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Microsoft's approach to next gen -your thoughts?


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1 hour ago, JPL said:

What are the figures for PS5 vs Series? I didn’t think MS we’re giving that info out anymore.

 

1 hour ago, Hewson said:

 

its almost like MS have cannibalized their own sales for ...something...defo not replacing their entire existing xbox s blade azura system for Series X...surely not...

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7 hours ago, Shimmyhill said:

 

Haven’t Sony just closed down all their innovation studios? they seem to be doing a old Skool MS and going Halo/Gears/Forza on us…

This is true, Japan Studios has gone. However just looking at the hardware. The pad adds something different as will PSVR2. Think Sony/Nintendo are more likely to try new ideas out.

 

Not saying there is anything wrong with MS strategy at all. It's just business as usual which is fine if that is what you want. Having had a Series X for a while it was a great bit of hardware and ran everything superbly well. QR was great. However since using the PS5 it's clear that it lacked a spark of next genness (for want of a better word). You know that feeling of new something different. Just picking up the pad on the PS5 and playing through Astrobots Playroom felt new different. The experience brought a smile to my face as I felt different elements interact with me via the pad. I know it's not exactly hugely revolutionary or anything but it gave me something I didn't have before on a console. Like PSVR2 will down the line.

 

The XSX felt like a PC upgrade in comparison. Which is where MS are going. Iterative updates on hardware and GamePass. Not a bad thing. But personally like enjoying new toys that do something new with hardware as I found out. PS5 and my Oculus Rift S both scratch that itch nicely for me. :)

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I got my hands on a PS5 first, it felt like a new thing.  The dashboard was shiny, new and different - the controller was IMO a game changer, and playing through Astro's Playroom really cemented the changes they had put in.  I mean, it looks like a prop from "Honey, I blew up the console" but I guess that's just a side effect.

 

The Series X on the other hand, which I got later, was a really nice unboxing.  I appreciated the nice way in which the packaging was done and the box folded open to unearth this box, but when I turned it on it was like "oh, it's just like the Xbox One" and the controller didn't do anything new.  Great that it's got all this power and makes my previous generations of games play faster, but it felt far less next gen than the PS5

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It feels very corporate  , grey, dull and boring. In an industry full of vibrant colour , constantly pushing the boundaries of visual , aural and interactive arts.

 

it inspires nobody

 

They used to have games like jet set radio. Now the big announcements come from pc ports.

 

If you’ve got a pc the Xbox is irrelevant, which is very sad indeed.

 

I want one but I’ve got a hardon for new consumer electronics despite them.

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I think Microsoft holds the best hand for the long term. But to be honest I expected them to pull out all the stops with the Series and they... kind of didn't... yet.

 

Sony is just being Sony, but also trying to become a Disney/Marvel-thing. That's incredibly risky, while Microsoft is simply coasting along until they are the Netflix of games and nobody can ignore them when all their multi-year dev backburner titles start rolling in. (Arguably, Game Pass is already at that level right now, but I think it needs to unleash the exclusives to give the idea people are missing out, instead of opting for a different payment scheme.)

 

Sony could just ape Game Pass by rolling PS Now into PS Plus, of course. But I'm guessing they'll hold out for that until the very last moment. It's the Sony way.

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6 minutes ago, Cyhwuhx said:

Sony could just ape Game Pass by rolling PS Now into PS Plus, of course. But I'm guessing they'll hold out for that until the very last moment. It's the Sony way.

Even if they wanted to they couldn’t do this in anywhere near an effective time scale to bring it up to parity with Game Pass. 
 

Microsoft's multi-pronged strategy has taken years to get it into the shape it’s in now, and it’s still evolving. 
 

I think the gaming landscape four to five years from now will look very different from where it is today, and discussing who’s sold the most consoles or games will be like discussing who has sold the most CD’s and DVD’s. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Even if they wanted to they couldn’t do this in anywhere near an effective time scale to bring it up to parity with Game Pass. 
 

Microsoft's multi-pronged strategy has taken years to get it into the shape it’s in now, and it’s still evolving. 
 

