everything that has come before in perspective. And yet she is the person constantly expected to go above and beyond and provide a shoulder to cry on for the rich white guests despite all that.

 

 

I think you've summed up why I didn't like season 2 as much. Everyone is so awful, but there's no stark contrast like in the first season. The assistant, who kinda played the same role was just the worst person in the show, and she leaves without learning anything or any consequence, she had no arc, and the show bordered on rooting for her. Feel it lost it's teeth this season.

[schmojo]

6 hours ago, LaveDisco said:

 

I think you've summed up why I didn't like season 2 as much. Everyone is so awful, but there's no stark contrast like in the first season. The assistant, who kinda played the same role was just the worst person in the show, and she leaves without learning anything or any consequence, she had no arc, and the show bordered on rooting for her. Feel it lost it's teeth this season.

 

I feel the opposite way about the same thing. She's privileged, and her peril isn't real. She has opportunities to make positive change, but she doesn't. She's self-indulgent and out of her depth, but in the end nothing really touches her and she goes on her merry way giving nary a shit. She's obliviousness incarnate.

 

 

[LaveDisco]

3 hours ago, schmojo said:

 

I feel the opposite way about the same thing. She's privileged, and her peril isn't real. She has opportunities to make positive change, but she doesn't. She's self-indulgent and out of her depth, but in the end nothing really touches her and she goes on her merry way giving nary a shit. She's obliviousness incarnate.

 

 

Yeah that’s spot on actually. 
 

[Timmo]

Loved this. Are we confident that

 

Spoiler

Greg wouldn’t get the money? I’m guessing the circumstances would stop it? I hope so

I wonder what gay sex act a main character will walk in on next season - we’ve had rimming and anal - fisting?

[Sarlaccfood]

37 minutes ago, Timmo said:

Are we confident that

I feel like things are vague enough that it can go either way based on if the writer wants to keep it going or not. There’s probably enough 

Spoiler

suspicious circumstances that an investigation would quickly implicate him as it took so much organising on his part, his ‘prints’ would be all over everything. Or that he’s now rich enough to make any investigation go away with some brown envelopes. 

 

[barkbat]

My thinking is that
 

Spoiler

Greg will be on the run from the Mafia. Even if the gay guy who survives is tracked down, the whole thing looks like a massive double cross with a dead mafia guy among the bodies. It's such a bizarre series of events that the 'obvious' answer is Greg killed everyone to have ALL the money. I reckon he'll turn up in Series 3, moneyed up to the eyeballs, going by a new name, and terrified of being whacked.

 

[Kingpin]

Just finished both seasons in quick succession. I liked both a lot - they are different enough to be interesting to watch back to back. S1 was better for me - more complete and consistent perhaps. 
 

I think my favourite thing about them might be the sound of the show. The theme is great, the Hawaiian instrumentation in particular. I just found myself noticing the sound mix a lot. Loved that. 
 

Speculation about S3 after the end of S2:

 

Spoiler

We won’t see Greg again, we’ll get a little nod or reference suggesting he’s been offed by the Mafia.

 

[Majora]

I wasn't sure about season 2 a couple of episodes in. It was fine but the dialogue was nowhere near as sparkling or laugh out loud funny as season 1. I ended up binging the last 4 or so episodes of season 2 in a row though. It really did turn into excellent TV by the end.

 

My heart was in my mouth pretty much the entirety of the final episode. Tanya's storyline felt a bit superfluous early on but by the end it blossomed into something utterly compelling. The Sopranos would have been proud of the way it all played out.

 

I'd say Season 1 is much funnier and more thematically rich and complex. Season 2 is darker, more tense and more plot driven. It also has a significantly more satisfying final episode. Surprisingly different in the end. 

 

The tonal shifts in the show are quite something. Especially in the second season, it really does dance around all over the place in terms of tone yet it never ever feels jarring.

 

I have to agree about the sound being incredible throughout. The music, the recurring motifs, and just the general audio design. Honestly amongst the best I've ever heard. It would much a much lesser experience if the audio design wasn't of this quality. It's a beautifully directed show too. Stellar stuff all around.

 

 

[Majora]

Season 2 won best limited drama at the Golden Globes and best supporting actress for Coolidge.

 

To be honest, while watching I had pegged Aubrey Plaza as a bigger frontrunner for most of the season. Or Meghann Fahey, who I thought gave a masterclass in facial expressions and providing depth and complexity to a character she could easily have played as a bimbo airhead. But as soon as I saw the final episode I knew Coolidge was likely going to scoop it.

 

As always, her acceptance speech is great but contains a spoiler so I'll stick it in tags

 

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