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Euro 2020 - Congrats Italy


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BBC predictions league for Euro 2020.  You know, if you gave me this list of people without the scores and asked me to predict who would be at the bottom, I wouldn't have been too far off.

 

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Lest we forget, Phil Jones has 27 caps.

 

Downing might just be the correct answer.  He was absolutely rubbish at club level, and yet still managed to get 35 caps, and was completely rubbish at international level too.

 

Carlton Palmer and Geoff Thomas weren't very good, but maybe the most notable thing about them is that they were played together in the centre of midfield, ahead of some much better players.  Thomas wasn't completely terrible - he was damned partly by association with Palmer.  He did however contribute one of the all-time worst misses for England.  For those who don't remember, he was put clean through on goal against France, had all the time in the world, enough time to slow down and consider his options.  The option he took was to put the ball fully 20 yards wide of the goal.

 

Jesse Lingard is a very unfair shout though.  He's always been pretty good for England.

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1 hour ago, Plissken said:

Actually, and I'm trying desperately to be delicate here and not stray into dodgy territory, a lot of those players have been black.  Walcott, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Lennon.  England managers have certainly had a "type", haven't they?  It's OK for Waddle, Le Tissier and Hoddle to stroll around the pitch but God help John Barnes when he decides to put his foot on the ball.

 

There has been a long-standing racism in the English academy system where players' positions and roles are concerned. Young black or biracial players are either placed out wide for pace, up top as a battering ram, in midfield as a destroyer, or at centre half alongside a white player to 'keep them focused'.

 

It's disgusting and Southampton in particular have profited from it over the years, although in their defence they have only made decisions on players that match preconceived ideas at other clubs, to best capitalise on their assets.

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32 minutes ago, Plissken said:

BBC predictions league for Euro 2020.  You know, if you gave me this list of people without the scores and asked me to predict who would be at the bottom, I wouldn't have been too far off.

 

image.thumb.png.734bbc1a7b7eda1ad715174c17dad940.png

 

A reminder Mark Lawrenson once lost a premier league season score predictor to a bot that put "1-1" for every single game.

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1 hour ago, redbloodcel said:

Conversely I find it baffling how Carrick ended up with so few. 

 

This leads me in nicely to the flipside of my earlier question. Which footballer was the most cruelly overlooked and should have earned a lot more caps in England colours? (AKA the 'would Matt Le Tissier have got more caps if he hadn't spent his whole career playing for Southampton when they were shit?' question.)

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2 minutes ago, Eighthours said:

 

This leads me in nicely to the flipside of my earlier question. Which footballer was the most cruelly overlooked and should have earned a lot more caps in England colours?

 

Got to be into Glen Hoddle or Matt le Tiss territory here. Steve Bruce too never got a look in whilst winning stuff at Utd every year.

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6 minutes ago, ckny said:

Joe Hart. 75 caps.

 

End of discussion really.


He was good enough for most of those appearances and there’s wasn’t much depth when it came to English goalkeepers. David James has 53 caps.

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1 hour ago, feltmonkey said:

Geoff Thomas

 

Whoa whoa whoa - not having this.  Geoff Thomas was more than deserving of the caps he received.  Let's just try to forget about that 'finish' v France at Wembley.....

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32 minutes ago, Eighthours said:

 

This leads me in nicely to the flipside of my earlier question. Which footballer was the most cruelly overlooked and should have earned a lot more caps in England colours? (AKA the 'would Matt Le Tissier have got more caps if he hadn't spent his whole career playing for Southampton when they were shit?' question.)

 

I for one found it absolutely disgusting that Antti Niemi never got a single cap for Scotland.

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35 minutes ago, ckny said:

Obvious shout is Steve Bruce, captain of Manchester United, never received so much as a call up.

 

Agreed, but his competition at the time (1988-1996) was Terry Butcher, Des Walker, Mark Wright, Tony Adams, Martin Keown and Keith Curle.  I certainly would put him as good as all those, but it is a very strong list of players.

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1 hour ago, Eighthours said:

 

This leads me in nicely to the flipside of my earlier question. Which footballer was the most cruelly overlooked and should have earned a lot more caps in England colours?