 

 

PSNow’s PS4/5 library is basically the same size as Microsoft’s entire Game Pass offering, and they’ve been offering a streaming option for longer than Game Pass has existed. All that’s really missing is the wherewithal to go “subscription first” on their firstparty and major third party releases. It’s not like they’ve been averse to giving away indie games at launch, that’s been a good reason to keep Plus going for about as long as I’ve had it.

 

I guess I’m not sure what the barrier is supposed to be. The puzzle isn’t “how” but “why not”.

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3 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Even if they wanted to they couldn’t do this in anywhere near an effective time scale to bring it up to parity with Game Pass. 
 

Microsoft's multi-pronged strategy has taken years to get it into the shape it’s in now, and it’s still evolving. 
 

I think the gaming landscape four to five years from now will look very different from where it is today, and discussing who’s sold the most consoles or games will be like discussing who has sold the most CD’s and DVD’s. 

 

 

Sony's certainly not up to speed in terms of backwards compatibility, but I do think Sony is a bit closer overall than you're expecting. They're already moved to Azure (of all things) on the back-end and they've basically pioneered the (dev/pub facing) financial model underlying Game Pass with PS Plus. Apart from some QoL improvements, I think it's more the current mental/consumer payment model that keeps Sony from pulling the trigger, whereas Microsoft had absolutely nothing to lose based on the One generation.

 

Or in short: whereas Game Pass will be a increase in revenue for MS no matter which way you slice it, for Sony a similar move might actually result in a decrease. So MS will be praised by shareholders, while Sony will suffer quite the beating for the same move. It's just postponing the inevitable though.

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4 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

 

 

PSNow’s PS4/5 library is basically the same size as Microsoft’s entire Game Pass offering, and they’ve been offering a streaming option for longer than Game Pass has existed. All that’s really missing is the wherewithal to go “subscription first” on their firstparty and major third party releases. It’s not like they’ve been averse to giving away indie games at launch, that’s been a good reason to keep Plus going for about as long as I’ve had it.

 

I guess I’m not sure what the barrier is supposed to be. The puzzle isn’t “how” but “why not”.

Backwards compatibility is where they are really stumbling with PS3 games not being able to run natively on PS4 or PS5 at all never mind any enhancements than MS’s approach offers - I guess in the long term it won’t matter once no one is interested in the PS3 library, but for now it’s the only way to play a chunk of the PS Now library, and it’s inferior. 
 

But then you have PC, as all Xbox games come out day one there now, so there’s that hurdle to overcome and, yeah, the big one - all day one releases added to the service. 
 

What does Sony’s steaming service use - is it a combination of actual PS3 and PS4 chipsets? 

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4 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Backwards compatibility is where they are really stumbling with PS3 games not being able to run natively on PS4 or PS5 at all never mind any enhancements than MS’s approach offers - I guess in the long term it won’t matter once no one is interested in the PS3 library, but for now it’s the only way to play a chunk of the PS Now library, and it’s inferior. 
 

But then you have PC, as all Xbox games come out day one there now, so there’s that hurdle to overcome and, yeah, the big one - all day one releases added to the service. 
 

What does Sony’s steaming service use - is it a combination of actual PS3 and PS4 chipsets? 

Running natively will sound like playing dvds in 4-5 years 

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Just now, sid said:

Running natively will sound like playing dvds in 4-5 years 

Point being, whether it’s streamed or played locally, it needs the hardware to run it - having one solution to all of that is much more sensible, and offers enhancements to older titles. 

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I somehow knew this would end up being a console X vs console Y topic... :D It was just a matter of time.... :)

 

I think MS are exploring a new way of delivering content (GamePass) which is great although long term it will be interesting to see if they can sustain this model? I guess their ultimate aim is to kill off other competition and dominate the market. As MS usually tries to do. Hopefully things will remain balanced.

 

 

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I've essentially been out of the console space from the middle of the 360 era until the last couple of years, mostly playing game on PC. Our daughter was bought a OneS and I ended up playing on it a bit. Then we got gamepass and started playing a lot more on the S but also PC Gamepass and streaming to my tablet.

 

Traded in the One S for a Series S, as £80 why wouldn't you.  Loading shouldn't be a killer next gen feature but it really is.  Dipping on and out games is so much better (although perversely the last bit of friction due to source switch and logging in could be remove by Kinect's "Xbox on")

 

Um, so, yeah MS next gen strategy of Gamepass + cheap but still nextgen hardware + play anywhere suits me.

 

The PS2/OGXBox/GameCube/Dreamcast era was the last time I felt compelled to own all the consoles.  There are so many great games on everything these days.

 

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10 minutes ago, MattyP said:

I somehow knew this would end up being a console X vs console Y topic... :D It was just a matter of time.... :)

 

I think MS are exploring a new way of delivering content (GamePass) which is great although long term it will be interesting to see if they can sustain this model? I guess their ultimate aim is to kill off other competition and dominate the market. As MS usually tries to do. Hopefully things will remain balanced.

 

 

I don't think it's a versus topic at all, more or less an indication of why Microsoft is going with this approach. Mind you, I'm not 100% on-board with MS. Like with PS Plus, you'll see a lot of games creep into Game Pass which are essentially going to either have DLC, MTX, additional subscriptions, or a combination of all those baked in. You'll get the games for "free" but essentially you can still pay for whatever in-game.

 

It's a more cynical version of the Devolver E3 presentation and a more palatable version of Stadia: "pay for a subscription to be allowed to spend money".

 

Of course, we're not fully there yet and especially right now there are more than enough full-fat games to sink your teeth in (Yakuza series anyone?), but look at what EA (or Ubi) are doing with their subscription service (or rather, all their games) and it really shouldn't be hard to figure out what's going to happen in the long run.

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Subscription leads to MTX is one future.

 

Subscription means there’s less need for MTX is another: if you’ve enough subscribers, and the success of your subscription service depends on retention, lots of MTX on top is perhaps not a great thing. Depends on the retention impact.

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33 minutes ago, Boozy The Clown said:

As long as Sony and Nintendo keep releasing those top tier games, Gamepass ain't killing off Jack shit. 

 

Then again....

IMG_20210623_091247.jpg

Indeed. It's perceived value. Even though most won't play half of the games on GP they are there. As soon as MS start digging in and securing the next FIFA/CoD then well it might not be so rosy for everyone else. And then they will keep hammering it home. 

 

MS practically giving GPU away was indeed a master stoke to start the ball rolling... now its gathering momentum. 

 

Not great IMHO. Don't want to loose the variety with have. Both in hardware and software that uses that unique hardware. It will stifle innovation IMHO.

 

I expect all the other companies will need to up their game a bit. In the end it maybe good for the industry. Just hoping we don't get one player that is too dominant. 

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14 minutes ago, footle said:

Subscription leads to MTX is one future.

 

Subscription means there’s less need for MTX is another: if you’ve enough subscribers, and the success of your subscription service depends on retention, lots of MTX on top is perhaps not a great thing. Depends on the retention impact.

 

Why choose for less money if you can choose for more money? As long as there are shareholders to please, the need will be there.

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Content is King in this industry (just look at Nintendo) and at the moment Sony have more exclusive new shiny things than MS.  That will change soon (I have brought an X to play flight simulator) and I think it will be a difference conversation in 6 months once the internal studios start churning out title. 

 

However, what will be interesting is what kind of quality bar MS maintain;  Sony's model is around mega hits which have huge budgets and massive amounts of polish to justify the price.  MS may be slightly more around having X number of "great" games every month so may set the bar lower.  MS wants to be the Netflix of games with gamepass which is great, but Netflix is home to a huge amount of average content. 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, tobert said:

However, what will be interesting is what kind of quality bar MS maintain;  Sony's model is around mega hits which have huge budgets and massive amounts of polish to justify the price.  MS may be slightly more around having X number of "great" games every month so may set the bar lower.

 

Tbh, part of the appeal with MS's future slate is that they don't all need to be Blockbuster titles that last for 40 hrs+.  Gamepass gives them the opportunity to do that.  They might even manage to make a significant % of games with out guns or vehicles.