 

Stan Bowles.

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2 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

Lest we forget, Phil Jones has 27 caps.

 

Downing might just be the correct answer.  He was absolutely rubbish at club level, and yet still managed to get 35 caps, and was completely rubbish at international level too.

I think Phil or Stewart could take this, but I think you being harsh to say  Downing was rubbish at club level.  He was good at Villa and Boro player, shit at Liverpool though.

 

One other name to chuck in... David Batty.  Fucking awful England midfielder.

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2 hours ago, GamesGamesGames said:

 

There has been a long-standing racism in the English academy system where players' positions and roles are concerned. Young black or biracial players are either placed out wide for pace, up top as a battering ram, in midfield as a destroyer, or at centre half alongside a white player to 'keep them focused'.

 

 

So either out wide, midfield, forward or in defence? Damn those coaches & their pigeonholing

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24 minutes ago, Sexton Hardcastle said:

 

So either out wide, midfield, forward or in defence? Damn those coaches & their pigeonholing

 

I won't delete me being overly harsh on this, and I'll apologise for being brusque. I'm sorry.

 

As I'd said, it's about positions and roles. The black / biracial trainee can be an Evra but not an Irwin, a Sancho but never a Beckham, a Kante but not a Carrick, a Drogba but not a Muller. There are young black / biracial players whose mentality and skills tally with the white players listed above who are often shown the door because they don't fit the accepted stereotype.

 

Southampton, as I mentioned, were notorious for this to the point that it leaked a few years back. At their earliest academy age groups they would put young players into positions and roles based on those stereotypes, knowing that their eventual market value would be higher when shifted on. It's a really unpleasant practice and seeps into every aspect of the game.

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McManaman with only 37 has to be in with a shout of most overlooked. Kept out of the England first team by Anderton and Nick Barmby. A flying inside winger who would be revered in today's game. Double CL winner with Real.

 

And although I've never seen Nat Lofthouse play and couldn't begin to comment on how good he was, he did get 30 goals in only 33 games. That's pretty spectacular.

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1 hour ago, Timmo said:

Danny Mills, anyone? 19 caps. 


Didn’t Mills like Trevor Sinclair have quite an impressive 2002 World Cup campaign after coming for the injured Gary Neville pre tournament? I think he well earned a few of those caps. 

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25 minutes ago, Pants McSkill said:

McManaman with only 37 has to be in with a shout of most overlooked. Kept out of the England first team by Anderton and Nick Barmby. A flying inside winger who would be revered in today's game. Double CL winner with Real.

 

And although I've never seen Nat Lofthouse play and couldn't begin to comment on how good he was, he did get 30 goals in only 33 games. That's pretty spectacular.


A bit like Carragher, who despite being a Champions League winner and consistently one of the best performing CB’s in Europe was always behind the likes of the constantly crippled Woodgate and Ledley King, Upson and Wes Brown for the opportunity to be back up to Rio Ferdinand/John Terry. Then people wondered why he retired early to focus on his club career. 

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9 minutes ago, Oh Danny Boy said:


A bit like Carragher, who despite being a Champions League winner and consistently one of the best performing CB’s in Europe was always behind the likes of the constantly crippled Woodgate and Ledley King, Upson and Wes Brown for the opportunity to be back up to Rio Ferdinand/John Terry. Then people wondered why he retired early to focus on his club career. 

 

Carragher was never good enough to legitimately break into that competition though, although I'd have him over Upson any time. There's an argument that England shouldn't have made so many efforts to have King involved but, much like McGrath for club and country, he was just too good not to try.

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2 minutes ago, GamesGamesGames said:

 

Carragher was never good enough to legitimately break into that competition though, although I'd have him over Upson any time. There's an argument that England shouldn't have made so many efforts to have King involved but, much like McGrath for club and country, he was just too good not to try.

What he is saying though is he was overlooked for Upson, Wes Brown and two busted players.  Do you not think he is good enough to be ahead of those players?  Don't think he was ever going to get past Rio or Terry though.

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  • gospvg changed the title to Euro 2020 - Come on England!
  • gospvg changed the title to Euro 2020 - Congrats Italy

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