 

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33 minutes ago, tobert said:

Content is King in this industry (just look at Nintendo) and at the moment Sony have more exclusive new shiny things than MS.  That will change soon (I have brought an X to play flight simulator) and I think it will be a difference conversation in 6 months once the internal studios start churning out title. 

 

However, what will be interesting is what kind of quality bar MS maintain;  Sony's model is around mega hits which have huge budgets and massive amounts of polish to justify the price.  MS may be slightly more around having X number of "great" games every month so may set the bar lower.  MS wants to be the Netflix of games with gamepass which is great, but Netflix is home to a huge amount of average content. 

 

 

I agree content is king and that’s why Sony have the momentum going into this gen, and rightly so.

 

I also get your point about MS wanting content on Gamepass and I think in the short term, they’ll get stuff on there quickly that isn’t necessarily to the standard of some of Sony’s AAA games, but I’m hoping they’ve got a few studios working away on some real AAA content. Although that’ll take time, once it starts arriving it should become a steady stream.

 

All this talk of Netflix for games though. I’m not sure where it’s come from, as I doubt it’s something they’ve said themselves and it certainly won’t be the case that they’re aiming to fill Gamepass with loads of average content to the detriment of quality titles.

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1 hour ago, Boozy The Clown said:

As long as Sony and Nintendo keep releasing those top tier games, Gamepass ain't killing off Jack shit. 

 

Then again....

IMG_20210623_091247.jpg

That guy has literally just traded in all those shitty old 360 games for something worth playing 😂

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1 hour ago, Cyhwuhx said:

 

Why choose for less money if you can choose for more money? As long as there are shareholders to please, the need will be there.

Cf: why am I not paying a sub + extras on Netflix? Why is the unique selling point of Apple Arcade no MTX? Etc.

 

subscriber retention is the be all and end all: churn costs, and if I’m paying for a sub then necessary microtransactions on top on all the games, why not just play Fortnite?

 

of course, there’s nothing stopping MTX in any model, particularly if the entry cost is free or at least “not recurring”

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I'm fortunate enough to have both the PS5 and Series X. I only feel like i'm playing a "next gen" console when i'm playing my PS5. 

The different UI, different controller and PS5 only games are a huge factor. In my opinion, it's the superior console to the Series X but that's mainly due to shiny new console syndrome. For some reason i just don't see the Series X as a new console, it's just an upgrade in the same way that the One X was.

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I really don't see the strategies as similar as people think, the big shift in the industry over the last decade is that the console bit is now less than half of the industry due to the rise of other device types.

 

Microsoft see that big new audience and the hunger for the rapidly increasing production value of those games (many of which are increasingly multiplatform between consoles, PC and phones, like Genshin) as an opportunity for an end-run around the traditional console battle, by putting their games on those platforms through streaming, they can reach an audience many times the size of the whole console industry, not just their bit of it. You're going to make less per person because the audience isn't as wealthy or western-dominant as the average console-haver, but you can make up the difference on sheer numbers.

 

Sony's thing is to be a bit like Apple - they're all about making their bit the most lucrative bit of the industry, even if it's not numerically the biggest, iPhone is like 15% of the global market, but it's all middle-class westerners and where the best money for developers is. That's not to say they're going to become a closed platform, but they're going to try and draw those developers attention away from the larger market (Genshin makes a shedload on PS4) by making their smaller market more premium, rather than putting their stuff out there like Microsoft. The raised game prices aren't optional - they're the crux of the strategy.

 

The thing about it all is they're not really competing strategies, both have the potential to do very well as they're reaching different audiences.

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I just want to play the best possible games and every other aspect of this fetid cuntery can get to fuck. 

 

That's as far as I care about these corporate fucks any more. 

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I don’t understand the mindset of that graphic design beginner dude who took the effort to make a fake Gamepass advert on behalf of a zillion dollar company as if Microsoft don’t have their own marketing budget so he thought he would help out. Top tier.

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37 minutes ago, mikeyl said:

I don’t understand the mindset of that graphic design beginner dude who took the effort to make a fake Gamepass advert on behalf of a zillion dollar company as if Microsoft don’t have their own marketing budget so he thought he would help out. Top tier.

Welcome to console war meme world. Where have you been?

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